NABI Ceases CompoBus Production

[Kevin]

According to NABI's Q1 report, production of the CompoBus is ceasing this month when current orders are complete.

As part of the restructuring of the Group, production of the CompoBus vehicle in Kaposvar, Hungary will cease in May when the current orders are completed. This action follows the decision of the U.S. Federal Transportation Administration to decline NABI’s request to renew the Buy America waiver first granted in 2002, the expected continuation of operating losses and the lack of new orders for the product. The cessation of CompoBus production and closure of the Kaposvar facility will improve the Group’s financial performance and cash flow later in 2005.

[Busjack]

The ambiguity here is the status of the CTA order; we really don't know if it is an existing order being completed, or (as we assume) CTA isn't exercising its option.

More ominous is the statement in a press release on the NABI Hungarian site that the creditors now have 90% of the U.S. subsidiary and 33% of the Hungarian parent, and

Given the separation in the majority ownership of NABI Rt. and NABI Inc., the companies will enter into an arm's length supply agreement to ensure the continued supply of steel shells, chassis, parts and service from Hungary to the US business.  

...

NABI Rt. announces that it has entered into negotiations that may or may not lead to an offer or offers being made for certain or substantially all of NABI Rt.'s and NABI Inc.'s assets and businesses in Hungary, US and/or UK. NABI Rt. will make further announcements on these efforts in due course.

Does not sound like a healthy company. And it does not sound like the 1 year delay and defects with the 60LFWs helped any.

[sw4400]

That's a shame. I never ridden these buses and if they ever made it to the X49 Route, I might've had a chance. Is the CTA going to bring back the 7800 proto-type and maybe order the other 24 buses?

[geneking7320]

Hi All;

Part 2 of the Metro magazine article about Compobus is now online:

http://www.metro-magazine.com/t_featpick.c...cfm?id=90508684

[Busjack]

What surprised me from the article cited in the preceding message is that they were doing assembly in Hungary, instead of just shipping the shells. Since the report mentioned in Zolk's message says that production at the Hungarian plant has ceased, that means that CTA isn't getting any more.

The article also raises the question whether U.S. government research in this area is of any value (this got a little further than Transbus, but not much), especially since all the companies (except Gillig) are foreign.

Being in favor of U.S. workers, I think that the economics behind the dollar devaluation are actually working, as indicated by the European exporters' problems.

Still no one knows what happened to 7800?

[Busjack]

Wikipedia says at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_America..._Bus_Industries:

The last 45C-LFW was manufactured for Chicago and painted in a red, white and blue motif. The Chicago contract for 25 buses was cancelled when the company realized they were losing big bucks (rumored to be $50,000 each) on each CompoBus. The Compo plant in Kaposvar, Hungary was closed in early 2005.

Of course, it doesn't say who the source for this is (only gives an IP number).

Looking through NABI reports and Andre's IKARUS page, it looks as though there were orders for 190 Compobuses, not counting Chicago's order, and 190 were delivered as of 3rd Quarter 2005, when the Hungarian production ended.

[Busjack]

More ominous is the statement in a press release on the NABI Hungarian site that the creditors now have 90% of the U.S. subsidiary and 33% of the Hungarian parent, and  

Does not sound like a healthy company.

NABI had a more recent announcement of financiers buying up their debt and then the stock of the Hungarian holding company, NABI RT. While it is clear that the corporate entity NABI RT is being liquidated, and the purchasers intend to honor existing contracts and warranties, an article in a Hungarian financial journal doesn't really make clear if the purchasers intend to run it as a going concern, or if this is a wind-up, such as Amerail with regard to the 7400 and 8400 Metra cars (a company organized by the creditors simply for the purpose of fulfilling existing contracts).

Yesterday NeoplanUS, today NABI...

[Busjack]

The NABI USA site has a press release, which clarifies that the apparently unknown buyers are affiliates of Cerberus Capital Management, which, coincidentally, is also the lead firm in the buyout of Cub Foods Chicago area stores and the Albertsons stores that SuperValu does not want.

A Birmingham, Alabama paper has a story with more background information.

[TempeAZbusman]

You should be thankful to the CTA for not burdening your system with these units. Tempe, AZ purchased 8 units, tagging on to a City of Phoenix bid for 56 units. We currently struggle to keep them on our Express routes. There are many problems with parts falling off, bad grounds on the electrical system and a vibration at highway speed that is just awlful.

It's a shame, because the concept was good.

[Busjack]

I came across an announcement that NABI has developed a stylized 42 BRT bus, based on the design of the 60BRT. This might capture some of the market intended for the Compobus, but since CTA has soured on NABI (and apparently isn't willing to pay for New Flyer's restyled buses) I doubt we will be seing any here.

[geneking7320]

Please pardon the following mini-rant...

While I fully support the spirit of ADA regulations so that disabled people can ride mainline transit buses I think it sucks that the number of seats on a standard sized bus has been reduced to 37 in some cases. [rant over]

That said... maybe CTA could talk New Flyer into extending its restyled bus to 42.5 feet and purchase some longer New Flyers with options available under the present contract. I suggested this because I also like the New Flyer bus shown in post #10. I additionally prefer that look to the pseudo-railcar BRT look.

Gene

[Busjack]

While I fully support the spirit of ADA regulations so that disabled people can ride mainline transit buses I think it sucks that the number of seats on a standard sized bus has been reduced to 37 in some cases.

While driven by the ADA, the real problem is that most transit authorities prefer the low floor, and most manufacturers haven't figured out a way to put seats over the front wheel well. Some transit authorities still, while staying compliant with the ADA, use lifts. ElDorado is apparently put seats over the wheel well, but maybe that's because the tires on a little bus are smaller.

As indicated by the plans for the 5000 series L cars, seating isn't a priority for the CTA; cramming in standees is.

That said, I suppose New Flyer could develop a 42 foot bus if the frame is modular and if CTA were willing to pay for it. There is also the RTS Extreme, which, however, appears to have fallen out of sight.

[The Don of All Buses]

that's sad, I'd love to have some Compo Buses in my fleet when I start my bus system as well as the RTS Extreme.

[Busjack]

that's sad, I'd love to have some Compo Buses in my fleet when I start my bus system as well as the RTS Extreme.

What bus system are you starting? Especially if you are only 20? And as Carole Brown would ask, where are you getting your funding? What taxes are you imposing? And how would you put RTS Extremes and Compobuses in your fleet, if they aren't being manufactured?

When you wish upon a star....

[geneking7320]

I have a few follow-up Compobus questions.

1. Does the Hungarian parent of NABI manufacture the Compobus for the European market?

2. How are the Compobuses sold to American operators performing?

Gene King

[Busjack]

I have a few follow-up Compobus questions.

1. Does the Hungarian parent of NABI manufacture the Compobus for the European market?

Gene King

There is no longer a Hungarian parent of NABI. The Hungarian company sold what little was left to Cerebrus a couple of years ago, and became a corporate shell (see Press Release and this corporate description, as well as post 1414).

And, in case you may be confusing NABI with Ikarus, the Compobus was based on American technology, and folded when the U.S. Government didn't extend the Buy America waivers. If NABI was going to continue it, it would have had to move the body shell production to the U.S. Of course, NABI (the Hungarian parent) didn't have the money to do that, or even to stay in business as a bus manufacturer.

[The Don of All Buses]

I'm going to go to school first, then when I graduate, I'll figure out how I'm going to start it up. As for the CompoBus and the RTS Extreme, what I meant to say was IF they still existed I'd buy some.

[Busjack]

Someone put an unsourced report at Wikipedia that the Compobus was back. While, in that form, the post violated Wikipedia policies, it did prompt me to look at the LA Metro site, where there is an advertisement for 260 composite buses, with options for up to 740 additional vehicles, with a due date of 1/4/08. This is supposed to be a competitive bidding process, but it is not clear whether LA has a deal to bring the Compobus back, is bidding on something that doesn't exist in the market anymore, or is counting on NABI either moving production or getting Buy America waivers. Inquiring minds want to know, but apparently the compobus idea is not yet fully dead (and a 1000 bus order certainly could result in rethinking the business case). Maybe someone else is bidding on a composite bus.

[The Don of All Buses]

Someone put an unsourced report at Wikipedia that the Compobus was back. While, in that form, the post violated Wikipedia policies, it did prompt me to look at the LA Metro site, where there is an advertisement for 260 composite buses, with options for up to 740 additional vehicles, with a due date of 1/4/08. This is supposed to be a competitive bidding process, but it is not clear whether LA has a deal to bring the Compobus back, is bidding on something that doesn't exist in the market anymore, or is counting on NABI either moving production or getting Buy America waivers. Inquiring minds want to know, but apparently the compobus idea is not yet fully dead (and a 1000 bus order certainly could result in rethinking the business case). Maybe someone else is bidding on a composite bus.

i hope they stay around for a while... hay Busjack, how did you kno how old i am?

[nextstopchicago]

i hope they stay around for a while... hay Busjack, how did you kno how old i am?

Click on your user name or your icon and you'll see that you entered it in your profile, or maybe you entered your birthdate, and they calculate it for your profile.

[Busjack]

Thinking that it was time to follow up on this, it appears that LA is about ready to offer a contract to NABI for 260 Compobuses, at least if this Committee Report and solicitation for inspection services in Hungary mean anything.

[Busjack]

Well, it's back. LA County Metro Press Release.

[geneking7320]

Well, it's back. LA County Metro Press Release.

I took a look at the press release and had a quick look at NABI's website (which needs updating) but I could not tell that the 45foot LA Metro buses would be Compobuses. They might possibly be standard construction. Recall that United Airlines has a 45ft Neoplan around here somewhere...

[Busjack]

I took a look at the press release and had a quick look at NABI's website (which needs updating) but I could not tell that the 45foot LA Metro buses would be Compobuses. They might possibly be standard construction. Recall that United Airlines has a 45ft Neoplan around here somewhere...

That, per se, doesn't, but the link in my prior post about the committee report does ("SUBJECT: FORTY-FIVE FOOT COMPOSITE BUSES"). Also, the original request for proposals was for composite buses.

[geneking7320]

That, per se, doesn't, but the link in my prior post about the committee report does ("SUBJECT: FORTY-FIVE FOOT COMPOSITE BUSES"). Also, the original request for proposals was for composite buses.

OK. I am curious - I thought one factor in ceasing of Compobus production was the Buy America requirement. Will LA Metro [or NABI] seek a waiver?