Metra battery trainsets

[Busjack]

Looking around the Board meeting minutes, I came across a reference that the following RFP was "on the street":

While I didn't log into the business portal, it appears from the above that Metra is investigating putting battery electric trains on the Rock Island District.

We discussed way back a statement about electrifying the RID, but I bet nobody thought of this.

[Busjack]

From the 2024 Proposed Budget:

"Metra is recommended to receive a $169.32 million grant to purchase 16 zero-emission two-car battery powered trainsets."

"Metra earned a $29 million CMAQ discretionary grant, and the funds will be programmed in 2025 for its new Zero-Emissions Trainsets initiative."

 

[Busjack]

News media has picked up this Metra Press Release that Metra received a $1693 million CMAQ grant for the battery trainsets. It also said:

"The lower-capacity trainsets could be a more economical and environmentally friendly way to provide the same level of service or better, particularly during off-peak times, and could play a significant role in helping Metra achieve its vision to provide more frequent all-day service – so-called regional rail service."

"Metra likely would introduce the trainsets on its Rock Island Line. That would directly benefit the air quality in several economically disadvantaged neighborhoods on the South Side of Chicago and in the south suburbs."

 

[strictures]

11 hours ago, Busjack said:

News media has picked up this Metra Press Release that Metra received a $1693 million CMAQ grant for the battery trainsets. It also said:

"The lower-capacity trainsets could be a more economical and environmentally friendly way to provide the same level of service or better, particularly during off-peak times, and could play a significant role in helping Metra achieve its vision to provide more frequent all-day service – so-called regional rail service."

"Metra likely would introduce the trainsets on its Rock Island Line. That would directly benefit the air quality in several economically disadvantaged neighborhoods on the South Side of Chicago and in the south suburbs."

 

since when has Beverly been called a economically disadvantaged neighborhood?

[artthouwill]

2 hours ago, strictures said:

since when has Beverly been called a economically disadvantaged neighborhood?

The mainline stations at 95th and 103rd, along with  Blue Island,  Robbins, Gresham,  and the not yet opened Auburn Park stations, and Brainerd would all qualify. 

[Busjack]

2 hours ago, artthouwill said:

The mainline stations at 95th and 103rd, along with  Blue Island,  Robbins, Gresham,  and the not yet opened Auburn Park stations, and Brainerd would all qualify. 

Also, the train goes through Englewood and Bronzeville, even though the only stop is 35th. However, compared to the adjoining Dan Ryan, the effect is de minimus.

[Busjack]

On Wednesday's agenda:

Procurement Approving Zero Emissions Train Sets

The staff recommendation is an award to Stadler US, Inc. Siemens was the only other proposer. Apparently Metra is getting something like this.

[Railguy]

Wow a non diesel locomotive and bilevel trainset.  It was only years ago when Metra would Never consider this type of train.

[Busjack]

3 hours ago, Railguy said:

Wow a non diesel locomotive and bilevel trainset.  It was only years ago when Metra would Never consider this type of train.

Your statement is ambiguous. Clearly, what was illustrated is single level, and Metra said something about they could offer more service (or at least more frequent service) with something like this.

Update: CalTrain is buying one bi-level battery train, so anything is still possible.

[Busjack]

The Feb 2024  Committee on Finance video (at about 1:20) had a Stadler video of it. Clip:

Also a slide on the scope of the order:

 

 

[Busjack]

Stadler posted the video on YouTube:

 

[strictures]

10 hours ago, Busjack said:

Stadler posted the video on YouTube:

 

Two problems.

1.  All the trains shown don't use a standard Janney coupler, so what happens when it breaks down?

2.  The train shown has high level boarding & no Metra line has that.  Apparently their low level boarding trains have a step that automatically pushes out when the doors open & retracts when they close for operation.

[Busjack]

35 minutes ago, strictures said:

Two problems.

1.  All the trains shown don't use a standard Janney coupler, so what happens when it breaks down?

2.  The train shown has high level boarding & no Metra line has that.  Apparently their low level boarding trains have a step that automatically pushes out when the doors open & retracts when they close for operation.

1. I'm sure Metra can specify. Aside from whether it can couple to a switcher, it isn't going to couple to anything else.
2. The various models I've seen on YouTube were low floor (e.g. this promo). A British promo video points out the accessibility features. A Canadian fan's plant tour video notes that the KISS (the bi-level model) has low and high level doors, but CalTrain plugged the high doors.

In short, not real objections. I linked the Metra video only as illustrative, and the clip I posted several replies ago looks like low doors to me (certainly lower than the truck skirts).

[OneofthewillsNW]

bleh,  Battery electric is such a bad idea. it would be better to get duel mode stock until proper electrification is done.

[Busjack]

20 hours ago, OneofthewillsNW said:

duel mode stock

What is that?

The Stadler and Siemens battery trainsets seem to work o.k. in Deutschland, and the rationale is that the railroads can run them where there isn't catenary, which sort of refutes your and a New Yawker's call for "full electrification."

Since the theory of the FLIRT is that you cam put any motive source (diesel,  direct electric, fuel cell, or battery) in the middle, and the pantograph can be used either on catenary or with the charger, they seem adequately dual mode to me.

BTW, considering that the RID Beverly branch is similar to the ME S. Chicago, Blue Island, and Kensington services (stop every 1/2 mile), I was thinking about something similar to FLIRT, except ME doesn't need more equipment, and there is the converse to @strictures's post--the ME is all high platform.


-

[OneofthewillsNW]

duel mode means you can run a diesel engine when not under electric, think like the class 802 from uk for example, and east coast Amtrak has the p32l duel modes and the siemens charger has a duel mode config as well which I believe Amtrak has also been using.  they can be implemented currently  and again, full electrification will pay off much more in the long run do to how much more cost effective pure electric stock is.  For reference, the cost of running a pure electric Trax's series like the acs64 is around 30% per year of the cost of a diesel electric. we cant afford not to if we want to be fiscally responsible.  and meanwhile battery electric is so much more expensive then just putting proper electrification especially consittering how few we would be using. like seriously. its like the metra/rta heads are getting swindled into this or something.  remember that the battery packs for these bat electric train sets have to be replaced every few years. (ie about 6 to 8 years) and they will legit cost us at a minimal a third of a train set, thats just not economical. 

[Busjack]

5 hours ago, OneofthewillsNW said:

duel mode means you can run a diesel engine when not under electric...

Duel is using swords or pistols.

Dual as you described is just adding a battery to a diesel electromotive, making a hybrid but not making it zero emissions, and thus probably not a good investment.

[Busjack]

6 hours ago, OneofthewillsNW said:

we cant afford not to if we want to be fiscally responsible.

If Metra wants to be fiscally responsible, besides you ignoring the cost of feeders, substations, structure,  catenary, and passenger cars these trainsets would replace, you forgot or ignored that Metra received a $169.3 million CMAQ grant for this project.  Since I assume the feds can print money, I ask again, should Metra give back the money so that some other area gets it?

[artthouwill]

9 hours ago, OneofthewillsNW said:

duel mode means you can run a diesel engine when not under electric, think like the class 802 from uk for example, and east coast Amtrak has the p32l duel modes and the siemens charger has a duel mode config as well which I believe Amtrak has also been using.  they can be implemented currently  and again, full electrification will pay off much more in the long run do to how much more cost effective pure electric stock is.  For reference, the cost of running a pure electric Trax's series like the acs64 is around 30% per year of the cost of a diesel electric. we cant afford not to if we want to be fiscally responsible.  and meanwhile battery electric is so much more expensive then just putting proper electrification especially consittering how few we would be using. like seriously. its like the metra/rta heads are getting swindled into this or something.  remember that the battery packs for these bat electric train sets have to be replaced every few years. (ie about 6 to 8 years) and they will legit cost us at a minimal a third of a train set, thats just not economical. 

So where does the money come from to build the electricity infrastructure?  Where does rhe money come from to replace the entire fleet of rail cars? Where does the money come from to pay for the electricity, which  by the way is becoming more expensive  ? 

[busfan2847]

9 hours ago, artthouwill said:

So where does the money come from to build the electricity infrastructure?  Where does rhe money come from to replace the entire fleet of rail cars? Where does the money come from to pay for the electricity, which  by the way is becoming more expensive  ? 

Or to generate and deliver that much electricity, if everything goes EV!

[Busjack]

4 hours ago, busfan2847 said:

Or to generate and deliver that much electricity, if everything goes EV!

Between catenary and battery, that's probably a wash. Probably also a wash with fuel cell, considering the energy needed to generate the hydrogen.

The essential problem, as I noted, is that our duelist hasn't come up with the $186 million federal money for whatever inadequate substitution he is proposing, nor a cost estimate for  implementing it. The batteries in a diesel-electric hybrid would have to be replaced periodically, too.