RTA Governance

[jajuan]

This battle would be a great WWE story line

http://www.suntimes.com/22626288-761/rta-board-members-squabble-miss-funding-deadline.html

The article proves my point that Emanuel and CTA aren't the only guilty parties in the whole ridiculous mess we call public transit in the area.

[Busjack]

The article proves my point that Emanuel and CTA aren't the only guilty parties in the whole ridiculous mess we call public transit in the area.

That isn't clear. It said that the majority of suburban voters were in favor, although it didn't say how may were opposed.

One has to take account that there is at least one vacancy due to the Cook County President's appointee's seat being vacant.

Also, I noted that the numbers are going down, in that at the last meeting there were 5 city representatives, here only 4. The RTA's site shows only 14 of the 17 directors, so Emanuel may have a disproportionate block due to 3 vacancies. Apparently while the statute says 12 out of 17, they really need 12 out of 14. So, the board is stymied whatever it does.

However, only the city has stated any need to break the process, so I don't see why you repeatedly insist on saying there are other guilty parties without saying who they are.

Update: The Tribune article said that the RTA board had enough votes to tell the CTA to pay back a $56 million loan. So that might be the battleground for which mk was looking.

[mkohut]

That isn't clear. It said that the majority of suburban voters were in favor, although it didn't say how may were opposed.

One has to take account that there is at least one vacancy due to the Cook County President's appointee's seat being vacant.

Also, I noted that the numbers are going down, in that at the last meeting there were 5 city representatives, here only 4. The RTA's site shows only 14 of the 17 directors, so Emanuel may have a disproportionate block due to 3 vacancies. Apparently while the statute says 12 out of 17, they really need 12 out of 14. So, the board is stymied whatever it does.

However, only the city has stated any need to break the process, so I don't see why you repeatedly insist on saying there are other guilty parties without saying who they are.

Update: The Tribune article said that the RTA board had enough votes to tell the CTA to pay back a $56 million loan. So that might be the battleground for which mk was looking.

That is.If the CTA is force to pay it back.Emanuel might decide to put a tax on airline tickets to get the money and claim he didn't stick it to the Chicago Taxpayer.

[Busjack]

That is.If the CTA is force to pay it back.Emanuel might decide to put a tax on airline tickets to get the money and claim he didn't stick it to the Chicago Taxpayer.

That takes federal approval and is only allowed for airport improvements.

The other issue is that if the city itself is broke, it imposing a tax for the benefit of the CTA would, in essence be making an unauthorized gift to a separate municipal corporation.

But he is probably thinking about something along those lines.

[jajuan]

That isn't clear. It said that the majority of suburban voters were in favor, although it didn't say how may were opposed.

One has to take account that there is at least one vacancy due to the Cook County President's appointee's seat being vacant.

Also, I noted that the numbers are going down, in that at the last meeting there were 5 city representatives, here only 4. The RTA's site shows only 14 of the 17 directors, so Emanuel may have a disproportionate block due to 3 vacancies. Apparently while the statute says 12 out of 17, they really need 12 out of 14. So, the board is stymied whatever it does.

However, only the city has stated any need to break the process, so I don't see why you repeatedly insist on saying there are other guilty parties without saying who they are.

Update: The Tribune article said that the RTA board had enough votes to tell the CTA to pay back a $56 million loan. So that might be the battleground for which mk was looking.

I say there are other guilty parties because we're seeing different bouts of political back and forth and other nonsense stemming from one or more politician's ego, bruised or otherwise, and that doesn't always have to be because a given party wants to buck the rules, In this case DuPage County board Chairman Dan Cronin forming an ad hoc mass transit committee because he says the chair of the public transit committee Eilzabeth Chaplin failed to address the mess at Metra and the RTA. Chaplin claims that the whole thing is all payback stemming from her criticism of Cronin. And yet Metra and RTA still have a mess ongoing while these two squabble with each other. That's what I mean by the city isn't the only guilty party in engaging in political nonsense while the transit system falls apart. I notice that I forgot to mention I was referring to the Daily Herald article mk linked last night.

[Busjack]

... In this case DuPage County board Chairman Dan Cronin forming an ad hoc mass transit committee because he says the chair of the public transit committee Eilzabeth Chaplin failed to address the mess at Metra and the RTA. Chaplin claims that the whole thing is all payback stemming from her criticism of Cronin. And yet Metra and RTA still have a mess ongoing while these two squabble with each other. That's what I mean by the city isn't the only guilty party in engaging in political nonsense while the transit system falls apart. I notice that I forgot to mention I was referring to the Daily Herald article mk linked last night.

I read the Daily Herald article, and that seemed to be internal to the DuPage County Board. From reading the Pace minutes and other stuff, apparently everyone has an ad hoc committee on transit.

However, it hasn't been demonstrated that anyone other than Emanuel is going out of the way to cripple the RTA in doing its statutory functions.The Tribune pointed out that the RTA has violated the statute, but said there [are] "no apparent legal repercussions," so, so what.

[jajuan]

I read the Daily Herald article, and that seemed to be internal to the DuPage County Board. From reading the Pace minutes and other stuff, apparently everyone has an ad hoc committee on transit.

However, it hasn't been demonstrated that anyone other than Emanuel is going out of the way to cripple the RTA in doing its statutory functions.The Tribune pointed out that the RTA has violated the statute, but said there [are] "no apparent legal repercussions," so, so what.

Did I not say I was referring everyone digging in their heels in their respective political corners IN GENERAL of which Emanuel's foolishness is the most blatant example while the transit system falls apart? DuPage does have a voice on the RTA board does it not? The RTA Board is mess is it not? My point is, all of them are playing politics, with Emanuel's goal with his playing politics being to blow up the RTA, but no one is digging in to actually try to fix the d@*n problem.

[Busjack]

Did I not say I was referring everyone digging in their heels in their respective political corners IN GENERAL of which Emanuel's foolishness is the most blatant example while the transit system falls apart? DuPage does have a voice on the RTA board does it not? The RTA Board is mess is it not? My point is, all of them are playing politics, with Emanuel's goal with his playing politics being to blow up the RTA, but no one is digging in to actually try to fix the d@*n problem.

Of course everyone is jockeying for political influence, but I haven't heard of anyone suggesting turning over the power to appoint the CTA Executive Director to the McHenry County Democrat Committeemen, for instance. Maybe that's next.

Now maybe what Emanuel should say is "I have enough problems running the school system, police department, streets and san., that maybe I don't need the problem of the CTA." However, there must be some political point for him to treat CTA as a division of CDOT and try to free it from any fiscal supervision, that is other than the obvious one of getting the suburban sales taxpayers who can't get their orders accepted in Channahon to pay for it.

[jajuan]

Of course everyone is jockeying for political influence, but I haven't heard of anyone suggesting turning over the power to appoint the CTA Executive Director to the McHenry County Democrat Committeemen, for instance. Maybe that's next.

I think we got our wires crossed when I expanded my view beyond just who's trying to dismantle or buck the current RTA structure to the question of what are these yo-yos as a whole going to do to reform the transit system outside of the current showing of their respective political hands and jockeying to push their respective hands above the other. We all said one way or another that there don't need to be four boards for public transit in the area. But that also means any theoretical replacement is still going to cover the same geography over which these bozos preside. So my question becomes, how do you create a system that cuts the influence of all these morons, that is truly independent and run by actual transit professionals who can see concentrate on the transit needs of both the city and suburban areas in the six collar county area?

[Busjack]

I think we got our wires crossed when I expanded my view beyond just who's trying to dismantle or buck the current RTA structure to the question of what are these yo-yos as a whole going to do to reform the transit system outside of the current showing of their respective political hands and jockeying to push their respective hands above the other. We all said one way or another that there don't need to be four boards for public transit in the area. But that also means any theoretical replacement is still going to cover the same geography over which these bozos preside. So my question becomes, how do you create a system that cuts the influence of all these morons, that is truly independent and run by actual transit professionals who can see concentrate on the transit needs of both the city and suburban areas in the six collar county area?

That's a fair question, and essentially the one I posed to Franks when all the statutory constraints that now exist have been violated by everyone concerned, which may be your point.

There is stuff such as that proposed by Toboloski and Suffredin that it will be their standards that applicants have to show experience in running a railroad or the like, but besides those two being political hacks of various varieties, that is the ignored standard for hiring the Executive Director of the CTA.

Some people have suggested an elected transit board, but the electorate in general doesn't know for whom they are voting for judges and Metropolitan Water Reclamation District. The MWRD, while partisan, might be an example where it seems to do its job without much controversy.

The possibility might be that while the various politicians will be angling over influencing a unified board, the patronage may not be sufficient for people like Claypool to want to hang around. After all, after Clifford didn't give Madigan's buddy a raise, he got a job from Quinn, but at least left Metra. Maybe a properly composed board could attract professional management, and get rid of overlapping positions.

One overriding board might also have more light shed on its operations, instead of the media just figuring out that most of the Metra board and some of the RTA board members were not legally appointed, not to mention not investigating the appointments on the CTA board, other than Quinn pointing out that Terry Peterson is a political hack, but only in defense of his appointment of his political hack.

[jajuan]

That's a fair question, and essentially the one I posed to Franks when all the statutory constraints that now exist have been violated by everyone concerned, which may be your point.

There is stuff such as that proposed by Toboloski and Suffredin that it will be their standards that applicants have to show experience in running a railroad or the like, but besides those two being political hacks of various varieties, that is the ignored standard for hiring the Executive Director of the CTA.

Some people have suggested an elected transit board, but the electorate in general doesn't know for whom they are voting for judges and Metropolitan Water Reclamation District. The MWRD, while partisan, might be an example where it seems to do its job without much controversy.

The possibility might be that while the various politicians will be angling over influencing a unified board, the patronage may not be sufficient for people like Claypool to want to hang around. After all, after Clifford didn't give Madigan's buddy a raise, he got a job from Quinn, but at least left Metra. Maybe a properly composed board could attract professional management, and get rid of overlapping positions.

One overriding board might also have more light shed on its operations, instead of the media just figuring out that most of the Metra board and some of the RTA board members were not legally appointed, not to mention not investigating the appointments on the CTA board, other than Quinn pointing out that Terry Peterson is a political hack, but only in defense of his appointment of his political hack.

Yes that's the point I was trying to get to. Sorry I didn't state it quite as clearly as you managed to or if it seemed like I was getting aggravated with you. In actuality I'm frustrated (well more than frustrated ) with these guys because it seems like they seem set on giving us more of same and that frustration's kind of leaking through on here.

[mkohut]

Quinn panel got chew out

http://www.suntimes.com/22653275-418/transit-task-force-hit-for-banning-public-from-smaller-working-group-meetings.html

[jajuan]

Quinn panel got chew out

http://www.suntimes.com/22653275-418/transit-task-force-hit-for-banning-public-from-smaller-working-group-meetings.html

At least the chewing out resulted in future meetings being conducted with open access rather than be closed doored like previous meetings.

[Busjack]

Quinn panel got chew out

http://www.suntimes.com/22653275-418/transit-task-force-hit-for-banning-public-from-smaller-working-group-meetings.html

As I said before, this committee was designed to fail, and there was the previous complaint that it wouldn't be taking public comment at a public hearing. So Franks is correct with regard to CYA.

The rest of this comes down to that just as the exceptions and exemptions have taken over the Freedom of Information Act, they also seem to have taken over the Open Meetings Act. Even if something may come within an exception, it looks bad and smells worse.

[mkohut]

I'm not sure what former Mayor Daley would do.

I'm not sure if anybody remember when he didn't get Lake Calumet Airport or the Olympics but he was a sore loser.

[Busjack]

I'm not sure what former Mayor Daley would do.

I'm not sure if anybody remember when he didn't get Lake Calumet Airport or the Olympics but he was a sore loser.

If you are referring to openness in government, remember that he sent out Frank Kruesi to demolish the runway at Meigs Field in the middle of the night, stranding some private aircraft, and incurring a fine from the FAA. I've always contended that that's the only thing Kruesi did competently, but note that he was CTA President, not Dept. of Aviation or CDOT. See the retrospective in the Sun-Times.

I remember the Olympics, at which time he said the IOC was all politics and money. Takes one to know one.

If you are talking about transit, his response was sending out Kruesi and Carole Brown to threaten doomsday, unless they got funding, and the suburbs were underpaying. As I noted before, taxes went up, but not in the manner one of their sycophants was putting on his website. But at least Carole Brown had enough independence to say that she didn't support the consultant's report on the Airport Express, but did go along with Block 37, because the hole was already there.

[mkohut]

If you are referring to openness in government, remember that he sent out Frank Kruesi to demolish the runway at Meigs Field in the middle of the night, stranding some private aircraft, and incurring a fine from the FAA. I've always contended that that's the only thing Kruesi did competently, but note that he was CTA President, not Dept. of Aviation or CDOT. See the retrospective in the Sun-Times.

I remember the Olympics, at which time he said the IOC was all politics and money. Takes one to know one.

If you are talking about transit, his response was sending out Kruesi and Carole Brown to threaten doomsday, unless they got funding, and the suburbs were underpaying. As I noted before, taxes went up, but not in the manner one of their sycophants was putting on his website. But at least Carole Brown had enough independence to say that she didn't support the consultant's report on the Airport Express, but did go along with Block 37, because the hole was already there.

Thanks for the article.The one think about Carole Brown is I don't think she has a major role on Quinn panel.

She did play a role with saying 81 of the 154 routes were going to get cut with doomsday.

[Busjack]

Thanks for the article.The one think about Carole Brown is I don't think she has a major role on Quinn panel.

She did play a role with saying 81 of the 154 routes were going to get cut with doomsday.

I think you have the wrong doomsday.

The one to which I was referring was the one threatened in 2005, which basically was run the Sunday schedule 7 days a week, even though that would have eliminated service in areas where the buses ran only Monday-Saturday, like most of Rogers Park, Norwood Park, and, of course, Evanston, where the locals didn't have a vote in the matter. That plan was only a political threat and overkill, compared to the actual cuts that were made in 2010.

As to the Quinn panel, her appointment only reinforced my conclusion that panel was a joke. Emanuel had also put her on the RTA board for a couple of months, but, like her resignation from the CTA board, she realized that she had to attend to her real job. Note that the RTA release announcing her resignation points out that she was replaced by Pang, who while now in the private sector, was a functionary for Daley. So, as to your point whether Daley would have been any different, no.

[mkohut]

I think you have the wrong doomsday.

The one to which I was referring was the one threatened in 2005, which basically was run the Sunday schedule 7 days a week, even though that would have eliminated service in areas where the buses ran only Monday-Saturday, like most of Rogers Park, Norwood Park, and, of course, Evanston, where the locals didn't have a vote in the matter. That plan was only a political threat and overkill, compared to the actual cuts that were made in 2010.

As to the Quinn panel, her appointment only reinforced my conclusion that panel was a joke. Emanuel had also put her on the RTA board for a couple of months, but, like her resignation from the CTA board, she realized that she had to attend to her real job. Note that the RTA release announcing her resignation points out that she was replaced by Pang, who while now in the private sector, was a functionary for Daley. So, as to your point whether Daley would have been any different, no.

Which brings up the point of the CTA crying about doomsday all the time.

I was thinking of 2008.

[Busjack]

Which brings up the point of the CTA crying about doomsday all the time.

I was thinking of 2008.

The 2008 legislation supposedly resolved the crying wolf of 2005-7. That lasted less than 2 years, but nobody was going back to tax hikes in the midst of the recession (at least after Cook County and the state raised theirs).

The only actual cuts were the 20% across the board for bus and 10% for trains in 2010, and however you categorize last year's Crowd Reduction Plan.

But, yes, CTA has been crying all the time, which continues today before the RTA.

[Railwaymodeler]

Every time the CTA cries "Doomsday". I think of:

[Busjack]

The Tribune has a good story by John McCarron, which IMO, accurately states the history of the RTA over the last 40 years. He also has the more logical conclusion that Ranney, but at the end seems to back off.

The only thing he leaves out (and I don't have the answer for) is how the RTA became essentially bankrupt in 1981, resulting in suburban service being cut and CTA fares doubling, and, as I understand it, why Jane Byrne rather have the problem than the solution.

[mkohut]

Here is the latest update

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20130925/news/709259620

[Busjack]

Here is the latest update

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20130925/news/709259620

Two things I mentioned often are obvious here:

• Everyone is trying to protect his own turf, especially Gates and Claypool.
• "Meanwhile, other leaders told the panel the real problem facing transit is a shortfall in operating and capital funding." When did we hear that before, like before the 2008 tax increase? Unless any of these agencies figure out how to sell a service for which the customers are willing to pay, funding only means taxes. And, of course, the main one of the choir to which they are preaching is the grand dame of the "funding" appeal, Carole Brown.

Now, maybe the panel will get some input from outside the 4 entities that have a vested interest in the current mess. But I'm not betting on it.

Update: The Tribune version indicated even a bigger percentage of the time was spent about funding, not cleaning up the inefficiency. If the RFID readers don't raid your wallet, the legislature is about to, again. At least the Tribune one had Gates mentioning how NY MTA and SEPTA work.

[mkohut]

Two things I mentioned often are obvious here:

• Everyone is trying to protect his own turf, especially Gates and Claypool.
• "Meanwhile, other leaders told the panel the real problem facing transit is a shortfall in operating and capital funding." When did we hear that before, like before the 2008 tax increase? Unless any of these agencies figure out how to sell a service for which the customers are willing to pay, funding only means taxes. And, of course, the main one of the choir to which they are preaching is the grand dame of the "funding" appeal, Carole Brown.

Now, maybe the panel will get some input from outside the 4 entities that have a vested interest in the current mess. But I'm not betting on it.

Update: The Tribune version indicated even a bigger percentage of the time was spent about funding, not cleaning up the inefficiency. If the RFID readers don't raid your wallet, the legislature is about to, again. At least the Tribune one had Gates mentioning how NY MTA and SEPTA work.

As the late Gorilla Monsoon would say Carole Brown is no where to be found.It seen like Fitzgerald made point is get the politics out of hiring.

If Lanny Poffo would have been there .He could have done a poem with the battle between Claypool and Gates.