Shakeup the Blue Line

[AMWChicago]

If you haven't noticed, which I hope you have, the terminus during rush hour seems to always be UIC-Halsted. This is a result of booming ridership on the Northwest Side, while West Side ridership has dropped significantly. Now I've thrown this idea around a couple of times and never got much feedback, so here we go. What if CTA splits the Blue Line in two. And instead of going from O'Hare to Forest Park, a super-station at Union Station would be built as a terminal for the "O'Hare Branch". As for the "Forest Park Branch", it would run from the West past Union Station into the Loop and terminate at Clark/Lake. This will allow for more trains to run along the O'Hare Branch and connect Union Station to the 'L' (Yes, I know BRT is now connecting it), all while continuing service to Forest Park.

 

I put a drawing in to give everyone an idea of what it would look like.

[MetroShadow]

Good Day.

Welcome aboard.

First of all, see the guidelines under #3 - Justification of any proposal.

As for the proposal itself, while splitting the Blue into two has already been done in 2006, this would only be done with the tunnel underneath Union Station through the West Loop. That, of course, costs money.

Additionally, with the Crowd Reduction Plan, one of the components was to alternate termini between UIC and Forest Park, throughout the week. Alternately, every other train in the morning ends at the Jeff, in order to get passengers from Logan Square south. The issue isn't so much more trains (because there's a functional balance as it is), it's the operational difficulties out of Clark/Lake (or the through riders that need to go to O'Hare).

[AMWChicago]

Good Day.

Welcome aboard.

First of all, see the guidelines under #3 - Justification of any proposal.

As for the proposal itself, while splitting the Blue into two has already been done in 2006, this would only be done with the tunnel underneath Union Station through the West Loop. That, of course, costs money.

Additionally, with the Crowd Reduction Plan, one of the components was to alternate termini between UIC and Forest Park, throughout the week. Alternately, every other train in the morning ends at the Jeff, in order to get passengers from Logan Square south. The issue isn't so much more trains (because there's a functional balance as it is), it's the operational difficulties out of Clark/Lake (or the through riders that need to go to O'Hare).

Thanks!

Glad to be here.

I agree it would cost money, and that's something the CTA isn't just handing out these days. As for the Clark/Lake terminal I was thinking the original stop (the one there now) would be used for the O'Hare Branch and an additional track and platform would be adjacent to it where the Forest Park train would pull in and then merge back to the shared track that already exists. (again costing money). There wouldn't be a depot or rail yard like you see at O'Hare or Rosemont. Trains would just arrive and then leave, which would be tricky for the scheduling. This is all hypothetical of course I haven't broken this down to exact numbers, I just wanted to hear people's opinions, so thank you!

[AMWChicago]

For those of you who read this and comment on the justification, I'm sorry I didn't state raw data to back it up. I simply wanted to get the idea out there and have others pile knowledge and ideas into the flame to get the conversation going. I didn't mean to make a careless proposal without questioning it. I believe it would be beneficial for the CTA. And I would like to hear you're opinion on it. 

 

Thank You

[Busjack]

Thanks!

Glad to be here.

I agree it would cost money, and that's something the CTA isn't just handing out these days. As for the Clark/Lake terminal I was thinking the original stop (the one there now) would be used for the O'Hare Branch and an additional track and platform would be adjacent to it where the Forest Park train would pull in and then merge back to the shared track that already exists. (again costing money). There wouldn't be a depot or rail yard like you see at O'Hare or Rosemont. Trains would just arrive and then leave, which would be tricky for the scheduling. This is all hypothetical of course I haven't broken this down to exact numbers, I just wanted to hear people's opinions, so thank you!

The Clark-Lake terminal could be accommodated if someone dug out the existing portal for the proposed Lake St. subway, which would cost money. A short description is on chicago-l.org, under "The short Lake St. subway..."

I sort of see a point to Union Station as a terminal for O'Hare service, in that the argument has been made that airport passengers don't want to emerge under Dearborn Street, but it really doesn't take into account that the hotel destination usually is North Michigan Avenue. One would have to ruminate whether their destination really is the West Loop, Amtrak, or Metra.

There was a proposal for a Clinton St. transitway (never happened either), which essentially would route the Red Line through that corridor. The difference between your proposal and this one would be that it would not require a turnback.

Finally, I suppose that your proposal would involve a 30% increase in traffic in the Dearborn subway, because cars wouldn't be going through, but separate trains would be needed for the O'Hare and Forest Park lines. The original theory for routing trains through the Loop was to cut down congestion in the Loop. There would also be a certain amount of congestion on the platforms if people going from, say, Wicker Park to the Illinois Medical District, had to transfer.

 

[Tcmetro]

An initial version of the Central Area Plan mentioned an spur of the Blue Line along Clinton (potentially making a new subway semi-loop along Clinton, Lake, Dearborn, and Congress), but that was superseded by the North/Clybourn-Chinatown idea. 

 

CTA seems to be focusing on extending the UIC short-turns to IMD currently. I don't think the Clinton subway will actually happen, but I think maybe some new pedestrian tunnels could efficiently connect the Clinton stops on Green/Pink and Blue to Union and Ogilvie. 

[AMWChicago]

The Clark-Lake terminal could be accommodated if someone dug out the existing portal for the proposed Lake St. subway, which would cost money. A short description is on chicago-l.org, under "The short Lake St. subway..."

I sort of see a point to Union Station as a terminal for O'Hare service, in that the argument has been made that airport passengers don't want to emerge under Dearborn Street, but it really doesn't take into account that the hotel destination usually is North Michigan Avenue. One would have to ruminate whether their destination really is the West Loop, Amtrak, or Metra.

There was a proposal for a Clinton St. transitway (never happened either), which essentially would route the Red Line through that corridor. The difference between your proposal and this one would be that it would not require a turnback.

Finally, I suppose that your proposal would involve a 30% increase in traffic in the Dearborn subway, because cars wouldn't be going through, but separate trains would be needed for the O'Hare and Forest Park lines. The original theory for routing trains through the Loop was to cut down congestion in the Loop. There would also be a certain amount of congestion on the platforms if people going from, say, Wicker Park to the Illinois Medical District, had to transfer.

 

I know exactly what you're talking about with the extension of the Lake Street tunnel creating a small depot, but that would be an expensive project for something I don't think would in demand considered the other rail yards along the Blue Line. I also agree with you in that the West Loop lacks hotel accommodations, but this project driven towards giving commuters an option between O'Hare and Union Station. Not just tourists, but mainly workers. We all know Block 37 was supposed to be a superstation that drew tourists from the Blue Line. I think it will continue to gain momentum and hopefully attract tourists to State Street and Millennium Mile where hotels are rapidly expanding. 

[AMWChicago]

An initial version of the Central Area Plan mentioned an spur of the Blue Line along Clinton (potentially making a new subway semi-loop along Clinton, Lake, Dearborn, and Congress), but that was superseded by the North/Clybourn-Chinatown idea. 

 

CTA seems to be focusing on extending the UIC short-turns to IMD currently. I don't think the Clinton subway will actually happen, but I think maybe some new pedestrian tunnels could efficiently connect the Clinton stops on Green/Pink and Blue to Union and Ogilvie. 

I always thought a tunnel from Union Station to either Clinton stop would work for people working downtown.

[Busjack]

I'll just throw this one against the wall, given that this is an IDOT project and a Blue Line thread:

Would the imbalance on the Blue Line as well as traffic congestion be better addressed building a humongous Park and Ride at the end of the Blue Line, such as if it were extended to Hillside? Sort of like the Rosemont and Cumberland park and rides?

[MetroShadow]

I'll just throw this one against the wall, given that this is an IDOT project and a Blue Line thread:

Would the imbalance on the Blue Line as well as traffic congestion be better addressed building a humongous Park and Ride at the end of the Blue Line, such as if it were extended to Hillside? Sort of like the Rosemont and Cumberland park and rides?

Definitely couldn't hurt. It could also help if the Forest Park Branch offered express service through the West Side, but that's beside the point. 

[MTRSP1900-CTA3200]

I'll just throw this one against the wall, given that this is an IDOT project and a Blue Line thread:

Would the imbalance on the Blue Line as well as traffic congestion be better addressed building a humongous Park and Ride at the end of the Blue Line, such as if it were extended to Hillside? Sort of like the Rosemont and Cumberland park and rides?

Possibly. Though I don't like the current setup at Forest Park and Rosemont. When I parked there for the Snowflake specials, the current parking lot at Forest Park wasn't that welcoming and I was not a fan of the payment system (leave your car, buy a ticket, go back to your car to put the ticket on your car's dash, and finally go to the platforms). I'd be more inclined to park there if they had a garage instead. Who doesn't like your car protected from the elements?

When the Snowflake Special left from Harlem/Lake, I parked in a nice garage owned by the Village of Oak Park and walked over to the station. I liked it better, even though I had to walk further and ended up missing the tour of Harlem Yard.

[Busjack]

....leave your car, buy a ticket, go back to your car to put the ticket on your car's dash, and finally go to the platforms). I'd be more inclined to park there if they had a garage instead....

I was thinking garage, but the system you describe is pretty antiquated, given that most commuter lots (at least for Metra) have a vending machine in the station, where you punch in your space number and then pay.

[strictures]

I have a different proposal which I know would never get built.

Move the Wells St. portion of the Loop L to Clinton, so there's direct connection to both Union & Ogilvie. It's absurd that these two stations that bring in about 150,000 Metra riders every weekday don't have L or subway service. I rarely see anyone go from The Clinton/Congress subway station to or from Union Station & the numbers that go from Ogilvie to Clinton/Lake can't be more than a few hundred per day.

 

[Busjack]

I have a different proposal which I know would never get built.

Move the Wells St. portion of the Loop L to Clinton, so there's direct connection to both Union & Ogilvie. It's absurd that these two stations that bring in about 150,000 Metra riders every weekday don't have L or subway service. I rarely see anyone go from The Clinton/Congress subway station to or from Union Station & the numbers that go from Ogilvie to Clinton/Lake can't be more than a few hundred per day.

 

Doesn't make sense as an L, but makes eminent sense as a subway, which means it won't be built.

I believe it is too far to assume that Qunicy and Wells is the stop for Union Station, or, for that matter, that LaSalle and Van Buren is the stop for LaSalle St. station (although assuming that the bus stop for the latter is on Jackson is worse).

[AMWChicago]

Definitely couldn't hurt. It could also help if the Forest Park Branch offered express service through the West Side, but that's beside the point. 

I never thought about express. That would be a great incentive for suburban riders. Would have top build a third rail though, or maybe use freight tracks. Doesn't part of it run along other tracks, kinda like Orange Line? 

[AMWChicago]

It's absurd that these two stations that bring in about 150,000 Metra riders every weekday don't have L or subway service. I rarely see anyone go from The Clinton/Congress subway station to or from Union Station & the numbers that go from Ogilvie to Clinton/Lake can't be more than a few hundred per day.

 

It is a shame that the Loop and Union and Ogilvie Stations would developed apart from each other over the years. Hopefully the Loop Link will change this: http://brtchicago.com/

[Busjack]

I never thought about express. That would be a great incentive for suburban riders. Would have top build a third rail though, or maybe use freight tracks. Doesn't part of it run along other tracks, kinda like Orange Line? 

The original median was built wide enough to take the CA&E, which went out of business before the Congress line was completed. Unanswered question is whether IDOT intends to reclaim that median. Also, with frequencies reduced (and the Congress branch never having had skip stop service), it is questionable whether an express would save any significant time. Surely, IDOT's alternatives analysis would be whether fixing and extending the current Blue Line would relieve congestion on the expressway.

[Busjack]

It is a shame that the Loop and Union and Ogilvie Stations would developed apart from each other over the years. Hopefully the Loop Link will change this: http://brtchicago.com/

That's the intent of the Loop Link. But the railroad stations were developed when the steam railroads carried passengers, both long distance and commuter. I remember a time before Amtrak, when the long distance railroads had different depots.