Blue Line Extension

[mkohut]

I found this article.

http://oakpark.suntimes.com/news/18481282-418/cta-could-announce-blue-line-extension-decision-by-fall.html

Of course no money for it.

[Busjack]

I found this article.

http://oakpark.suntimes.com/news/18481282-418/cta-could-announce-blue-line-extension-decision-by-fall.html

Of course no money for it.

This is apparently the other side of what was reported last week that IDOT was studying congestion relief on I-290, including extending the Blue Line to Mannheim and running express buses (presumably Pace) from there. The Daily Herald article indicated that CTA didn't think about it then. I was thinking that CTA then got the message, except that the Pioneer Press you found was dated a week earlier than that.

With regard to any money, I would think that IDOT would have to come up with it.

[mkohut]

From what i understand Pace doesn't want to run buses pass Mannheim due to the traffic.

Also,you have a problem where buses don't have a shoulder to ride on.

[Busjack]

From what i understand Pace doesn't want to run buses pass Mannheim due to the traffic.

Also,you have a problem where buses don't have a shoulder to ride on.

If you go back to the article twy originally cited, it referred to "Pace will take the lessons they learn from express buses on I-55 and I-90 and apply that to the extended Elgin-O'Hare Expressway and eventually to the I-88 corridor." [emphasis added]

The state legislation that authorized BOS also authorized the Tollway Authority to work with the Suburban Bus Division on similar projects, and there was the earlier legislation that Pace runs toll free on the Tollways.

Hence, the only issue you raise is whether the express buses would get off short of the Hillside Strangler, such as apparently at York Road south of Roosevelt.

[artthouwill]

One thing not mentioned in the article that pertains to Oak Park is the widening of the expressway between Austin and Desplaines. To accomplish that, I believe that they want to move the exit/entrance ramps from the left hand to the right hand side of the expressway. I believe they are also considering moving the CTA tracks to the south where the exiisting, but barely if ever used railroad tracks are, which would create enough space for expansion. West of Desplaines, they'd probably have to encroach on cemetery space to the south of the expressway, but there really is no room to expand the expressway west of 1st Ave. Right now I can only imagine a new station near the Maybrook Courthouse near 1st Ave, but I can't imagine anything but a subway between 1st Ave and Manheim with no stops between. I would have to see the actual expressway expansion plan to make a reasonable conclusion.

To Busjack's point of the express buses, there is no EB I-88 exit to York Rd, so thus it would either have to be Midwest Rd or Manheim. Midwest Rd North would take you to Butterfield, then east on Butterfield to eastbound Roosevelt to northbound Wolf to the Frontage Rd. But I think Manheim would work better.

[Busjack]

....

To Busjack's point of the express buses, there is no EB I-88 exit to York Rd, so thus it would either have to be Midwest Rd or Manheim. Midwest Rd North would take you to Butterfield, then east on Butterfield to eastbound Roosevelt to northbound Wolf to the Frontage Rd. But I think Manheim would work better.

The Illinois Tollway site says that there is. The issue, as indicated by the Google Map, is that it is on the leg going SB to 294 rather than to 290 and NB 294.

In any event, I threw that out there in case the IDOT plan didn't take care of a traffic jam at the Mannheim exit.

And I'll add the caveat that this is probably 8 years off, and still will be 8 years from now, unless there is an integrated highway/rapid transit plan.

[artthouwill]

The Illinois Tollway site says that there is. The issue, as indicated by the Google Map, is that it is on the leg going SB to 294 rather than to 290 and NB 294.

In any event, I threw that out there in case the IDOT plan didn't take care of a traffic jam at the Mannheim exit.

And I'll add the caveat that this is probably 8 years off, and still will be 8 years from now, unless there is an integrated highway/rapid transit plan.

I stand corrected

[BusHunter]

This is something that would benefit the western suburbs as alot of the buses now at Forest Pk/Blue line head west. I agree that there is no money for that though. If the blue line shifted to the freight tracks, it could then go up and over the Ike before Forest Pk use the existing Forest Pk station and yard and possibly head west from there along the old CA&E alignment. The space still exists today as a bike trail. Perhaps they could rebuild it with a bike trail along side it. I agree that there doesn't seem to be much space to build in the I-290 median or even along side it, but any extension would most likely have to come back and terminate at the Mannheim/I-290 interchange, if it was built away from the Ike.

[mkohut]

If and i do mean a big if get it build.Pace should have it own ramp at Mannheim.

[Busjack]

If and i do mean a big if get it build.Pace should have it own ramp at Mannheim.

I took your prior comment to mean that the Right Honorable and Honest George Ryan didn't fix the Hillside Strangler, and thus the bus would have to get off I-88 earlier to avoid the bottleneck. If he did, an off ramp at Mannheim would be trivial (sort of like the back door from the Tollway to the Rosemont bus terminal).

[Busjack]

... If the blue line shifted to the freight tracks, it could then go up and over the Ike before Forest Pk use the existing Forest Pk station and yard and possibly head west from there along the old CA&E alignment. The space still exists today as a bike trail. Perhaps they could rebuild it with a bike trail along side it. I agree that there doesn't seem to be much space to build in the I-290 median or even along side it, but any extension would most likely have to come back and terminate at the Mannheim/I-290 interchange, if it was built away from the Ike.

It would be interesting if anyone knows what happened in the 1950s to put the rapid transit right of way south of the expressway from Laramie west instead of in the median. As you indicated, maybe old CRT/CA&E right of way, but obviously the intent east of there was to put the rails (and according to Krambles, both companies') in the median. Or maybe it was a result of the strange decision to put the Austin and Harlem ramps on the left.

[BusHunter]

It would be interesting if anyone knows what happened in the 1950s to put the rapid transit right of way south of the expressway from Laramie west instead of in the median. As you indicated, maybe old CRT/CA&E right of way, but obviously the intent east of there was to put the rails (and according to Krambles, both companies') in the median. Or maybe it was a result of the strange decision to put the Austin and Harlem ramps on the left.

I believe that was the first subway expressway median in history. This link.http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&ved=0CFwQFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.oprfhistory.org%2Fevents%2Fevents%2Fevent%2FThe_Eisenhower_Expressway_at_50%2C32.aspx&ei=ArQ-UdiXO4bfyAH_x4F4&usg=AFQjCNFK0taXLm-jCPoF7XXn4IN51Ra9JA&bvm=bv.43287494,d.aWc states the Oak Park section was the last to be built in 1960, so that would mean the Congress "L" was already built in '58 and in place. Sounds like they just didn't want to move it, it had it's home next to the freight and was already there. Also it could have been a matter of the expressway project there was either built too late or delayed too late to incorporate the trains services into the project.

[artthouwill]

This is something that would benefit the western suburbs as alot of the buses now at Forest Pk/Blue line head west. I agree that there is no money for that though. If the blue line shifted to the freight tracks, it could then go up and over the Ike before Forest Pk use the existing Forest Pk station and yard and possibly head west from there along the old CA&E alignment. The space still exists today as a bike trail. Perhaps they could rebuild it with a bike trail along side it. I agree that there doesn't seem to be much space to build in the I-290 median or even along side it, but any extension would most likely have to come back and terminate at the Mannheim/I-290 interchange, if it was built away from the Ike.

Isn't there a cemetery between the Forest Park Terminal and the Courthouse? I am pretty sure I walked through that path and it was in the midst of a cemetery. That aside, this could be the cheapest way to extend the line in terms of building it. Now as far as getting approval...

[BusHunter]

Isn't there a cemetery between the Forest Park Terminal and the Courthouse? I am pretty sure I walked through that path and it was in the midst of a cemetery. That aside, this could be the cheapest way to extend the line in terms of building it. Now as far as getting approval...

Yeah your right Concordia cemetary is right there. I've never been through that way to get to the courthouse. (Haven't had jury duty there since 1995) I heard there is a old bridge back there that crosses over the Des Plaines river, (original CA&E one maybe) but in the last few years they have built many condos over on the street just north of the yard and I'm not sure if there's still access to the path or not. According to Google maps streetview there is a gate just beyond a blue and white sign across from the condos. Is that how you get to the access path?

[artthouwill]

Yeah your right Concordia cemetary is right there. I've never been through that way to get to the courthouse. (Haven't had jury duty there since 1995) I heard there is a old bridge back there that crosses over the Des Plaines river, (original CA&E one maybe) but in the last few years they have built many condos over on the street just north of the yard and I'm not sure if there's still access to the path or not. According to Google maps streetview there is a gate just beyond a blue and white sign across from the condos. Is that how you get to the access path?

My recollection is that I never had to pass through a gate. I do remember walking over a bridge of the Des Plaines river. I think there is access from Van Buren St, which actually runs north-south from Madison and then the street turns east west past the condos and leads to Desplaines Ave, which serves as the entry point for buses pulling into Forest Park Terminal.