Route 1 Indiana/Hyde Park - Is it time to change the name?

[geneking7320]

Please forgive me if someone asked this question previously.

Since CTA's route 1 has been cut back to Hyde Park and Drexel blvds maybe they should change the name to "Indiana".

Gene

[Busjack]

I had previously said it should become 38 Indiana, except that 38 has now been taken.

[geneking7320]

I had previously said it should become 38 Indiana, except that 38 has now been taken.  

Thanks for the reply. This prompts a question:

Does anyone have an idea what CTA's route naming standards are?

[if such standards do exist.]

[Busjack]

Does anyone have an idea what CTA's route naming standards are?

[if such standards do exist.]

I have no answer, but also throw another question regarding numbering standards (i.e. why did 6 or 201 stay for essentially different routes, but 202 and 203 were killed, or why there are 14 and 15, instead of 14 and X14). Audit or performance reporting purposes, or just to be arbitrary?

[geneking7320]

Very good question indeed. To tie this together many years ago there was a CTA garage at 52nd St and Cottage Grove [likely owned by the old Chicago Motor Coach company]. I believe CMC formerly operated the Drexel/Hyde Park, Hyde Park and Jeffery routes. I think CMC's Jeffery route number was "4" and was changed to "5" when CTA purchased(?) CMC. Over the years CTA has gone from not showing a route number on express buses [ie, Jeffery/Express WACKER-MICHIGAN]

to assigning a route number to the express version of a route [ie, 6 Jeffery Express]. I think what they are currently doing is reassigning route numbers when they think the former combinations have disappeared from rider conciousness.

Kevin: feel free to clean up the history mentioned here.

Gene King

[trainman8119]

A theory (based on my memory):

In the old days, there were no route numbers associated with the express routes. For example you had Archer and Archer Express (both under route 62), Addison and Addison Limited (152) Milwaukee and Milwaukee Limited (56), and I am sure a few more. They were all considered the same route, just reduced the number of stops these buses would make. Regular routes would have black and white sineage, Express routes would have a red box in the route number area and limiteds would have a green sign in the route number area.

From what I remember, with the opening of the Dan Ryan (in 1969) and the Kennedy extensions (in 1970) the limiteds went by the wayside and the express routes became their own routes. It was about that same time that many routes were renumbered to give them their own identity. For example, South Damen went from 50A to 48, Wentworth went from 22A to 24, Vinncennes-111th went from 111A to 112. There was no rhyme or reason to the changes, since for example, South Cicero was still 54B, North Milwaukee 56A, North Central 85A and so on. I do remember that some of the changes, as in 22A becoming 24 was to distinguish Wentworth from Clark. History may show that it was about that time that the express routes got numbers, like 99 Stevenson Express, 40 O'Hare Express, 147 Outer Drive Express and so on.

The current system of adding an N to the owl buses (which really makes no sense at all) and the X to the "local" express routes seems to get away from what was being done during that time, which was suppose to reduce confusion at the bus stop and distinguish routes when buses come along.

The bottom line is that there seems to be no real guideline to how these routes are numbered or named...for every route that sets a pattern, there are 2 that go off of it.

[Busjack]

Most of the renumberings mentioned happened in 1975, when CTA went from the all caps to Helvetica signs. I have side roll sign of 1974 vintage, which still has 50A S. Damen on it. The main effect of the Dan Ryan rapid transit opening in 1969 is that the Garfield (6 and 6X) and Vincennes (111AX) downtown runs ended.

A few other observations:

• Gene King's memory of Jeffery agrees with mine. #4 was before my time, but obviously needed to change because of a conflict with 4 Cottage Grove. There used to be a 5 Jeffery that ran basically via the current 15 route to Drexel, and then via Drexel, 43rd, and Indiana/Michigan to Wacker/State. At least the Hyde Park and north part was canceled as part of the 1973 cutbacks.
  
• Some of the route names were simplified in 1975 when put on the headsign. For instance 155 Devon-Sheridan became 155 Devon (see busdrawings.com for the 1974 version). However, that happened earlier on some routes. My 1974 sign has "55 GARFIELD" instead of GARFIELD-55, which was the name on the bus stop signs; however, the "55"s were eventually taped over. Maybe they thought Devon-Sheridan was necessary to distinguish it from the then Devon-Cicero bus.
  
• Although before 1974, most of the side signs did not have route numbers, but just said "COTTAGE GR," for instance, there was an occasional "5A JEFFERY EXPRESS" red side sign. Conversely, as noted, the headsigns for express and limited routes did not have route numbers on a consistent basis until 1975 (a few 1974 signs had them). The route descriptions on the back of the map treated the express routes as an indented paragraph under the main one, with no separate number.
  
• The 1975 signs also resulted in officially changing 149 from Michigan-State-Wacker to Stateliner, and 157 Ohio-Union Station to 157 Streeterville. Of course, as the discussion about busdrawings.com indicated, there was a "149 Stateliner 35 cents" roof sign on the 1972 buses. The long name for both of those routes meant that the destination was scrunched to the right.
  

While all of this has been an interesting history lesson, we really haven't found out if there are current standards. For instance, the new Lincoln-Sedgwick could have just been named Lincoln, but you might have had activists blowing smoke that the Sedgwick route was eliminated.

[Danielsmusic]

I don't really think the route name "Indiana" would work because the bus only runs on Indiana northbound. Southbound buses don't run on Indiana. When Indiana was two-way, the 38 "Indiana" made sense, but today I don't think that name works.

I do agree that the "Hyde Park" part of the name really needs to be taken out.

Question: The 2 Hyde Park Express doesn't run on Hyde Park southbound in the morning and northbound in the evening. Does "Hyde Park" refer to Hyde Park the street, or Hyde Park the neighborhood?

[jajuan]

I don't really think the route name "Indiana" would work because the bus only runs on Indiana northbound. Southbound buses don't run on Indiana. When Indiana was two-way, the 38 "Indiana" made sense, but today I don't think that name works.

I do agree that the "Hyde Park" part of the name really needs to be taken out.

Question: The 2 Hyde Park Express doesn't run on Hyde Park southbound in the morning and northbound in the evening. Does "Hyde Park" refer to Hyde Park the street, or Hyde Park the neighborhood?

Yes I agree that the Hyde Park portion of the route name needs to be dropped from the #1. As for the 2 I'd guess that Hyde Park refers to Hyde Park the neighborhood rather than the street name. Maybe that's why CTA continues to use 1 Indiana/Hyde Park even though that route has only been going to 51st/Hyde Park and Drexel for the past few years. But it really wouldn't fit with the Indiana portion of the name referring to Indiana Avenue would it?

[Buslover88]

Maybe the route needs to be #1 Michigan-Indiana.

[BUSANGEL#1]

Originally there was a special numerical order of different routes. However Cta now numbers routes based on their past orgin. Visit bus and rail fan's website for the original plans on route numbers and how they have changed. Its quite interesting! Also CTA now names routes based on streets and neighborhoods such as #111 Pullman/111th/115th, #100 Jeffrey Manor Express, #157 Streeterville, #129 West loop/South Loop, #132 Goose Island Express, and others.

[jajuan]

So 1 Indiana/Hyde Park would still fit under this basis of naming. Indiana referring to the street and Hyde Park referring to the neighborhood.

[geneking7320]

So 1 Indiana/Hyde Park would still fit under this basis of naming. Indiana referring to the street and Hyde Park referring to the neighborhood.

Some of you might not remember the previous route 38 Indiana which operated northbound on Indiana from 63rd St to either Wabash and Wacker or Union Station. The route operated southbound via Michigan and to my knowledge riders weren't confused by the name. I questioned the Hyde Park in the current name because the route barely touches Hyde Park Blvd and the community of Hyde Park [by terminating at Drexel Square].

Gene King

[jajuan]

Some of you might not remember the previous route 38 Indiana which operated northbound on Indiana from 63rd St to either Wabash and Wacker or Union Station. The route operated southbound via Michigan and to my knowledge riders weren't confused by the name. I questioned the Hyde Park in the current name because the route barely touches Hyde Park Blvd and the community of Hyde Park [by terminating at Drexel Square].

Gene King

My only memory of the 38 Indiana is seeing it on an old route map as a kid in the early eighties in its one way loop configuration before being eliminated.

[Busjack]

1. The 38 Indiana bus was always named that. The streetcar was two ways on Indiana (because Michigan was a boulevard), but as long as I remember (and that goes back to the late 60s in Chicago), Michigan and Indiana were one ways and the 38 bus went in the direction of traffic. I agreed earlier that the current name is an anachronism, in that it was based on combining 1 Drexel Hyde Park with 38 Indiana, but any part of the route descended from the 1 Drexel Hyde Park bus was discontinued long ago.

2. The 2 Hyde Park Express is based on the street--not the neighborhood. Until the South Lake Shore restructuring, it ended at Drexel Square--i.e. Hyde Park and Drexel. Before 1973, there was also a 2 Hyde Park local from NW Station. I don't know how it got to Drexel Square, but from there it went via East Hyde Park and South Hyde Park Blvd. to Museum Drive-57th. The current bus was then the 2A.

There are now plenty of other anachronisms resulting from the restructurings, such as the 135 Wilson Michigan rush hour bus that ends at Lake Shore-Grace, about a mile south of ever reaching Wilson. It also had a number of renumberings, as the original Wilson Michigan was 153.

Streeterville is the only bus that was renamed from an obscure street to a neighborhood (it was originally 157 Ohio-Union Station). Other ones that now could be said to be named after neighborhoods are Jackson Park, Skokie, Jeffery Manor, Pullman, and Water Tower, and of more recent vintage the U of C, routes, Goose Island, and Evanston Circulator. One could make an argument about South Shore, except those buses are on South Shore Drive at some point (and they are predominantly Commercial Ave. buses in South Chicago). But that leaves you all but about maybe 15 of 144 routes named after streets.

[Danielsmusic]

The 2 Hyde Park Express is based on the street--not the neighborhood. Until the South Lake Shore restructuring, it ended at Drexel Square--i.e. Hyde Park and Drexel. Before 1973, there was also a 2 Hyde Park local from NW Station. I don't know how it got to Drexel Square, but from there it went via East Hyde Park and South Hyde Park Blvd. to Museum Drive-57th. The current bus was then the 2A.

Yeah, I remember the 2 used to go to Hyde Park and Drexel.

There are now plenty of other anachronisms resulting from the restructurings, such as the 135 Wilson Michigan rush hour bus that ends at Lake Shore-Grace, about a mile south of ever reaching Wilson. It also had a number of renumberings, as the original Wilson Michigan was 153.

A few things are incorrect:

1. The 135 is the Clarendon/LaSalle Express, not the Wilson/Michigan.

2. The bus you're referring to, the 145, only ends at Grace for about 4 hours out of the day. The rest of the time, it goes down the Inner Drive to Irving Park, Irving Park to Clarendon, Clarendon to Wilson, Wilson to Damen, Damen to Ravenwood, and Ravenswood back to Wilson.

3. The 145 is not a rush hour bus.

4. The original Wilson/Michigan was the 153. However, the 145 is not a direct descendant of the 153. The 153 ended up mainly being the 151 and the 156.

Other ones that now could be said to be named after neighborhoods are Jackson Park, Skokie, Jeffery Manor, Pullman, and Water Tower

Actually, Water Tower is not a neighborhood. It is called the "Water Tower Express" because it goes to Water Tower, which is a building and and a shopping mall. If it was named after a neighborhood, the name would have something to do with North Michigan, Magnificent Mile, or West Streeterville.

[jajuan]

2 Hyde Park Express may have originally named after the street Hyde Park boulevard, but in its current configuration of operating in a loop on its southern end through the Hyde Park neighborhood, it can be thought of as being named for the neighborhood. That wouldn't make it much of an anachronism as the other examples that you gave. And yes the 135 route is the 135 Clarendon/LaSalle Express so there isn't an anachronism there since it does not operate on Wilson as you were referring to.

[Busjack]

I'll acknowledge that I meant 145, not 135. Another brain cramp. I was referring to the rush hour version.

[trainman8119]

The original Wilson/Michigan was the 153. However, the 145 is not a direct descendant of the 153. The 153 ended up mainly being the 151 and the 156.

Actually the 145 is more of indirect descendant of the 153. There was a gap where there was nothing in place. 151 is pretty much the same route it was back in the day. The difference is that then it went down Cannon Drive, while the 153 and 156 used Stockton. Then, 153 was Wilson-Michigan and 156 Wilson-LaSalle, and both went to Wilson-Ravenswood. In one of the service cuts, 153 went RIP and 156 was shortened to Belmont and became simply La Salle. 151 was then routed via Stockton to handle some of the load. Later on, the 145 and 146 were created, using the Outer Drive, and 151 continued to handle the load through Lincoln Park with the 156.

[Busjack]

There was also a time (at least around 1976) when there were both express and locals on 145 and 146. I would contend that the 145 local is a descendant of 153.

Also, before the Helvetica signs appeared in 1975, the Wilson Michigan Express didn't have a number on the signs, and the maps listed it as a 153X; it became the 145 Express. There was also a Wilson-Michigan Outer Drive Express at the time, which in 1975 became 148. One could argue whether it is related to the current 148, but I would contend not.

[Busjack]

2 Hyde Park Express may have originally named after the street Hyde Park boulevard, but in its current configuration of operating in a loop on its southern end through the Hyde Park neighborhood, it can be thought of as being named for the neighborhood. That wouldn't make it much of an anachronism as the other examples that you gave.

I didn't say it was an anachronism; I just said it was named after the street. Essentially no different than the N. Milwaukee bus also going on Devon.

BTW, in 1975 CTA cut down many compound street route designations, such as 155 Devon Sheridan (became Devon), 55 Garfield-55th (became Garfield), etc.

[jajuan]

I didn't say it was an anachronism; I just said it was named after the street. Essentially no different than the N. Milwaukee bus also going on Devon.

BTW, in 1975 CTA cut down many compound street route designations, such as 155 Devon Sheridan (became Devon), 55 Garfield-55th (became Garfield), etc.

Sorry about the misread there. I rechecked and see you were referring to something else.