Virtual Electric Bus - By Alexander Dennis

[BusHunter]

Was scanning youtube and came across some interesting videos about the virtual electric bus. If I understand this correctly, they are taking a hybrid battery and topping it off at the terminals with a terminal charger and then they can run electrically for longer periods of time. Interesting to say to say the least!! So technically this sounds like the electric bus on a budget. This might get more TA's in the door to this technology, but probably Alexander Dennis has a trademark on the technology. I don't know if someone could come out with it or not and call it for instance the "electric clone bus" and not be sued.

Here's the project video, they claim it runs electric 80 percent of the time, interesting the charger is actually below ground instead of above it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvDDgNbuMSc

and here is a demonstration ride in London

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJ3wmsA5qeo

Or if you want something shorter in length

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BW6TY4Jc0Q

 

[sw4400]

2 hours ago, BusHunter said:

Was scanning youtube and came across some interesting videos about the virtual electric bus. If I understand this correctly, they are taking a hybrid battery and topping it off at the terminals with a terminal charger and then they can run electrically for longer periods of time. Interesting to say to say the least!! So technically this sounds like the electric bus on a budget. This might get more TA's in the door to this technology, but probably Alexander Dennis has a trademark on the technology. I don't know if someone could come out with it or not and call it for instance the "electric clone bus" and not be sued.

Here's the project video, they claim it runs electric 80 percent of the time, interesting the charger is actually below ground instead of above it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvDDgNbuMSc

and here is a demonstration ride in London

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJ3wmsA5qeo

Or if you want something shorter in length

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BW6TY4Jc0Q

 

This should actually be titled "Virtual Hybrid Bus", because according to your quote from the article....

Here's the project video, they claim it runs electric 80 percent of the time...

That is the definition of a Hybrid bus, not an Electric bus. If it ran 100% of the time on electric, then yes. This bus no doubt runs 20% on a low-emission diesel engine.

[Busjack]

Yes, a plug-in hybrid, like these cars.

[BusHunter]

8 hours ago, sw4400 said:

This should actually be titled "Virtual Hybrid Bus", because according to your quote from the article....

Here's the project video, they claim it runs electric 80 percent of the time...

That is the definition of a Hybrid bus, not an Electric bus. If it ran 100% of the time on electric, then yes. This bus no doubt runs 20% on a low-emission diesel engine.

But the definition of virtual is "almost or nearly as described, but not completely or according to strict definition". So it is like an electric bus, 80 percent is not bad and if the batteries fail it has a diesel engine. Do you know of a hybrid bus that runs in hybrid mode 80 percent of the time? Virtual hybrid is almost like saying clean diesel because it's clean like a hybrid. (even though it's not)

What would prove most interesting would be the price which they didn't mention. If it's more than 20 percent cheaper than an electric bus it's a deal compared to all electric, because you might be saving money at the cost of a hybrid. That seems to be the whole point of this bus.

[Busjack]

11 hours ago, BusHunter said:

Do you know of a hybrid bus that runs in hybrid mode 80 percent of the time?

Why don't you click the link to plug in hybrids I posted above? That, for instance is the definition of a Chevy Volt.

Places like Boston and Seattle run their New Flyer hybrid buses in electric mode some of the time.

[BusHunter]

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

Why don't you click the link to plug in hybrids I posted above? That, for instance is the definition of a Chevy Volt.

Places like Boston and Seattle run their New Flyer hybrid buses in electric mode some of the time.

Chevy Volt is labeled as an electric car though. Shouldn't it be a virtual electric? Seattle can run in electric mode but that is with overhead wires!!

[Busjack]

59 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

Chevy Volt is labeled as an electric car though. Shouldn't it be a virtual electric? Seattle can run in electric mode but that is with overhead wires!!

On the first, Chevy Bolt (note the difference in spelling)  is the electric car.

Seattle has some trolley buses, but also uses hybrid buses to replace the Breda dual mode ones.

"Virtual electric" is just a mushmouth term. I remember mentioning earlier here that the shill electrician on "Ask This Old House" referred to plug-in hybrids as "electric cars with a gasoline generator."

[BusHunter]

36 minutes ago, Busjack said:

On the first, Chevy Bolt (note the difference in spelling)  is the electric car.

Seattle has some trolley buses, but also uses hybrid buses to replace the Breda dual mode ones.

"Virtual electric" is just a mushmouth term. I remember mentioning earlier here that the shill electrician on "Ask This Old House" referred to plug-in hybrids as "electric cars with a gasoline generator."

Just don't expect to ride in the backseat of a Volt, unless you are short. That's the first car I ever got in that I was too tall and had to duck my head for the entire ride. Talk about feeling like a giraffe in a car.

I don't see how using a hybrid in a tunnel works unless the bus crawls. Maybe the speed limit is below 25. As far as I know there is no hybrid that functions like an electric or they would be called electrics.

Like the ADL man stated, in order to run in electric mode for extended periods you would have to increase the battery size by as much as 66 percent. I don't know if a DE60LF has the capability in it's engineering to do this. Maybe an Xcelsior because it has already been engineered for all electric so the battery went somewhere and it should be way bigger than the hybrid batteries.

[MTRSP1900-CTA3200]

On February 29, 2016 at 11:37 AM, BusHunter said:

...I don't see how using a hybrid in a tunnel works unless the bus crawls. Maybe the speed limit is below 25. As far as I know there is no hybrid that functions like an electric or they would be called electrics.

Like the ADL man stated, in order to run in electric mode for extended periods you would have to increase the battery size by as much as 66 percent. I don't know if a DE60LF has the capability in it's engineering to do this...

Let a video I took prove you otherwise...  Looks like we're going over 25 at points in the tunnel. I was filming in a DE60LFR, but I've ridden the same route in a DE60LF.

 

Link to page about the operation of "Hush Mode".

[BusHunter]

3 hours ago, MTRSP1900-CTA3200 said:

Let a video I took prove you otherwise...  Looks like we're going over 25 at points in the tunnel. I was filming in a DE60LFR, but I've ridden the same route in a DE60LF.

 

Link to page about the operation of "Hush Mode".

The link page states they use a combination of overhead wires, diesel and battery power. The battery part of it states that it is being run at 15mph. The batteries do say they "charge up" at certain points, but if I understand correctly the regenerative braking does the same on our hybrids, so I'm not entirely sure if this is something unique with the bus or not. But the term "charge up" almost sounds similar to "opportunity charging" the virtual bus states it can do although in a simplified state.

[MTRSP1900-CTA3200]

3 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

The link page states they use a combination of overhead wires, diesel and battery power. The battery part of it states that it is being run at 15mph. The batteries do say they "charge up" at certain points, but if I understand correctly the regenerative braking does the same on our hybrids, so I'm not entirely sure if this is something unique with the bus or not. But the term "charge up" almost sounds similar to "opportunity charging" the virtual bus states it can do although in a simplified state.

True, but none of the buses they have can use all three power sources in one route run. Diesel uses diesel only, Hybrids use diesel and battery only, and overhead wire buses are overhead wire only (the previous tunnel buses were an exception, as they used diesel and overhead wires, but they're retired now since they probably wouldn't play nice with the light rail).

My original claim was that it is possible to run the buses like this in normal service at reasonable speeds, as Seattle has demonstrated. I'm assuming the hush mode simply changes the way the hybrid system charges.

[Busjack]

35 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

The link page states they use a combination of overhead wires, diesel and battery power.

That was the Bredas. It also said that the trolley bus  overhead was taken down in 2005 after the Bredas were retired and replaced with NF hybrids.

 

24 minutes ago, MTRSP1900-CTA3200 said:

I'm assuming the hush mode simply changes the way the hybrid system charges

Again if you read it more closely, the bus stops and charges up before it enters the tunnel, then the diesel propulsion motor is turned off, although there is some diesel power (I assume a power pack) to run the auxiliaries. Most modern buses are the opposite, in that the spec for the CTA 7900s says that the auxiliaries are electric. However it was also said that CTA 700-701 have diesel fuel heaters.

[MTRSP1900-CTA3200]

19 minutes ago, Busjack said:

...Again if you read it more closely, the bus stops and charges up before it enters the tunnel, then the diesel propulsion motor is turned off, although there is some diesel power (I assume a power pack) to run the auxiliaries. Most modern buses are the opposite, in that the spec for the CTA 7900s says that the auxiliaries are electric. However it was also said that CTA 700-701 have diesel fuel heaters.

I did not, as I was using the link more to show that running buses like this is possible, so thanks for that information. In fact, I remember the bus doing what you described at every stop, and at the security check before the tunnel.