CTA 2013 budget

[mkohut]

True but the increased wait time and cutting around the edges at its service times are only exacerbating the structural issues problems with that route that you outlined. On the duplicate service point making the logical assumption that the heavier ridership is on the Central portion of the route, 85 and 226 are more an issue than the 225 since the 225 is a rush hour, and what is for Pace, peak direction only route.

With 225 running as a reverse trip trip as a 226 up to Harlem/Oakton..That gives 226 15 minutes frequently up to there.Compare to the frequently of 85A.People might be walking 2 or 3 blocks to caught it.

[jajuan]

Since Pace NW generally doesn't put route names on bus headsigns, can't really tell without archiving a whole bunch of paper schedules.

A similar anomaly is that the overhead signs at Cumberland Blue Line had 240 West Park Ridge and 241 Park Ridge, while the schedule names were "240 Dee Road" and "241 Greenwood Talcott" and the only sign on the bus was 240 or 241 Golf Mill.

Yes each division garage does seem to have its own practices in that regard,

With 225 running as a reverse trip trip as a 226 up to Harlem/Oakton..That gives 226 15 minutes frequently up to there.Compare to the frequently of 85A.People might be walking 2 or 3 blocks to caught it.

And you just proved my point about CTA creating an unending ugly cycle that only serves to further hurt this route when it already has structural problems in place that already hamper its service with the changing demographic of who's riding the route.

[mkohut]

With half of the route next to Forest Preserve Land 85a needs a Routing change. to attract more people.

[Busjack]

With half of the route next to Forest Preserve Land 85a needs a Routing change. to attract more people.

In CSL days, it only ran on Lehigh to Tonty.

As others indicated, there isn't much ridership out there; the route is just serving something in the city limits that would not otherwise be served.

[mkohut]

When you look at 85A it reminds me of the secret service cut on 81W.

It was combine with 69.Then 6 months later there was less frequently even when ridership went up

[Busjack]

When you look at 85A it reminds me of the secret service cut on 81W.

It was combine with 69.Then 6 months later there was less frequently even when ridership went up

Considering that none of the routes mentioned even justify an Optima, there are going to be cuts.

I'm sure that CTA's goal is not increasing ridership.

[mkohut]

At lease Pace try to adjust the route to get more ridership.

[trigger]

At lease Pace try to adjust the route to get more ridership.

Just a few years ago, middays on Pace 226 were half an hour apart. Now they are an hour apart.

And 226 stops running shortly after rush hour. And no Saturday service.

That's not a real alternative to 85A for the areas where 85A runs.

[mkohut]

Just a few years ago, middays on Pace 226 were half an hour apart. Now they are an hour apart.

And 226 stops running shortly after rush hour. And no Saturday service.

That's not a real alternative to 85A for the areas where 85A runs.

i was thinking instead of going Caldwell go down Lehigh instead to Touhy.Then Touhy,then Carpenter/Central.It would provide service to the mall.

[Busjack]

i was thinking instead of going Caldwell go down Lehigh instead to Touhy.Then Touhy,then Carpenter/Central.It would provide service to the mall.

225/226 don't go down Caldwell, but Central/Carpenter, as I mentioned before.

And I am pretty sure that anyone who goes to Village Crossing drives there. Probably also to Pointe Plaza (Walmart and Fresh Farms).

[BusHunter]

You know what would be interesting is to run the 290 down either Central or Lehigh, They would then have a Howard Red line to Jeff Pk Blue line connection. From what I've seen of the 290, alot of riders seem to get off at Milwaukee to catch the 270 Sb. Between Milwaukee and Cumberland Blue line, ridership seems weaker. So why not just run half the buses down to Jeff Pk and the other half to Cumberland. They could just run the #226's to oakton Skokie yellow line. I don't know about the #225, but some trips could serve the Howard industrial area. What could happen is that you use one route to do three routes worth of service. This would be modeled somewhat like the 250 that serves O'Hare and Davis "L" stations. Ridership on the #250 does seem to be doing well. So maybe it would be worth it to explore this option.

[mkohut]

You know what would be interesting is to run the 290 down either Central or Lehigh, They would then have a Howard Red line to Jeff Pk Blue line connection. From what I've seen of the 290, alot of riders seem to get off at Milwaukee to catch the 270 Sb. Between Milwaukee and Cumberland Blue line, ridership seems weaker. So why not just run half the buses down to Jeff Pk and the other half to Cumberland. They could just run the #226's to oakton Skokie yellow line. I don't know about the #225, but some trips could serve the Howard industrial area. What could happen is that you use one route to do three routes worth of service. This would be modeled somewhat like the 250 that serves O'Hare and Davis "L" stations. Ridership on the #250 does seem to be doing well. So maybe it would be worth it to explore this option.

You have to compare frequently.270 is 20 minutes,226 once a hour,85A every half hour. during off peak.That being said which bus would you take?

[Busjack]

You know what would be interesting is to run the 290 down either Central or Lehigh, They would then have a Howard Red line to Jeff Pk Blue line connection. ...

Another thing hashed in the North Shore restructuring was sending 290 to Rosemont instead of Cumberland to connect with the other Pace services there. But that was dropped because the consultants said they would have to study how that affected Park Ridge, but apparently Pace cut off their contract.

As it is, with the various short turns being from Howard to either Central/Fargo, Overhill, or Park Ridge Metra, Pace must consider the west end to be the weak one.

[BusHunter]

The east end of the 290 is rich with ridership, so why not pair something that's struggling with something that's stronger. I'm actually surprised how much ridership the 250 gets along lee st. in Des Plaines. I don't think the former route did that well, I believe it was the 221, that only ran the standard weekday schedule and now the service is daily and doing well.

[mkohut]

Another thing hashed in the North Shore restructuring was sending 290 to Rosemont instead of Cumberland to connect with the other Pace services there. But that was dropped because the consultants said they would have to study how that affected Park Ridge, but apparently Pace cut off their contract.

As it is, with the various short turns being from Howard to either Central/Fargo, Overhill, or Park Ridge Metra, Pace must consider the west end to be the weak one.

The main reason to Park Ridge would be when its going back to the garage.Central/Fargo is like 225 going there in rush.The consulant probably didn't realize 240 and 241 off peak got stop due to low ridership.

[Busjack]

How the blank did this become a Pace topic?

The east end of the 290 is rich with ridership, so why not pair something that's struggling with something that's stronger. I'm actually surprised how much ridership the 250 gets along lee st. in Des Plaines. I don't think the former route did that well, I believe it was the 221, that only ran the standard weekday schedule and now the service is daily and doing well.

It was 220 O'Hare-Glenview. Again cut as a result of the North Shore restructuring because the people in Evanston wanted a direct route to O'Hare. The part on Greenwood and Central Road between Golf Mill and Glenview was canceled with no replacement.

The main reason to Park Ridge would be when its going back to the garage.Central/Fargo is like 225 going there in rush.The consulant probably didn't realize 240 and 241 off peak got stop due to low ridership.

The consultant was 9 years ago. The cut was maybe 2?

[mkohut]

How the blank did this become a Pace topic?

It was 220 O'Hare-Glenview. Again cut as a result of the North Shore restructuring because the people in Evanston wanted a direct route to O'Hare. The part on Greenwood and Central Road between Golf Mill and Glenview was canceled with no replacement.

The consultant was 9 years ago. The cut was maybe 2?

I might be off on that.But,the point is not much ridership.Too try to put this back to a CTA topic 68 doesn't have that much ridership to Park Ridge.

[Busjack]

I might be off on that.But,the point is not much ridership.Too try to put this back to a CTA topic 68 doesn't have that much ridership to Park Ridge.

It used to run only to Ozark-Ozanam. (Try that tongue twister.) Probably uses the street in front of the Metra station only as a turnaround, as to any practical effect.

[jajuan]

It used to run only to Ozark-Ozanam. (Try that tongue twister.) Probably uses the street in front of the Metra station only as a turnaround, as to any practical effect.

I remember that. One of the examples of Pace handing the bulk of service in one area over to CTA given the 68's half hour non peak headways compared to the current one hour intervals on the 209 in non peak hours.

[Busjack]

I remember that. One of the examples of Pace handing the bulk of service in one area over to CTA given the 68's half hour non peak headways compared to the current one hour intervals on the 209 in non peak hours.

Going back to ancient history (such as what I mentioned in connection with Park Ridge), that probably happened when Nortran abolished the 260 series of routes, according to Bill V, in the mid to late 1970s. That was replaced by the 209 to Schaumburg, which was cut back to DesPlaines when 208 was extended to Schaumburg in the 2005 North Shore restructuring. Essentially 209 remained as another "we have to serve this segment" route.

Bill doesn't indicate when 68 was extended to Park Ridge.

[mkohut]

Going back to ancient history (such as what I mentioned in connection with Park Ridge), that probably happened when Nortran abolished the 260 series of routes, according to Bill V, in the mid to late 1970s. That was replaced by the 209 to Schaumburg, which was cut back to DesPlaines when 208 was extended to Schaumburg in the 2005 North Shore restructuring. Essentially 209 remained as another "we have to serve this segment" route.

Bill doesn't indicate when 68 was extended to Park Ridge.

I believe it was done in the 70's

[jajuan]

Speaking of Bill V. and in light of our recent discussion of the 85A, his research brings up that the 85A and a previous iteration of the defunct 92W West Foster used to be one combined route 85A Central/Foster between the years 1955 and 1970.His site also states that the present form of the 85A is what was left upon restructuring after what we now call the Blue Line was extended from Logan Square to Jefferson Park.

[Busjack]

Speaking of Bill V. and in light of our recent discussion of the 85A, his research brings up that the 85A and a previous iteration of the defunct 92W West Foster used to be one combined route 85A Central/Foster between the years 1955 and 1970.His site also states that the present form of the 85A is what was left upon restructuring after what we now call the Blue Line was extended from Logan Square to Jefferson Park.

The Dan Ryan Edition map (i.e. pre-Jefferson Park terminal) reflected the 85A Central-Foster route. That was when there was one 92 Foster-NW Highway route.

Of course, there are the old CTA photos of 3 modes of CSL meeting at the triangle in Gladstone Park (Milwaukee-Foster-Central) with a Milwaukee street car, a Central trolley bus and a N. Central gasoline bus.

See the scan of that portion of the map below:

[jajuan]

The Dan Ryan Edition map (i.e. pre-Jefferson Park terminal) reflected the 85A Central-Foster route. That was when there was one 92 Foster-NW Highway route.

Of course, there are the old CTA photos of 3 modes of CSL meeting at the triangle in Gladstone Park (Milwaukee-Foster-Central) with a Milwaukee street car, a Central trolley bus and a N. Central gasoline bus.

See the scan of that portion of the map below:

Dan Ryan map scan.jpg

I can see from the picture that pre-Jefferson Park, the 91 ended all its trips at Milwaukee/Imlay as did the 56, meaning there was no 56A in those days from the looks of it.

[Busjack]

I can see from the picture that pre-Jefferson Park, the 91 ended all its trips at Milwaukee/Imlay as did the 56, meaning there was no 56A in those days from the looks of it.

In general, a lot of stuff got rerouted to or cutoff at Jefferson Park when the station opened. There sure isn't any 19X bus between Edgebrook and Logan Square now, for instance. By the same token, the extension to Rosemont resulted in 90 and 90N being split, and presumably what became 209 being from Harlem.

I got confused in that it is now 86 that goes to Imlay, instead of 91.

The Lawrence and Central trolley buses also ended late 1969-early 1970, although there is some debate whether that was because the bus lines were to be rerouted into the Jefferson Park terminal.