[Speculative] Possible NITA bus planning ideas

[Busjack]

IIRC, when thie :Regiona; Transit Planning" category was created, @MetroShadow said something like, :even though that's an oxymoron." Now, that NITA will have responsibility for service planning and construction, it is time to mull over or revive some ideas, primariiy crossing Chicago city limits.

• 385: Someone once asked why not extend 87, and I said that infringed Pace territory. Now tat there is supposed to be unified planning, I don't see what a route like 385, which snakes around to avoid the city limits, accomplishes, and 87 and 112 could be extended.
• Whatever remains of the North Shore Coordination Plan to replace 54A with some Pace route connecting at Jefferson Park, and extending 54 or reinstating X54 to Jefferson Park.
• 201 south of Howard was on the [speculative] Service Changes after 2025 list, which CTA could implement on its own.
• 90/318 changes also implied by that list, and better coordination with 307.
• Although 155A and 211 were discontinued, maybe extend some 155 trips to Cumberland Blue Line.
• Halsted and 95th Pulse have interagency cooperation, but construction probably will be taken over by NITA, and maybe this could lead the way to an X8 connecting with Halsted Pulse at 95th. 

Any other ideas?

Edited 10 hours ago by MetroShadow
Speculation

[renardo870]

With the 385 routing, I wonder how many riders go to Midway/Orange Line from 87th or 111th or even Alsip when you can ride 383, 384 and 386 to Midway and the 382 should be restored and a new Roberts Road route to the Orange. But I kinda like the idea of 87 and 112 being extended and the 53A could go to Rivercrest Mall.

Definitely extend 54 and/or restore X54 to Jefferson Park. I would also like to see if that North Shore plan will be revived.

With 307/318 going to convert to Pulse routes in the future, the 90 should extend to Forest Park Blue Line Terminal. 

155 to Cumberland could work.

With 352 running Pulse like service between 95th and 127th 24/7, maybe CTA can restore the local 108 24/7.

[Busjack]

3 hours ago, renardo870 said:

With 352 running Pulse like service between 95th and 127th 24/7, maybe CTA can restore the local 108 24/7.

My understanding of the proposal is that 108 would be canned, as Pulse would adequately serve 95th, and 8A serving 79th would be enhanced.

3 hours ago, renardo870 said:

With 307/318 going to convert to Pulse routes in the future, the 90 should extend to

Seems 307/318 Pulse is REALLY in the future, while the CTA planning sheet implied, if done at all, in the next couple of years.-**-

[Sam92]

4 hours ago, renardo870 said:

With the 385 routing, I wonder how many riders go to Midway/Orange Line from 87th or 111th or even Alsip when you can ride 383, 384 and 386 to Midway and the 382 should be restored and a new Roberts Road route to the Orange. But I kinda like the idea of 87 and 112 being extended and the 53A could go to Rivercrest Mall.

 

 

On 11/14/2025 at 1:51 PM, Busjack said:

IIRC, when thie :Regiona; Transit Planning" category was created, @MetroShadow said something like, :even though that's an oxymoron." Now, that NITA will have responsibility for service planning and construction, it is time to mull over or revive some ideas, primariiy crossing Chicago city limits.

• 385: Someone once asked why not extend 87, and I said that infringed Pace territory. Now tat there is supposed to be unified planning, I don't see what a route like 385, which snakes around to avoid the city limits, accomplishes, and 87 and 112 could be extended.
•  

Any other ideas?

The 87 extension sounds a bit tricky since 385 has hourly headways meaning another short turn to add... How about reroute 384 instead via 87th since it's also hourly and 379 can still handle 79th? The 112 extension could work since it has demand for like 25-30 min headways so that simply means cutting back every other bus at Pulaski.... but also you could replace the Morraine Valley - Blue Island segment with an extension of 348 which also runs similar headways to 385. The routes @renardo870mentioned can take people to the Orange Line so with the suggested changes you can get rid of 385

 

[Busjack]

2 hours ago, Sam92 said:

How about reroute 384 instead via 87th since it's also hourly

What's suppose to handle Ridgeland between 87th and 111th?

[Sam92]

3 hours ago, Busjack said:

What's suppose to handle Ridgeland between 87th and 111th?

384 still. Reroute via Cicero, 87th, Ridgeland and then south from there. I know that removes service on 87th west of Ridgeland but the headways aren't attractive compared to 381 and 379 which also run 7 days a week. 379 also goes to Moraine from Midway like 385. Maybe during rush hours the service on 87th west of Ridgeland and between 79th and 87th on Ridgeland can be done by 3 or so select 379 trips that would deviate via Ridgeland and 87th. 

[Busjack]

@Sam92, maybe I should say whay's wrong with your whole approach:

• The premise of this topic was that with NITA planning, city-suburban coordination could be improved. In effect, I retreated from my position that a broke CTA should not poach Pace territory with stuff like 90 resulting in cutbacks to 307. Any Pace only changes fall within the scope of ReVision.
• If anything was gained from all the money blpwn on Jarrett Walker, ir was that convoluted routes and once an hour frequency do not grow ridership. 385 hits me as a really bad example of a coverage model, somewhat constrained by political issues. With that constraint removed, I reject your basic approach that:
  • existing inadequate frequencies should dictate future routings/
  • let's just tinker with the routes and make them more convoluted.and drive away more riders.

In short, as in the 201 discussion, you missed the point. I like some of @renardo870;s ideas on how to handle Crestwood and Roberts Road. And I'm sorry that my Ridgeland Ave. question was a diversion.

[Sam92]

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

@Sam92, maybe I should say whay's wrong with your whole approach:

• The premise of this topic was that with NITA planning, city-suburban coordination could be improved. In effect, I retreated from my position that a broke CTA should not poach Pace territory with stuff like 90 resulting in cutbacks to 307. Any Pace only changes fall within the scope of ReVision.
• If anything was gained from all the money blpwn on Jarrett Walker, ir was that convoluted routes and once an hour frequency do not grow ridership. 385 hits me as a really bad example of a coverage model, somewhat constrained by political issues. With that constraint removed, I reject your basic approach that:
  • existing inadequate frequencies should dictate future routings/
  • let's just tinker with the routes and make them more convoluted.and drive away more riders.

In short, as in the 201 discussion, you missed the point. I like some of @renardo870;s ideas on how to handle Crestwood and Roberts Road. And I'm sorry that my Ridgeland Ave. question was a diversion.

I think we have different approaches to the same goal. Here's what me you and @renardo870agree on. Someone on say the 111th portion would be better off taking 383, 384, 53a or 379 to get to the Orange Line vs going west, north then east on 385. You want to retain the 111th and 87th street portions. The only reason one of us from out south would go from say 89th and Cottage to anywhere pass Cicero would be either Morraine Valley, Chicago Ridge or Bidgeview Courthouse which are already handled by 379 and 381 which are reasonably close and more frequent, straighter options than 385. Also 79 and 95 which connect to them are FBN which make 87th even less competitive. If you're along 87th between Western and Cicero again 381 and the connections to it are more convenient vs the 87 and 385's headways. Also 385 got untouched while some of the other routes mentioned did get increases so that might mean the east-west streets it covers wouldn't justify an increase that an extended 87 or 111 provided. So I've retained some coverage on 87th up to Ridgeland via a rerouted 384 (same midway connection provided by 385, 79th still has 379). I think the H trips on 381 retain some connection that was lost during the SW restructuring. I thought having 379 do the same on select trips for 87th to somewhat retain that service would suffice (these people would be going somewhere that 379 goes to anyway technically). As for 111th the 348 extension isn't confusing.... Just an extension to Morraine Valley which retains the service and in a way adds more connections for someone that would have had to transfer at Blue Island. At first I wanted to just leave the 111th portion as a new route between Morraine and the Shopping center 385 ends at but that was a short route and figured why not possibly provide a new connection? The overall goal is to take resources out of 385 which is literally connecting to everything that 379, 381, 383 and 384 connect to in an indirect way and put them into those routes that are running directly to those places. 

[Sam92]

On 11/15/2025 at 10:02 AM, renardo870 said:

With the 385 routing, I wonder how many riders go to Midway/Orange Line from 87th or 111th or even Alsip when you can ride 383, 384 and 386 to Midway and the 382 should be restored and a new Roberts Road route to the Orange. But I kinda like the idea of 87 and 112 being extended and the 53A could go to Rivercrest Mall.

Definitely extend 54 and/or restore X54 to Jefferson Park. I would also like to see if that North Shore plan will be revived.

With 307/318 going to convert to Pulse routes in the future, the 90 should extend to Forest Park Blue Line Terminal. 

155 to Cumberland could work.

With 352 running Pulse like service between 95th and 127th 24/7, maybe CTA can restore the local 108 24/7.

What's the demand like on Roberts (and 87th for that matter)? That's a small stretch. I get your trying to retain service but since 385 was untouched compared to others in the area is the demand worth it? 

[Busjack]

3 hours ago, Sam92 said:

What's the demand like on Roberts (and 87th for that matter)? That's a small stretch. I get your trying to retain service but since 385 was untouched compared to others in the area is the demand worth it? 

I said I liked @renardo870'as an idea; I didn't say it would necessarily work. Just like I thought 155 would be a possibility west of Kedzie once impediments to city-suburban service were removed.

However, it appears that you are just deflecting from the main issue, which is that 385 is structurally weak. There's a pretty strong N-S grid among 383, 384, and 386, but 385 providing a semblance of an E-W grid violates plannong principles. Extending some 87 and 112 trips might remedy that.

[Busjack]

4 hours ago, Sam92 said:

The only reason one of us from out south would go from say 89th and Cottage to anywhere pass Cicero would be either Morraine Valley, Chicago Ridge or Bidgeview Courthouse...

Again, you are assuming that the only reasonn for a bus route on a grid is to ride the full distance. Very few routes currently run on that assumption. For instance @andrethebusman99 once said there were 3 loads on 47; nobody was going from Ed Burke's neighbors arehood to Bronzeville. The only generator of lakefront to Cicero Ave. through ridership is Midway, but a lot of 55 and 63 buses turn short of there.

The real issues are what service there should be on 87th  and 111th west of Cicero pr Pulaski, and, secondarily whether there is demand to cross that border. Maybe only On Demand is justified, but I doubt that anyone takes the 1 hour 40 minute trip from Crestwood to Midway (per the schedule), since you posit that as the criterion.

[Sam92]

2 hours ago, Busjack said:

 

There's a pretty strong N-S grid among 383, 384, and 386, but 385 providing a semblance of an E-W grid violates plannong principles. Extending some 87 and 112 trips might remedy that.

The real issues are what service there should be on 87th  and 111th west of Cicero pr Pulaski, and, secondarily whether there is demand to cross that border. Maybe only On Demand is justified, but I doubt that anyone takes the 1 hour 40 minute trip from Crestwood to Midway (per the schedule), since you posit that as the criterion.

 

6 hours ago, Sam92 said:

I think we have different approaches to the same goal. Here's what me you and @renardo870agree on. Someone on say the 111th portion would be better off taking 383, 384, 53a or 379 to get to the Orange Line vs going west, north then east on 385. 

So.... Going by these two posts we clearly agree that there's no reason for 385 to exist in its current form with so many of its generators covered by a straighter grid. The only difference is our choices to cover 87th and 111th, 

 

On 11/14/2025 at 1:51 PM, Busjack said:

 

• 385: Someone once asked why not extend 87, and I said that infringed Pace territory. Now tat there is supposed to be unified planning, I don't see what a route like 385, which snakes around to avoid the city limits, accomplishes, and 87 and 112 could be extended.
•  

Any other ideas?

Only reason we really ride past Western on 87th is to get to the blood bank on Kedzie or to get to that shopping center on Cicero, as you can tell by the short turn we're barely doing that often. So on that basis an extension of 87 to cover 87th wouldn't work because if we're barely going to Cicero then there's most certainly not enough of us going west of there. So it would be better to replace that section of 385 with 384 to maintain service on 87th since it runs a similar schedule and also goes to Midway although west of Ridgeland would take a bit but again 379 and 381 go to Morraine and Midway (379) at better frequencies. 

 

2 hours ago, Busjack said:

I said I liked @renardo870'as an idea; I didn't say it would necessarily work. Just like I thought 155 would be a possibility west of Kedzie once impediments to city-suburban service were removed.

However, it appears that you are just deflecting from the main issue, which is that 385 is structurally weak. 

I wasn't deflecting, I asked about the demand because my proposal to kill 385 and reroute 384 meant that Ridgeland to Roberts would be without service, I wondered would my suggestion to divert select 379 trips via 87th to cover that section remedy the removal of 385 from that stretch. 

 

2 hours ago, Busjack said:

Again, you are assuming that the only reasonn for a bus route on a grid is to ride the full distance. Very few routes currently run on that assumption. For instance @andrethebusman99 once said there were 3 loads on 47; nobody was going from Ed Burke's neighbors arehood to Bronzeville. The only generator of lakefront to Cicero Ave. through ridership is Midway, but a lot of 55 and 63 buses turn short of there.

We know a local line isn't just for riding end to end. But here's the thing: The reason most of the east-west streets out south terminate at Western or Kedzie is because once you get so far west, it's easier to just go to the Orange line than ride east to the Red. On the flip side of that coin, yes you have people getting off at intermediate stops but Midway (55/63), Daley/Ford City (67/79), along with the destinations I mentioned along 381 are the majority most of us travel that far west and stay on the bus pass that point.