9000-series

[Busjack]

50 minutes ago, Nitro said:

The parts are cheaper to import if they are manufactured domestically or another neighboring country like Canada or some shit. It's like BMW & Mercedes Benz. In Europe their cars are priced much cheaper thanks to their vicinity to the country that the parts were manufactured in. Meanwhile in the United States owning a BMW or Mercedes is quite costly unless you buy them at a cheaper price from a used dealership.

 

41 minutes ago, Nitro said:

You want to know about that. It's everything you can think about. The trucks, traction systems, motors, body shells, & bogies, Everything you need to know about what's being produced from manufacturing plants across the country. Then add the costs of shipping the parts over to Chicago with the order per railcar. You can guess the cost per railcar however consider the importing costs as well. 

How many of them are 70% most of the newer subway car orders were delayed, had issues with the manufacturer, and broke down, Most of the parts imported aren’t from the United States anymore. Since Alstom, Siemens, Kawasaki, & China already took over most of the railroad industry.

Two more of your irrelevancies. 70% of the parts have to be made in their entirety in the U.S., regardless of the ownership of the company.

As they say in New York, get your head out of your tuchus.

[MTRSP1900-CTA3200]

6 hours ago, Nitro said:

You want to know about that. It's everything you can think about. The trucks, traction systems, motors, body shells, & bogies, Everything you need to know about what's being produced from manufacturing plants across the country. Then add the costs of shipping the parts over to Chicago with the order per railcar. You can guess the cost per railcar however consider the importing costs as well. 

How many of them are 70% most of the newer subway car orders were delayed, had issues with the manufacturer, and broke down, Most of the parts imported aren’t from the United States anymore. Since Alstom, Siemens, Kawasaki, & China already took over most of the railroad industry.

Literally nothing in your reply had anything to do with answering my question, and at this point you’ve had multiple forum members explain why you’re wrong about various things that you have posted, not just on this thread, but on multiple ones in addition to this one now too. I don’t know what you’re trying to prove but at this point I don’t care because:

1. As others have stated, *multiple times*, at least 70% of components in railcars have to be made here in the US, regardless of what company is assembling the cars, and regardless of how many unsubstantiated claims you say about it being the opposite. Speaking of unsubstantiated claims:

2. One of the community guidelines/forum rules says: “Backup facts and explain your positions. If making a statement of fact, always provide supporting evidence. For opinions or suggestions, always provide justification for your position. For example, do not suggest changes to CTA routes or operations without providing reasonable justification.”

Not only is saying things without a source a big pet peeve of mine, it also makes you sound ridiculous, untrustworthy, and generally annoying. Please stop doing that.

[Nitro]

3 hours ago, MTRSP1900-CTA3200 said:

Literally nothing in your reply had anything to do with answering my question, and at this point you’ve had multiple forum members explain why you’re wrong about various things that you have posted, not just on this thread, but on multiple ones in addition to this one now too. I don’t know what you’re trying to prove but at this point I don’t care because:

1. As others have stated, *multiple times*, at least 70% of components in railcars have to be made here in the US, regardless of what company is assembling the cars, and regardless of how many unsubstantiated claims you say about it being the opposite. Speaking of unsubstantiated claims:

2. One of the community guidelines/forum rules says: “Backup facts and explain your positions. If making a statement of fact, always provide supporting evidence. For opinions or suggestions, always provide justification for your position. For example, do not suggest changes to CTA routes or operations without providing reasonable justification.”

Not only is saying things without a source a big pet peeve of mine, it also makes you sound ridiculous, untrustworthy, and generally annoying. Please stop doing that.

I do have evidence to back up this fact. I already have these articles posted if you @Busjack and @Sam92 want to read. Since none of you know the new policies that were implemented before and after the infrastructure bill.

https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/news-wire/news-report-describes-toxic-environment-at-crrc-factory-manufacturing-mbta-cars/

https://reasonstobecheerful.world/make-trains-not-war/

https://www.americanmanufacturing.org/blog/remember-the-crrc-boston-rail-car-project-its-shaping-up-to-be-quite-the-boondoggle/

[Sam92]

2 hours ago, Nitro said:

I do have evidence to back up this fact. I already have these articles posted if you @Busjack and @Sam92 want to read. Since none of you know the new policies that were implemented before and after the infrastructure bill.

https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/news-wire/news-report-describes-toxic-environment-at-crrc-factory-manufacturing-mbta-cars/

https://reasonstobecheerful.world/make-trains-not-war/

https://www.americanmanufacturing.org/blog/remember-the-crrc-boston-rail-car-project-its-shaping-up-to-be-quite-the-boondoggle/

Just go away at this point dude. Catch a hint. You're causing the same drama you claim to have left in the other forum. Please seek a mental health evaluation and LISTEN FOR ONCE

[Busjack]

6 hours ago, Nitro said:

I do have evidence to back up this fact. I already have these articles posted if you @Busjack and @Sam92 want to read. Since none of you know the new policies that were implemented before and after the infrastructure bill.

https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/news-wire/news-report-describes-toxic-environment-at-crrc-factory-manufacturing-mbta-cars/

https://reasonstobecheerful.world/make-trains-not-war/

https://www.americanmanufacturing.org/blog/remember-the-crrc-boston-rail-car-project-its-shaping-up-to-be-quite-the-boondoggle/

• I don't know why you post links when you have demonstrated you don't read the links you yourself post (AAR on electrification) or you post links to stuff like Wikipedia or bicyclist blogs and think they are authoritative. Here you posted another blog.
• Everyone knows that CRRC MA is a mess (and hence it is unnecessary to read some train PR magazine to that effect). But unlike you saying that the federal government required that MBTA use them, it passed a law that CRRC can't have any new U.S. customers, so they'll be out of the market shortly. Nonetheless they are using U.S. parts. Someone posted that a delay with the 7000s was due to KSU having issues. I don't know if that rumor was ever substantiated, but, whatever the supply chain issue was, and despite a German company having an interest in KSU, they only had to ship the seats from 3000 Madison St., Bellwood, Illinois to 13500 S. Torrence Ave., Chicago, IL, a distance of 35 miles (Google Map).
• One of CRRC's inducements to both MBTA and Chicago was that it will hire local labor. Maybe a more convincing argument could be made that U.S. workers are incompetent.

Other than that, @MTRSP1900-CTA3200 is absolutely correct that you have violated the Community Guidelines, and while I won't go as far as @Sam92, you're obviously sleep posting at 5 a.m. your time. You have shown no interest in engaging with the community members here, you claim to be an expert on Chicago by (allegedly) having been once here and once ridden the South Shore to Hegwisch (not even to Indiana), and, basically you have not provided any evidence on such things as what advantage Metra would have placing 12.5 kv catenary  over tracks owned by freight railroads. In fact, I bet you don't even know why the Pennsy electrified east of Harrisburg. Don't reply "no, I do," provide some description of the history.

Whatever your motivation, you're just a foolish spammer, and take your phony act elsewhere.

[Nitro]

12 minutes ago, Busjack said:

• I don't know why you post links when you have demonstrated you don't read the links you yourself post (AAR on electrification) or you post links to stuff like Wikipedia or bicyclist blogs and think they are authoritative. Here you posted another blog.
• Everyone knows that CRRC MA is a mess (and hence it is unnecessary to read some train PR magazine to that effect). But unlike you saying that the federal government required that MBTA use them, it passed a law that CRRC can't have any new U.S. customers, so they'll be out of the market shortly. Nonetheless they are using U.S. parts. Someone posted that a delay with the 7000s was due to KSU having issues. I don't know if that rumor was ever substantiated, but, whatever the supply chain issue was, and despite a German company having an interest in KSU, they only had to ship the seats from 3000 Madison St., Bellwood, Illinois to 13500 S. Torrence Ave., Chicago, IL, a distance of 35 miles (Google Map).
• One of CRRC's inducements to both MBTA and Chicago was that it will hire local labor, Maybe a more convincing argument could be made that U.S. workers are incompetent.

Other than that, @MTRSP1900-CTA3200 is absolutely correct that you have violated the Community Guidelines, and while I won't go as far as @Sam92, you're obviously sleep posting at 5 a.m. your time. You have shown no interest in engaging with the community members here, you claim to be an expert on Chicago by (allegedly) having been once here and once ridden the South Shore to Hegwisch (not even to Indiana), and, basically you have not provided any evidence on such things as what advantage Metra would have placing 12.5 kv catenary  over tracks owned by freight railroads. In fact, I bet you don't even know why the Pennsy electrified. Don't reply "no, I do," provide some description of the history.

Whatever your motivation, you're just a foolish spammer, and take your phony act elsewhere.

U.S workers would be competent if they didn't have to wait for the parts to be shipped over to the United States. Though this isn't the case since we are in a trade war with China and transit agencies are in intense pressure because they thought buying from China would fix the economy to create competition in the subway market. Plus add in the sanctions given on the company. The federal government allowed these agencies to buy from the CRRC thanks to the current administration that reversed this decision in 2021. Anyways the 7000s were placed on hold for two years already thanks to COVID and Trump's policies with tariffs on China.

I can list an advantage of upgrading voltages. Faster acceleration and deceleration times, and Increased speeds with updated PTC software which makes trains more reliable.

The lowered voltages are weak currents of AC/DC electricity which was one of the factors that helped contribute to the power outages on the NEC from NYC to DC, Metra & South Shore Lines as well. If you want to refute what I just stated that's fine. This is a discussion anyways. I'm using both logistics, economics, with science to back my statements.

The New Haven Line? They became more reliable because they upgraded their voltages in 1985. The M2s/M4s & M6s were phased out by the M8s which I know was intentional since their predecessors were made out of stainless steel and could have lasted 6-7 years by now, Thanks to Kawasaki cutting back on Stainless Steel and willfully not revealing information to the public which is a right unless the project is private/classified, Though because this is public transportation it is unacceptable. Metra/SSL could easily do what AMTRAK & Metro North did at the cheapest expense since they own the electrified ROWs. Metra is underfunded and with infrequent trains they have including SSL which during middays have trains run by 2 hours when you look at their schedules. It's time for the upgrades.

Kawasaki has issues of its own when it came to that order thanks to the FRA being underfunded and corruption running around the federal government and transit agencies which can be blamed for any transit decision gone wrong. You're not seeing the larger picture or the domino ripple effect on not just Chicago but every U.S state with commuter rail/rapid transit. Use basic science.

However despite the fact that I love Metra's F40PH locomotives and the SSL Single Level EMU Trains. It's time for them to get their shit together. If London could do that so can my home state, New Jersey, & Illinois which is abundant in rail infrastructure that can support, build, and accommodate multiple conventional rail/rapid transit lines by using abandoned and new right of ways.

I'm not claiming to be some grand expert in Chicago. I'm simply presenting the flaws and solutions.

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, Nitro said:

U.S workers would be competent if they didn't have to wait for the parts to be shipped over to the United States.

Again, your premise is false. I demonstrated above that the parts that were supposedly holding up production in Hegewisch were 35 miles away.

BTW, when you say you took the South Shore to Hegewisch, did you visit the CRRC plant next door? What did you see there?

It might be argued that Chinese managers don't know how to manage U.S. workers, but it is the U.S. workers who can't assemble the products correctly or on time.

 

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, Nitro said:

I'm not claiming to be some grand expert in Chicago. I'm simply presenting the flaws and solutions.

At least you provided some explanation, but (1) you're not an engineer but a foamer, (2) you don't know what the cost would be to rebuild, say 250 electric cars and where Metra and NICTD would get the money, plus rebuild the substation and the like, (3) there are plenty of problems in your own back yard.

For instance, while all transit agencies have capital backlogs, MTA 20-Year Needs Assessment has such items as:

• Without more aggressive intervention, the deteriorating structural beams holding up the 110-year-old Train Shed at Grand Central Terminal—that supports Park Avenue and provides a roof for trains—is at risk of failure, suspending Metro-North service into Manhattan.

• In 20 years, more than 75% of the New York City subway major power substation components will be more than half a century old, risking extended power outages across the system and potentially shutting down multiple lines.

• Replace antiquated signals, switches, and interlockings—on subways and on commuter railroads—that contribute to lengthy delays and upgrade our power systems to meet our needs into the future.

• Install modern signals across 80% of the subway system to allow us to safely run more trains closer together and improve on-time performance.

• Ensure the system is ready for all kinds of extreme weather—all subway stations, railroad lines, and critical infrastructure will be protected from climate threats.

I'm not making these up in my sleep--that's official MTA policy. And whatever the benefit of raising the voltage on the NH, it is going to make no difference if the Metro North can't run because the train shed roof is going to collapse.

Chicago may have its problems, but certainly NOTHING LIKE THIS. Thus, nobody around here is going to take an interloper's "advice."

[Nitro]

41 minutes ago, Busjack said:

At least you provided some explanation, but (1) you're not an engineer but a foamer, (2) you don't know what the cost would be to rebuild, say 250 electric cars and where Metra and NICTD would get the money, plus rebuild the substation and the like, (3) there are plenty of problems in your own back yard.

For instance, while all transit agencies have capital backlogs, MTA 20-Year Needs Assessment has such items as:

• Without more aggressive intervention, the deteriorating structural beams holding up the 110-year-old Train Shed at Grand Central Terminal—that supports Park Avenue and provides a roof for trains—is at risk of failure, suspending Metro-North service into Manhattan.

• In 20 years, more than 75% of the New York City subway major power substation components will be more than half a century old, risking extended power outages across the system and potentially shutting down multiple lines.

• Replace antiquated signals, switches, and interlockings—on subways and on commuter railroads—that contribute to lengthy delays and upgrade our power systems to meet our needs into the future.

• Install modern signals across 80% of the subway system to allow us to safely run more trains closer together and improve on-time performance.

• Ensure the system is ready for all kinds of extreme weather—all subway stations, railroad lines, and critical infrastructure will be protected from climate threats.

I'm not making these up in my sleep--that's official MTA policy. And whatever the benefit of raising the voltage on the NH, it is going to make no difference if the Metro North can't run because the train shed roof is going to collapse.

Chicago may have its problems, but certainly NOTHING LIKE THIS. Thus, nobody around here is going to take an interloper's "advice."

I'm not a foamer at all. I'm a realistic type of person who films the subway, buses and the railroads though I am not a railfanner.

[Busjack]

26 minutes ago, Nitro said:

I'm not a foamer at all. I'm a realistic type of person who films the subway, buses and the railroads though I am not a railfanner.

You aren't an engineer.

You aren't any different than the people whose videos are cited in the Transit Punditry topic.

If you have film of CTA, Metra or NICTD, post the links here. All I saw on your Instagram feed was one CTA car. (Admittedly, I gave up when I hit a Rectumbook sign-on banner.)

[Busjack]

21 hours ago, Bus1883 said:

Where’d you hear this from? The 7000s are not canceled, they’re not doing the options after the BASE ORDER

Although CTA didn't say that either, that's a reasonable inference from what CTA did say. We started discussing it here in the 7000s topic.

To summarize what I figured:

• There's something wrong with the relationship with CRRC, or the specifications for the 7000s, or something like that.
• However, since CTA said "Funding ...will ... allow the agency to begin planning and designing for the future procurement of its next generation of railcars – the 9000-Series," if the past pattern is followed, CTA will have to allow time to design the cars, advertise and take bids, and once the prototypes are delivered, a year to test them around the system. I figure that production cars won't be delivered for at least 3  years.
• CTA isn't canceling the base order, due to this timeline, and it would take something like the NABI debacle to do that. Although CTA management lied to the Board about why it had to lease 150 DE60s, there were indications such as NABIs going on hold, and being pulled for engineers to inspect them, that a default was going to be declared. As far as we know, that hasn't happened here.

[Sam92]

51 minutes ago, Busjack said:

Although CTA didn't say that either, that's a reasonable inference from what CTA did say. We started discussing it here in the 7000s topic.

To summarize what I figured:

• There's something wrong with the relationship with CRRC, or the specifications for the 7000s, or something like that.
• However, since CTA said "Funding ...will ... allow the agency to begin planning and designing for the future procurement of its next generation of railcars – the 9000-Series," if the past pattern is followed, CTA will have to allow time to design the cars, advertise and take bids, and once the prototypes are delivered, a year to test them around the system. I figure that production cars won't be delivered for at least 3  years.
• CTA isn't canceling the base order, due to this timeline, and it would take something like the NABI debacle to do that. Although CTA management lied to the Board about why it had to lease 150 DE60s, there were indications such as NABIs going on hold, and being pulled for engineers to inspect them, that a default was going to be declared. As far as we know, that hasn't happened here.

I figured they already committed to the base order but aren't too satisfied with the cars enough to exercise the options.... Maybe they want to have series that can pair with each other? Like @Busjack says it doesn't look like an NABI situation yet

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, Sam92 said:

Maybe they want to have series that can pair with each other?

That, though, seemed to be the fly in the ointment twice (3500 specification to pair with 3200s withdrawn, resulting in the 5000s, and 7000 specification to pair with the 5000s withdrawn). If the only concern were compatibility, CTA wouldn't have announced designing a new series.

[Busjack]

Although the 2024 Budget (page 83 of the pdf) is a bit inconsistent in this description of the 5 year capital program for the 7000s and 9000s (having brought forward the old description of the 7000s), the 9000s description seems clearer:

Quote

Funding to acquire new 9000-Series rail cars, CTA anticipates the contract will consist of a Base Order to purchase 300 cars and option(s) for an additional 246 cars. CTA purchased 600 of the 600-Series rail cars from The Budd Company that were delivered between 1981 to 1987. There are currently 493 of the cars remaining in service. An ongoing 7000-Series procurement will replace a portion (approximately 190) of these cars. This future rail car procurement will fund base order, which is planned to replace the remaining ~300 of the 2600-Series cars and Option(s) to replace the 3200-Series cars.

There seems to be some juggling of the numbers to make sure that the grant is for 300 replacements, and maybe they figure that approx. 210 of the 7000s are for "expansion" contemplated by the last 2 options for 190 cars in the 7000s contract. Looks like the 3200s will be around longer than expected.

Speculation: Maybe 9000s go directly to the Orange and Brown Lines to replace 2600s there directly.

[Jackson Blue Line]

5 hours ago, Busjack said:

Although the 2024 Budget (page 83 of the pdf) is a bit inconsistent in this description of the 5 year capital program for the 7000s and 9000s (having brought forward the old description of the 7000s), the 9000s description seems clearer:

There seems to be some juggling of the numbers to make sure that the grant is for 300 replacements, and maybe they figure that approx. 210 of the 7000s are for "expansion" contemplated by the last 2 options for 190 cars in the 7000s contract. Looks like the 3200s will be around longer than expected.

Speculation: Maybe 9000s go directly to the Orange and Brown Lines to replace 2600s there directly.

Looks like it is going to take a while just to replace the 2600s. Unfortunately, it seems as if we are going to have the 3200s for at least 5-10 more years, which is sad because they are no better than the 2600s.

[Sam92]

5 hours ago, Busjack said:

Although the 2024 Budget (page 83 of the pdf) is a bit inconsistent in this description of the 5 year capital program for the 7000s and 9000s (having brought forward the old description of the 7000s), the 9000s description seems clearer:

There seems to be some juggling of the numbers to make sure that the grant is for 300 replacements, and maybe they figure that approx. 210 of the 7000s are for "expansion" contemplated by the last 2 options for 190 cars in the 7000s contract. Looks like the 3200s will be around longer than expected.

Speculation: Maybe 9000s go directly to the Orange and Brown Lines to replace 2600s there directly.

Now I'm confused as to how we already had a bloat but yet 7000s only replace 190 out of 500 2600s? I thought the base order would nearly knock all 2600s off with subsequent orders starting on the 3200s? Your assumption of 9000s going to orange and brown would basically bring the system back to how it was when I was born where brown and orange again end up with the newest cars, red/blue with the mid range and pink/green/purple/yellow with older cars (of course yellow had newer cars back in the high performance car era)

[Jackson Blue Line]

6 minutes ago, Sam92 said:

Now I'm confused as to how we already had a bloat but yet 7000s only replace 190 out of 500 2600s? I thought the base order would nearly knock all 2600s off with subsequent orders starting on the 3200s? Your assumption of 9000s going to orange and brown would basically bring the system back to how it was when I was born where brown and orange again end up with the newest cars, red/blue with the mid range and pink/green/purple/yellow with older cars (of course yellow had newer cars back in the high performance car era)

They did not state why only 190 cars will be delivered but it is most certainly the case that they decided to cut down the order to 190 cars due to all of the issues with CRRC. They will probably use the 190 7000s to replace the 2600s that are in the worst condition, and most of the 2600s will stay around until the production of the 9000s starts.

[Sam92]

20 minutes ago, Jackson Blue Line said:

They did not state why only 190 cars will be delivered but it is most certainly the case that they decided to cut down the order to 190 cars due to all of the issues with CRRC. They will probably use the 190 7000s to replace the 2600s that are in the worst condition, and most of the 2600s will stay around until the production of the 9000s starts.

Wait when did the order get cut from 400 cars to 190? The report doesn't say the order was cut just that somehow 400 7000s somehow only replaces 190 2600s. I'll reread and double check though cause I might have missed it 

[Bus1883]

7 hours ago, Jackson Blue Line said:

They did not state why only 190 cars will be delivered but it is most certainly the case that they decided to cut down the order to 190 cars due to all of the issues with CRRC. They will probably use the 190 7000s to replace the 2600s that are in the worst condition, and most of the 2600s will stay around until the production of the 9000s starts.

I’m getting thrown off on this, what happened to 400 #7000s to phase out 400 #2600s? 190 cars is crazy. It makes sense to replace the remaining #2600s with the base order of the 7000s which was ORIGINALLY planned. If there’s around 490 cars left if u bring out 400 #7000s, that’ll take out 400 #2600s then that’ll leave us with 90ish cars left or use the #9000’s to start swiping out the last 90 or so cars. Why wait for the next series that is years away from production and has not yet to be designed? which makes the #2600s way prolonged than expected. If that becomes the case then all 400 cards of the #7000s will be only on one line while #9000s will cover the Brown or Orange Lines or both. 

[Tcmetro]

The budget says they're still buying the base order 400 7000-series cars. Of the 2600s, 190 will be replaced by the new 7000s, the remaining 300 would be replaced by the 9000-series. 

 

CTA current rail fleet:

2600s - 493 cars

3200s - 255 cars

5000s - 714 cars

7000s - 48 cars

Total - 1,510 cars 

 

CTA post-7000s fleet (per capital budget)

2600s - 303 cars

3200s - 255 cars

5000s - 714 cars

7000s - 400 cars

Total - 1,672 cars

 

CTA post-9000 base order fleet (per capital budget)

3200s - 255 cars

5000s - 714 cars

7000s - 400 cars

9000s - 300 cars

Total - 1,669 cars

 

CTA post-9000 base and options fleet (per capital budget)

5000s - 714 cars

7000s - 400 cars

9000s - 546 cars

Total - 1,660 cars

 

So basically, the CTA is planning on growing the fleet by 150 cars. 

I did some back of the napkin math on fleet needs for the Red Line Extension (at 3 minute frequencies, a 30 minute round-trip time increase, and 20% spare ratio), and that totals about 96 cars. 

Isn't it the case that the Green Line Cottage Grove rebuild will allow that line to run 8-car trains? Something like that would easily take another 40 or 50 cars.

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, Tcmetro said:

The budget says they're still buying the base order 400 7000-series cars. Of the 2600s, 190 will be replaced by the new 7000s, the remaining 300 would be replaced by the 9000-series. 

 

.........

So basically, the CTA is planning on growing the fleet by 150 cars. 

I did some back of the napkin math on fleet needs for the Red Line Extension (at 3 minute frequencies, a 30 minute round-trip time increase, and 20% spare ratio), and that totals about 96 cars. 

Isn't it the case that the Green Line Cottage Grove rebuild will allow that line to run 8-car trains? Something like that would easily take another 40 or 50 cars.

That's essentially correct. The contract for the 7000s was:

• Base order: 400 (presumably replace 2600s)
• Options: 256 (presumably to replace 3200s)
• Expansion: 190

The numbers here are essentially the same, except they are assuming 490 2600s are on the roster. Since the grant was to replace 300 2600s with 9000s, that's what the budget says CTA is doing.  Since that's 190 short, that 190 will be 7000s. Oher switcheroo is that the replacement for the 3200s will be an option for 256 9000s, and it doesn't say for what the remaining 210 7000s are to be used. I'm assuming expansion.

Similarly thinking about RLE and RPM, CTA has said that about 84 cars would be needed for RLE, and about 84 cars would be needed for reduced headways and/or 10-car trains on the Red Line generally. That's approx. 170 of the 210 cars. The only thing that makes me scratch my head is why the expansion seems to get priority in time over replacing the 3200s.

[Tcmetro]

11 minutes ago, Busjack said:

Similarly thinking about RLE and RPM, CTA has said that about 84 cars would be needed for RLE, and about 84 cars would be needed for reduced headways and/or 10-car trains on the Red Line generally. That's approx. 170 of the 210 cars. The only thing that makes me scratch my head is why the expansion seems to get priority in time over replacing the 3200s.

Two things come to mind:

• The RLE is coming online in 2029. I can't imagine the 9000s will be delivered until 2027 or 2028 at the earliest, with deliveries extending for another 3 years. That will require the 3200s to be in service until the options on the 9000s order are delivered.
• CTA may be attempting to mitigate a massive car shortage (like WMATA experienced recently) if the 7000s and 9000s end up being lemons and need modifications.

[Busjack]

56 minutes ago, Tcmetro said:

if the 7000s and 9000s end up being lemons and need modifications.

That also makes me wonder about the 7000s, if CTA says it needs a new design for the 9000s. If it is just dissatisfaction with CRRC, I don't know how CTA could keep CRRC from bidding the next time.

On the other hand, while I engaged in a little speculation, it's probably too early to determine what lines get what cars, but unless CTA does something like take the 5000s off the Green and Pink Lines and move them to Red, the Red and Blue Lines will be running mixed fleets.

[Javi75]

On 10/20/2023 at 10:40 AM, Busjack said:

That also makes me wonder about the 7000s, if CTA says it needs a new design for the 9000s. If it is just dissatisfaction with CRRC, I don't know how CTA could keep CRRC from bidding the next time.

On the other hand, while I engaged in a little speculation, it's probably too early to determine what lines get what cars, but unless CTA does something like take the 5000s off the Green and Pink Lines and move them to Red, the Red and Blue Lines will be running mixed fleets.

I could see CTA fully equipping the blue line with 7000s then when the 9000s come, send the 7000s to brown, orange and possibly pink. Fully equip the green line with the rest of the 9000s sending its 5000s to the red line. Red, purple and yellow would have all 5000s. In another scenario factoring RLE would 546 9000s be enough for red, purple and yellow? 

[Busjack]

7 minutes ago, Javi75 said:

I could see CTA fully equipping the blue line with 7000s then when the 9000s come, send the 7000s to brown, orange and possibly pink. Fully equip the green line with the rest of the 9000s sending its 5000s to the red line. Red, purple and yellow would have all 5000s. In another scenario factoring RLE would 546 9000s be enough for red, purple and yellow? 

The answer to your last question is probably not. Assuming 218 or so cars at 54th yard and the Green Line, that's 496 cars on R, Y, P. RLE would require another 84 cars. I think moving 5000s from Pink and Green is more likely.