CTA 2013 budget

[Busjack]

...

That would probably be the best route to go Unless,Emanuel with Hollywood friends will pay for the entire extension.

The Hollywood friends are only interested in contributing to the campaign fund.Getting back to budget,a private entity isn't interested unless it can make money (like the Skyway or Parking Meter concessionaires quadrupling rates), but other than transit oriented development (not likely in Roseland, but maybe possible), no one has suggested how private capital can make money out of an L extension. They haven't suggested, for instance, a conductor going through the train at 95th and picking up an extra $4 fare (similar to what they did on the Evanston Express until mag card fare collection). And, unlike O'Hare, riders could evade that by crowding the remaining buses.

[BusHunter]

Yeah if CTA doesn't hurry up with a rail extension for the Dan Ryan, Pace is just going to start up a BRT corridor and that will be the end of that. That idea is very attractive and alot cheaper they could even build branch lines to Matteson via I-57 and maybe one on the Bishop Ford to maybe Lincoln highway and still have money left to spare. What would be really attractive would be mid line stations just like the "L". If the I-55 and I-90 corridors are a success don't be surprised if this becomes reality.

[mkohut]

Yeah if CTA doesn't hurry up with a rail extension for the Dan Ryan, Pace is just going to start up a BRT corridor and that will be the end of that. That idea is very attractive and alot cheaper they could even build branch lines to Matteson via I-57 and maybe one on the Bishop Ford to maybe Lincoln highway and still have money left to spare. What would be really attractive would be mid line stations just like the "L". If the I-55 and I-90 corridors are a success don't be surprised if this becomes reality.

I wouldn't count on neither happening in the near future.Both I-55 and I-90 got grants.Plus 57 and Bishop would have to be set up with fixing the shoulders for the buses.Then the issue of Pace would need more buses.Then the study for how much ridership they would get.

[BusHunter]

As far as ridership problems on the #85A I counted 7 riders NB one rush and maybe 10-12 south. Waiting 20-25 minutes for service is just killing it and the #54A. The #85A is so slow, I find the #226 is quicker. The #88's not doing too good either. Alot of people just walk to the hospital from the Blue line. I wouldn't doubt soon the #54A is just going to run to Oakton-Skokie Yellow line from out south. That's what happens when you start cutting.

CTAWeb has an interesting picture on flickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/ctaweb/9526900594/ of an artic on the #88, how times have changed.

[Busjack]

CTAWeb has an interesting picture on flickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/ctaweb/9526900594/ of an artic on the #88, how times have changed.

I wonder about the run number. Does it indicate that it wasn't assigned there? But then what would explain the roll sign?

[BusHunter]

I wonder about the run number. Does it indicate that it wasn't assigned there? But then what would explain the roll sign?

It has an Archer sticker on the windshield. According to the caption the bus did go in service, they must have had a blast going down Gale St.

[Busjack]

It has an Archer sticker on the windshield. According to the caption the bus did go in service, they must have had a blast going down Gale St.

I didn't notice the sticker. Archer would have made more sense than FG.

[mkohut]

Found this in the Sun Times.

Which Jean-Claude Brizard calls Emanuel a control freak.

Which again points something we all ready knew.

That Claypool is Emanuel puppet.

http://www.suntimes.com/22110063-418/mayor-emanuel-needs-to-let-his-managers-manage-former-cps-ceo-says.html

[Busjack]

Found this in the Sun Times.

Which Jean-Claude Brizard calls Emanuel a control freak.

Which again points something we all ready knew.

That Claypool is Emanuel puppet.

http://www.suntimes.com/22110063-418/mayor-emanuel-needs-to-let-his-managers-manage-former-cps-ceo-says.html

Saw that on the noon news.

Maybe more relevant to this topic is while Emanuel is a control freak on what he can control, he doesn't have enough votes to control the RTA, so the best he can do is have his delegates put a roadblock to the RTA setting either 2013 or now 2014 budget marks, even though the RTA has a statutory duty to do so by certain deadlines. All over a marginal amount of discretionary money.

The other thing stated by Brizard is that Emanuel didn't consider the degree the CTU could push back in an organized manner. Obviously, CTA riders don't have that ability.

[jajuan]

Found this in the Sun Times.

Which Jean-Claude Brizard calls Emanuel a control freak.

Which again points something we all ready knew.

That Claypool is Emanuel puppet.

http://www.suntimes.com/22110063-418/mayor-emanuel-needs-to-let-his-managers-manage-former-cps-ceo-says.html

Yes true. Emanuel had that reputation even during his time as a congressman as well as his time as the President's chief of staff. The DC buzz was few in Washington were going to miss him after his last departure from federal government employment to run for mayor here because of his supposedly tight grip on which congressmen, cabinet members and other Washington officials got regular access to Obama and how much access it was going to be. At any rate, egomaniacs tend to be control freaks.

[jajuan]

Saw that on the noon news.

Maybe more relevant to this topic is while Emanuel is a control freak on what he can control, he doesn't have enough votes to control the RTA, so the best he can do is have his delegates put a roadblock to the RTA setting either 2013 or now 2014 budget marks, even though the RTA has a statutory duty to do so by certain deadlines. All over a marginal amount of discretionary money.

The other thing stated by Brizard is that Emanuel didn't consider the degree the CTU could push back in an organized manner. Obviously, CTA riders don't have that ability.

He's one of the top examples of why RTA, CTA, Pace and Metra should no longer be separate operations. He exacerbates the inability of getting any transit cooperation between the city and suburbs for no good reason and unnecessarily fans the flames of mistrust the suburbs already have of the city on the transit front. As for his underestimating the CTU, that was obvious from day one when he stood in front of those news cameras shortly after he took the oath of office and said the teachers were getting none of the raise promised them in their last negotiations with Daley and there would be no discussion on the matter. It was also obvious when he went to Springfield to push through a change in the law in an attempt to hamstring their ability to strike and fight back against his inflated ego and his various manipulations of the public and some degree the local media by trying to paint the teachers as the sole bad guy when he himself was a root cause of the first strike in 25 years instigated by his need to play dictator with his ridiculous tough man theatrics in front of the news cameras instead of doing what a good mayor does and saying 'hey the city is broke and we all need to act like adults and work together to come up with something that's as fair as we can be on both sides in light of the city's current finances.'

[pudgym29]

Never before, in all my history of being on the internet, have I ever responded to so many posts with one reply {not even on the Chicago Beer Society listserv}.

Speaking of reduced service, more under the table cuts were snuck in for the August 25th pick.
- #N20 Madison Owl buses will no longer operate to Harlem/Lake and only between Washington/Stare and Austin in order to "better match ridership demand"
- #28 Stony Island will only operate on Hyde Park for Union Staion trips only; all other trips will resume operating on Lake Park to "match ridership demand on Hyde Park"
- #43 43rd will no longer operate to Stock Yards due to "low ridership to the Stock Yards"
- #85A North Central now ends a 1-1/2 hour at 9 pm to better " match customer demand"
- #88 Higgins will end 30 minutes earlier to "match customer demand"

Guess he thinks these under the table cuts are gonna be his key out. Just as he hit a brick wall and had a hard time with negotiating with the union to take care of his budget woes, his **** is gonna hit the fan with this as well. I doubt people in oak park are gonna take kindly to losing 24-hour service now that N20 no longer serves the green line. What's next? Scaling back N9, N60, and N62 from their nightly extensions as well isolating even more rail riders? Or maybe even ending N55 service to the MSI and instead operating between Garfield Green Line and St. Louis instead?

With the N20 instead of needing 4 buses overnite now only needing 3.

I'm useing this as a example that extra bus would be able to do 2 trips on Belmont.

It wasn't all that long ago that the last northbound 85A left JP at 12:30 am. It used to be the latest bus operating out of JP (except for some 85s going to Forest Glen and 81 of course). They've been hacking it back every few months. I wonder how long before there will be no buses (except 81) on the NW side after 8:00 pm?

As far as ridership problems on the #85A I counted 7 riders NB one rush and maybe 10-12 south. Waiting 20-25 minutes for service is just killing it and the #54A. The #85A is so slow, I find the #226 is quicker. The #88's not doing too good either. Alot of people just walk to the hospital from the Blue line. I wouldn't doubt soon the #54A is just going to run to Oakton-Skokie Yellow line from out south. That's what happens when you start cutting.

CTAWeb has an interesting picture on flickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/ctaweb/9526900594/ of an artic on the #88, how times have changed.

Way back - even before that photograph of #7006 was taken @ Jefferson Park (More about that later), one of my frequent manuevers when riding on a CTA Sunday Supertransfer was riding route #85A N. Central to Caldwell & Central to catch the route #84 Peterson, which usually ran the green w|white "New Look" buses numbered in the 500s [even though they were 7400s] (which I have learned made the Evanston bus runs). Yes, service on #85A was cut back in December 2012. I think it is matter of when, not if, this route gets cut back to weekday rush hours only.

The remark about #88 Higgins is accurate. You can find posts of mine elsewhere on this forum where I remark about riding a Opus Optima on this route. Yes, I have walked from Resurrection Medical Center to the Harlem Blue Line “L” station. I have ridden on it. There is hardly any ridership on the portion of the route on Canfield and Devon. If CTA could get permission to turn around a bus on the new driveway just north of Resurrection, it probably would (& should) cut back service to there.I respectfully suggest that it was ‘operator shenanigans’ to display "88 Higgins | Canfield" on that MAN #7006.

Notice that the bus is on the south portion of the Jefferson Park transit center. Even back in 1979, route #88 Higgins was in the north portion of the center. I suspect that bus went back southeast on route #56 Milwaukee.

(Back in 1979, the #56A N. Milwaukee was in the north portion - but the Nortran #270 Milwaukee to Golf Mill in Niles was in the south portion. So you had to check your paper schedule to see which was the next bus heading north on Milwaukee Ave. Yes - you could use your Sunday SuperTransfer on either route.)

[Busjack]

///which usually ran the green w|white "New Look" buses numbered in the 500s [even though they were 7400s] (which I have learned made the Evanston bus runs). ....

Unless something else was happening, that wasn't the case. The "albino" buses (white strip under the windows, instead of the pine one) were in the 9400s and 9500s and lent to the RTA until it got its 8000 pumpkin buses, and they were generally used in Oak Park (West Towns).

While they then went to Forest Glen and remained unpainted, usually they got a much bigger 9 put in front of the fleet number, both in front of the bus and inside on the destination sign door cover.

Evanston ran the usual pine and lime buses from North Park, except they had two digit fleet numbers (renumbered from whatever the prior series was, which did consist of low 7400s or 9600s).

[MetroShadow]

Yeah if CTA doesn't hurry up with a rail extension for the Dan Ryan, Pace is just going to start up a BRT corridor and that will be the end of that. That idea is very attractive and alot cheaper they could even build branch lines to Matteson via I-57 and maybe one on the Bishop Ford to maybe Lincoln highway and still have money left to spare. What would be really attractive would be mid line stations just like the "L". If the I-55 and I-90 corridors are a success don't be surprised if this becomes reality.

The Edens would have a higher chance of being set up before either of the South Side Expressways.

[Busjack]

The Edens would have a higher chance of being set up before either of the South Side Expressways.

I'll try to pay off the scope police.

Actually, the first display at the North Shore restructuring was to convert the former North Shore right of way to a 626 BRT, thus getting it off the Edens completely. It would have also followed abandoned railroad right of way south of Dempster to get to Jefferson Park.

Needless to say, by the second round of public workshops, that was long gone.

[mkohut]

While the CTA isn't in the customer service business.

There are things that are hurting 85A to get ridership besides wait time.

It doesn't go to the mall on Touhy.

Metra station at Caldwell/Devon where people can walk to.

Duplicate service with 85,225,226

[jajuan]

While the CTA isn't in the customer service business.

There are things that are hurting 85A to get ridership besides wait time.

It doesn't go to the mall on Touhy.

Metra station at Caldwell/Devon where people can walk to.

Duplicate service with 85,225,226

True but the increased wait time and cutting around the edges at its service times are only exacerbating the structural issues problems with that route that you outlined. On the duplicate service point making the logical assumption that the heavier ridership is on the Central portion of the route, 85 and 226 are more an issue than the 225 since the 225 is a rush hour, and what is for Pace, peak direction only route.

[Busjack]

True but the increased wait time and cutting around the edges at its service times are only exacerbating the structural issues problems with that route that you outlined. On the duplicate service point making the logical assumption that the heavier ridership is on the Central portion of the route, 85 and 226 are more an issue than the 225 since the 225 is a rush hour, and what is for Pace, peak direction only route.

225 is only an interline for 226 to Harlem-Oakton trips.

I'm sure the issue is the Caldwell-Touhy-Lehigh loop, and basically the lack of any other public transportation in the Edgebrook area. 225 and 226 are essentially Central-Carpenter.

[MetroShadow]

While the CTA isn't in the customer service business.

There are things that are hurting 85A to get ridership besides wait time.

It doesn't go to the mall on Touhy.

Metra station at Caldwell/Devon where people can walk to.

Duplicate service with 85,225,226

I don't even think 85A was designed for the mall, never mind the Wal-Mart. Use the 413 to at least do that.

However, there has to be a cost benefit to the CTA in bringing the 85A closer to both the Crossing and Wal-Mart without blocking out West Sauganash (because how many people are really interested in using either that or the 226 on Carpenter/Central). At the same time, you also have the 290 that brings you within a stone's throw a both.

[mkohut]

I don't even think 85A was designed for the mall, never mind the Wal-Mart. Use the 413 to at least do that.

However, there has to be a cost benefit to the CTA in bringing the 85A closer to both the Crossing and Wal-Mart without blocking out West Sauganash (because how many people are really interested in using either that or the 226 on Carpenter/Central). At the same time, you also have the 290 that brings you within a stone's throw a both.

As bad as frequently is on 85A .413 is worse.

[jajuan]

225 is only an interline for 226 to Harlem-Oakton trips.

I'm sure the issue is the Caldwell-Touhy-Lehigh loop, and basically the lack of any other public transportation in the Edgebrook area. 225 and 226 are essentially Central-Carpenter.

And that last part of your post brings up the main crux of why it may be troublesome for some that CTA is slowly killing this route. For folks who only need to travel Central/Carpenter, yes they have 85, 225 and 226 as alternatives. But as you point out, there is no public transportation alternative for anyone living in the Edgebrook area. Yes there's the Edgebrook Metra station, but those trains come what? Every one to three maybe four hours on average?

[BusHunter]

It was designed to do the Caldwell/Touhy /Lehigh loop because that is the city limits. One thing that i think hurts the #85A is all the trains you have to wait for which makes it slow around edgebrook and the Touhy railroad crossing. It mainly seems to pick up shift workers from the factories SB in the evening, maybe they should send it to the Howard industrial area like where the #290 to central trips turn around. The #290 seems to accumulate riders in that area very well. Passing by the mall wouldn't hurt either. Edgebrook residents just don't seem to ride that bus in great numbers.

[Busjack]

...maybe they should send it to the Howard industrial area like where the #290 to central trips turn around....

That's supposedly the role of 225, which at one time had on the overhead sign over the Jefferson Park bay "225 Howard Industrial."

[jajuan]

That's supposedly the role of 225, which at one time had on the overhead sign over the Jefferson Park bay "225 Howard Industrial."

Speaking of which, wasn't Howard industrial a part of 225's route name at some point before the current "Central/Howard"?

[Busjack]

Speaking of which, wasn't Howard industrial a part of 225's route name at some point before the current "Central/Howard"?

Since Pace NW generally doesn't put route names on bus headsigns, can't really tell without archiving a whole bunch of paper schedules.

A similar anomaly is that the overhead signs at Cumberland Blue Line had 240 West Park Ridge and 241 Park Ridge, while the schedule names were "240 Dee Road" and "241 Greenwood Talcott" and the only sign on the bus was 240 or 241 Golf Mill.