Brown line extension to Jeff Pk possible?

[BusHunter]

Recently there has been a campaign to send the Brown line to Jefferson Park. While it's not impossible it would require a subway be built for about 2 miles at least. With the current space they have at Kimball they could build it two ways. Build a decent ramp along the Kimball station and either leave the existing station outside or put it in a subway. The station would have to be rebuilt either way, the outdoor design would mirror Midway where it's below grade and you simply would just go into the subway at Lawrence. The mezzanine could be built over the station since it's below grade and still serve the Lawrence and Kimball crowd effectively. Now if they went down Lawrence, they would have a proven high traffic corridor, but really it would be better to physically connect the two lines together. They wouldn't need a subway after Cicero if they elevated the final 1/2 mile running it along the railroad next to Cicero or even using it. (I think it's defunct, they have a bike trail on it around the Bryn Mawr Peterson area) The trick would be a 180 degree turn back to the Kennedy south of Lawrence around Wilson. They could always do a 90 degree turn run it over Wilson west of Cicero to the expressway and If they could widen the expressway there, and they might be able to (they have an accident investigation site there) they could actually build an approach and link the two lines together.

Anyway here's a link about the campaign, i was reading about. It is needed and should be looked at. It has the potential to serve many not just a few people. 

http://depauliaonline.com/news/2015/10/11/campaign-advocates-cta-brown-line-extension/

[Busjack]

In that some proposal has been around for decades, and CTA can't even get the 130th St. Red Line extension going, this is about as likely as, say, Pace getting city paratransit capital, i.e.not.

It would take about 15 years of consultant contracts just to get it to the point of BusHunter's questions.

I see it also quotes Jacky Grimshaw, one of the BIGGEST embarrassments as a CTA  board member.

[Scionic]

I guess I don't really see why this would ever be a priority for the CTA.

Connecting the Brown Line to the Blue Line is solving the problem of "it kinda takes a long time to get from the north side to O'Hare".  Meanwhile are projects like the Red Line extension which is providing basic transit to an alarmingly underserved part of town.  I don't think this article really does the plan any favors, since it focuses partly on a kid going to DePaul having a hard time getting home from Wrigleyville after drinking.

[Busjack]

I guess I don't really see why this would ever be a priority for the CTA.

Connecting the Brown Line to the Blue Line is solving the problem of "it kinda takes a long time to get from the north side to O'Hare".  Meanwhile are projects like the Red Line extension which is providing basic transit to an alarmingly underserved part of town.  I don't think this article really does the plan any favors, since it focuses partly on a kid going to DePaul having a hard time getting home from Wrigleyville after drinking.

On your last point, anecdotes prove nothing about need, so you are correct.

"The long time to get to O'Hare" was supposed to be remedied by the X80 bus, which, like all the Xs got the axe.

[BusHunter]

On your last point, anecdotes prove nothing about need, so you are correct.

"The long time to get to O'Hare" was supposed to be remedied by the X80 bus, which, like all the Xs got the axe.

Basically it would serve most riders heading east from the Blue line from Lawrence to potentially the loop, and that's a big piece of real estate. That's why it could serve many. With it running down Lawrence too, that would be an extra bonus. If they ran a study, I bet it could serve almost as many as the 130th extension. I'm not saying it will get done next week, but it might eventually happen. Never say never!!

One thing I can say, population will continue to grow and I don't see the streets getting any wider, in fact they are shrinking due to the explosion of bike lanes in the city. One thing I have noticed is there are alot more riders than I thought taking a blue line train south and a red line train north. They speak of north side Red line congestion and overcrowding. Maybe something like this would elimination a portion of those riders, it will continue to grow otherwise and will eventually outgrow the Red line. Full capacity is getting close now. What will 30 more years bring? 

Edited October 18, 2015 by BusHunter

[Busjack]

Basically it would serve most riders heading east from the Blue line from Lawrence to potentially the loop, and that's a big piece of real estate. That's why it could serve many. With it running down Lawrence too, that would be an extra bonus. If they ran a study, I bet it could serve almost as many as the 130th extension. I'm not saying it will get done next week, but it might eventually happen. Never say never!!

...

Hard to tell if that would be any faster or more convenient than a straight shot on the Blue Line to downtown.

The potential for the 130th extension is shown by the boardings at 95th, but I still contend that the expansion of the bus terminal using borrowed money indicates CTA is not serious about the extension.

Speaking about 30 year projections, who would have predicted 30 years ago that ridership would have dipped on the south side lines and Congress line to the extent it did?

[briman94]

I would looooooove to see this happen, because it currently takes me over an hour to get to work via Brown > 81 > Blue, or an hour and a half via Brown > Red > Blue, and this would make it probably around a half hour with Brown straight to Blue. It would take a really long time to build, and would be quite expensive, but man would it be useful, and I know tons of people would utilize the extension daily.

Edited October 19, 2015 by briman94
Got the bus route wrong somehow o_O

[BusHunter]

The potential for the 130th extension is shown by the boardings at 95th, but I still contend that the expansion of the bus terminal using borrowed money indicates CTA is not serious about the extension.

Speaking about 30 year projections, who would have predicted 30 years ago that ridership would have dipped on the south side lines and Congress line to the extent it did?

Not necessarily on the first point, any traffic coming from 95th would be the same traffic that it would be projected to be received at 95th. You would basically have to add up the ridership that is boarding south of 95th and subtract the bus transfers between buses. Any rail extension though would majorly shake up the service on Halsted, Vincennes and Michigan because those riders would potentially have a station further south. I don't know if it would really make much sense to send buses to 130th/Stony, the projected terminus because that is starting to get really east for Halsted buses, now it could work wonders for something south like Altgeld Gardens or Hegewisch  The area seems kind of industrial and not really walk up friendly. I'm surprised they want a station which looks so isolated, but that's their wish.

[BusHunter]

I would looooooove to see this happen, because it currently takes me over an hour to get to work via Brown > 87 > Blue, or an hour and a half via Brown > Red > Blue, and this would make it probably around a half hour with Brown straight to Blue. It would take a really long time to build, and would be quite expensive, but man would it be useful, and I know tons of people would utilize the extension daily.

Yes and alot of riders sitting in traffic would appreciate it. Traffic is really a bear east of the expressway. They would basically give the whole north shore area access to areas west and even places like Evanston would have a Purple line express act as a feeder to the brown line at belmont. Yeah, it seems to me to be the number 1 missing link they have on rail.

Now if you remember the projected cost of the proposed broadway subway, they were saying that was around 1 billion. This would be less miles than that and if done smartly would only have one subway station at pulaski. Now if they can afford such grandiose stations as 95th, a projected 240 million dollar station, they could build this in segments if they couldn't afford it and make it happen as a long term goal. Just like rebuilding the whole north side main is not going to happen in a year, it will happen in time. We have to ask ourself why the #81 has such high ridership with a rail line beside it? Because it's acting as a brown line extension. Same could be said for the eb #77's, which does really well at the blue line not only west but east too.

[artthouwill]

I like the idea of an extension to Jefferson Park also, though my idea would extend the tracks west on Wilson (or is it Leland?) at grade level, then elevate just before Elston and run elevated via Elston and Lawrence to the Kennedy.  The only fight would be if residents along Leland may not like an L line running down the middle of what used to be a street.,  I would imagine it would be cheaper than boring a subway down Lawrence.  I don't know if I should expect this in my lifetime, seeing that it takes forever for any major transit project to get studied, let alone funded.  Heck, the Second Avenue subway extension in New York has been proposed since after the Depression and Phase one is now being done with no funding in place to complete Phase Two.

[Busjack]

I like the idea of an extension to Jefferson Park also, though my idea would extend the tracks west on Wilson (or is it Leland?) at grade level, then elevate just before Elston and run elevated via Elston and Lawrence to the Kennedy.  The only fight would be if residents along Leland may not like an L line running down the middle of what used to be a street.,  I would imagine it would be cheaper than boring a subway down Lawrence.  I don't know if I should expect this in my lifetime, seeing that it takes forever for any major transit project to get studied, let alone funded.  Heck, the Second Avenue subway extension in New York has been proposed since after the Depression and Phase one is now being done with no funding in place to complete Phase Two.

If you put a third rail electric railway in an existing street, you would have to pay all the abutting landowners for loss of access, which probably means you have to buy all the abutting property. It is also bad enough that there is the occasional frying and grade accidents on a line built to 1907 standards, but CTA certainly wouldn't get away with it 110 years later.

Would be only slightly more feasible if a trolley, but the city would have to authorize that use of the street, and you would have to put trolley equipment on about 200 cars.