Minneapolis "t" Buses....

[MVTArider]

The plan is to have the bus loop on Nicols Road, and build a median bus stop on Cedar with a walkbridge from the freeway station to the bus loop in the future. I thought that they might be expediting the freeway station, but I guess not.

Good, I wasn't just imagining I once saw a plan for a ped. bridge at Cedar Grove. I guess they are going to wait and just have the station constructed for 2009 so they get reimbursed.

I'm not super impressed with the Van Hools, one has a completely non-functioning front display, another has a SUPER dim front display, and all of the 330's make strange noises. Also, I was getting off one of the Van Hool artics, and only half of the door opened. One panel opened and the other didn't. All 3 other doors opened fully. It was strange.

That reminds me of something, I noticed on the rear doors there is a track in the floor to guide the door with, I was thinking, how long until those fill with sand and crud and the doors start having problems? Thats nice there are still D60LFs going around, I should try to take a ride video this week while I still can :unsure:

[Guest]

Is there anyone on this blog from Minneapolis, who is employed or close to Metro Transit that can display a Metro bus operators running time schedule? Im curious to see how it looks. I can display a CTA or Pace running time sheet if anyone is interested.

[exitzero]

I'm not super impressed with the Van Hools, one has a completely non-functioning front display, another has a SUPER dim front display, and all of the 330's make strange noises. Also, I was getting off one of the Van Hool artics, and only half of the door opened. One panel opened and the other didn't. All 3 other doors opened fully. It was strange.

Just wait'll those Van Stools get a Minnesota winter under their belt. They'll be rattling and creaking like nobody's business by the end of the school year.

I understand the reasoning behind people wanting to buy these monstrosities, but the fact is, they just don't do well outside of Belgium. I rode a 2007 A300K this evening (AC Transit) and the thing was already creaking and rattling over every bump in the road.

I'm surprised they didn't just go with New Flyers.

BTW Minneapolis peeps - I'll be in town this weekend if anyone wants to go fanning (though I suppose that won't happen with it being so cold!) PM me if you're interested...

[Coastercameron]

I rode on the bus with the broken door again today. It is one of the new Artics (3824). Not only has the door problem still not been fixed on this bus, but as an added bonus both the front and side destination signs were completely out. They had paper numbers in the windows.

I'm really not sure if they plan on keeping some of the D60LFs, as they still rely on them heavily. Again I'm not sure if the whole order of Van Hools has been recieved, but there are only 2 of the new artics that have been out (3823, and 3824) and yesterday I saw 3 of the 4 D60LFs they own in service simultaneously.

Thier operation seems to require a lot more busses than are actually in service at any given time. At times you will see virtually no busses in use except for the Van Hools, but at other times later on the same day I have seen as many as 3-4 of the advantages, 3 of the new flyers, and 1 or 2 of the OLD phantoms being used all at once. I guess we will see how things pan out at the start of next semester when they say the change will be complete.

I am afraid they won't have enough busses to maintain the current level of service, and I will have to wait out in the cold longer!

[Tcmetro]

The Gillig BRT Hybrid at the U is #3825. It has wide back doors like MT #7105-7109.

[Tcmetro]

Hybrid #7166 was on the 16 earlier. I also wonder what garage has the D60LF's now. I saw 2 of them, 1 on the 113, and 1 on the 114. They were last seen at South Garage when they were on the 54. Nicollet doesn't have artics so maybe they are still at South.

[MVTArider]

Thier operation seems to require a lot more busses than are actually in service at any given time....

I've noticed that too the few times i've ridden, there will be one or two buses around W.A.B. then you get on the busway and these groups start going by, like two or three Phantoms, then a NF, then like 4 SWMT buses (for variety I guess) then a couple more.

Maybe its a good thing Van Hool isn't buy America compliant

The Gillig BRT Hybrid at the U is #3825. It has wide back doors like MT #7105-7109.

Cool, I'm surprised they have it already though since it seems like they just got the agreement to buy it a couple months ago.

[Tcmetro]

I wonder if there are any 300's or 2300's left. I haven't seen them recently. I also wonder if we will get a lot of buses next year, but there isn't much to replace until 2010.

[MVTArider]

The only 300's2300's i've seen are parked and looking like they are ready to be retired. I'll let you know if I see any in service though. Actually I should try to get a ride video of one come to think of it. Once i'm done with finals i'm going to have to get busy :lol:

[mplsguy08]

I havent seen any of the 2300's or 300's , so I think they retired them but I dont know where they are parked at? Also I havent seen buses 400, 401, 404 that run out of the east metro garage for a while , i wonder what happened to them. Ive seen some 400 buses out of the south garage but I havent seen 422 in a while either...

[exitzero]

I only managed to see Phantoms numbered in the 600s and above as well as some 1100s and 7100s. The following is one of the better shots I snagged last night:

I have to admit, even as much as I like Gilligs, it's a bit boring when there's only one or two fleet types.

MVTARider: Got your PM - just a little late Today was obviously not a good day for fanning and I leave tomorrow afternoon, so maybe next time?

[MVTArider]

I have to admit, even as much as I like Gilligs, it's a bit boring when there's only one or two fleet types.

MVTARider: Got your PM - just a little late Today was obviously not a good day for fanning and I leave tomorrow afternoon, so maybe next time?

Thats alright, there was some stuff that came up actually so it probably wouldn't have worked out this time anyways, hopefully better luck next time. Hope you had a good time though So were you able to ride an 1100/7100?

[MVTArider]

Well I had to drop of my car for some maintenance so I rode 726 and 606 on 68 today, really good drivers too. The one guy pulled right onto the sidewalk at a few stops so the passengers didn't have to go through the snowbanks the plows left this morning. Its amazing how well the Phantoms seem to handle snow Anyways here's a few pics:

[Tcmetro]

Here is a thread about a U of M Van Hool artic in NY and NJ to show off, from subchat (note: I am not "Terrapin Station") : http://www.subchat.com/buschat/readflat.asp?Id=128744

I also saw a new MVTA Glaval, #4826 today. It is a GMC C5500 Duramax.

[MVTArider]

I wonder if MVTA is replacing the 2002 cutaways now? Thats interesting that a Van Hool is visiting NY/NJ too. Now if we could just get a visit from the Nova LFX I rode on cutaway 4724 on 446 yesterday, I must admit those have a pretty nice ride. Also went to the U to try riding non Van Hool buses one last time before break service starts. There were no NF's but I had pretty good rides on two Advantages surprisingly. Also I saw the new hybrid, it looks nice. To add an angle to the U bus situation one of the campus circulator cutaways is now in service at Thomson Reuters on their parking lot shuttle. I saw it yesterday and today while waiting for 445. I suppose an Advantage could show up there sometime in the future as a freak substitute but I highly doubt that. Also the Cedar Grove station was covered at the last Cedar Ave. meeting, it will have interim local circulator service (either a new route or the 445) and will be linked via. skyway to center running BRT in the future. I hope they get the presentation up online soon since they covered their trip to Kansas City and there were some cool pictures. It was also reported MVTA ridership is up again this year and is beating last year's numbers.

[Tcmetro]

They still haven't added the presentations on the Cedar Ave website

What is the function of this circulator, where will it go?

[exitzero]

So at some point MT were going to try and get rid of confusing branch letters on all their routes. They got a good start, but...sorta stopped.

Well, in an ideal world, they would have finished what they started. Since this isn't an ideal world, I'll go ahead and foist my opinion about it here.

One thing you'll realize after reading this is that you can't get rid of all of the branch letters, but you can at least use letters better. And, there are a lot fewer branch letters in my route listing than there currently are now.

An aside: I love how MT still acts like they only have 15 characters to work with. I mean, come on, "11A 4 AVE SO / 11A 46ST 4AVE" on a Twin Vision? Really now.

Lest anyone get into a kerfluffle, this is only my opinion of an ideal MT routing setup.

I already did Sector 4 routes (mostly MVTA) earlier in this thread. But I'll start with the 2-94 routes in this post:

New 1. What the southern half of existing Route 25 is now known as. 1A short-turn is located current 25S terminus, and the existing 25L terminus becomes the 1B. The line is then extended via the current 17F branch to 36th and Wooddale becomes full Route 1.

2. Obviously it's a little hard to excise branch letters on some routes, so in some cases, there will be one or two, and that's okay. Route 2 is an example - it makes sense to call the short turn around the U of M the 2A, but the 2C should drop the C as it's the entire route. The 2E - what. Just call them 2s that end at the U of M.

3. The 3B branch should be dropped and made its own route (the 73 for example, since it's coming out of St Paul.) Short-turn terminus 3C should become short-turn terminus 3A. Terminus 3E should be dropped - let them all short-turn at Cleveland and Como. Route 3U...come on. What's it gonna kill you to let them all go to Minneapolis?

4. North of downtown Mpls. this should become the 34. South of downtown, the 4 numbering is maintained. South first: I'll keep the 4A short turn, but extend it to 50-Bryant. Most of the trips go via Lyndale, so the Penn routing should be hacked and made some sorta crosstown route (which I'll call the 48.) The 4F branch will become unlettered. 4D and 4K will become 48 which will loop on the north end via Penn, 50, Lyndale, 56. See Route 34 for the north side.

5. North of Minneapolis, this becomes the 35. The 5 numbering is retained on the southern half. South first: 5A and 5B short turns at 38th/50th become a single 5A short turn at 46th. We'll keep the 5C short turn at 66th but call it the 5B. The 5E at MOA drops the letter. See Route 35 for the north side.

6. All 6U trips become 36 trips. South of downtown, more trips route via Xerxes, so we can spin off the France branch into something else...lolol maybe the 28? Okay, really...6A and 6X? Come on...why not just run everything going that far to 36th and Hennepin and be done with it? 6B short turn to Southdale would route via Xerxes, not France. 6E would become unlettered 6 and end at Minnesota Dr. as it does now. 6K would be spun off into the 28.

7. North branch of Route 7 would become the 37. South branch would retain the 7 routing. Letters would be dropped, everyone is happy.

9. Okay, this route is just nonsense. What is wrong with splitting things up, people? First off, cut the 9B branch, or call it something else (15). You also have variable message signs, I don't think it's going to kill someone to know whether the bus goes via Penn or Cedar Lake. Snip off the 9H branch as well. Make the 9A short turn at Park Place and Gamble. Extend some trips to Novartis. Make the 9B short turn at Louisiana TC with ALL trips via Cedar Lake (that means hack off the 9D branch). The 9N branch is obviously the full route and loses its letter.

10. 10C becomes 10A, 10H becomes 10B, 10N becomes 10. 10U? Make it a crosstown of some sorts. Hell, slap it on Route 801 if needed.

11. Southern portion becomes Route 41. Northern portion retains 11 routing. 11B short turn becomes 11A. 11C branch becomes 11.

12. 12B = 12A. 12CD = 12B. 12FGHK = 12, even the limited service trips via K-Tel Drive. Simple, yes?

14. Ugh...why? The northern side is just nuts. First off...it becomes one or two routes (44 and 45) and the 14 is retained south of downtown. 14BE become 14A. 14A becomes 14B. 14CF becomes 14.

15. New route to Louisiana Transit Center via old 9B branch.

17. 17W branch north of downtown becomes new Route 47. South of downtown, I'll move the 17A short turn to France and Lake. The 17F branch could probably be incorporated into some crosstown route. 17C becomes 17B and 17D becomes 17.

18. The 18G branch - cut it and make it something else. 18X becomes 18A. 18A becomes 18B. 18C and 18D are retained. Potentially all trips could run to American and become 18C. 18E becomes 18.

19. Way too many branches. 19B is the full route and becomes simply the 19. Branches 19HRSY can basically be joined together to create a crosstown Route 719 with northern end at Robbinsdale TC and southern end at 36th and York.

21. Eastbound, the 21A is the whole route and becomes simply the 21. The 21E becomes the 21A. 21D becomes 21B. 21C is retained.

22. How interesting that they split this up and then rejoined it again. Still makes things confusing. Here's how I'd fix it up: First off, hack the southern end, call it Route 52. The majority of trips follow existing Route 22B, that will become the new Route 22. The 22A branch will split off and become part of the 720 series of routes, as will 22CD.

23. 23B becomes 23A. 23CH are combined into one route called the 23. First the veterans home is served, then the Ford Plant and Highland.

25. Branch south of downtown becomes the 1 again. 25A short turn is good where it is. 25B is dropped. 25D becomes 25B. 25F becomes new Route 125. 25H and N are combined into one route, the 25.

27. 27B branch becomes 27. 27A short turn is good where it is from both directions.

New 28. Yayayayay the 28 is back!! Just like Route 6 except with all trips via France Ave. Wooddale and valley View trips would be broken off and made a new suburban crosstown route (the 528) and extended to 50-France on the northern end, and the entire 6K branch on the southern end. Route 28A would end where the 6A ends. Route 28 would end at Southdale.

32. Route is looped back and extended to Fremont-26 via W Broadway (existing 5FG branch).

New 34. Excised northern branch of Route 4. Existing Route 4B becomes new Route 34A. Existing branch 4G becomes new Route 34.

New 35. Excised northern branch of Route 5. Existing 5M becomes full-length Route 35. Existing 5K becomes new 35A short turn. 5FG branch are excised and tacked on to Route 32 as a stub.

New 36. Existing 6U service.

New 37. Excised northern branch of Route 7. Existing 7C becomes 37, Existing 7B becomes 37A.

New 41. Excised southern branch of Route 11. The entire route is known as Route 41 (existing 11A).

New 44. Excised northern branch of Route 14. The 44 is the branch via Golden Valley Road and Douglas. The existing 14G terminal is moved back to Xerxes and Golden Valley Road and called the 44A. The 44 ends at the Robbinsdale TC and is routed via 36th, Noble, 39th, Regent, 42nd. The 14L branch is eliminated.

New 45. Excised northern branch of Route 14. The 45 is the branch via Broadway and Oakdale. The existing 14N branch is eliminated.

46. Westbound, 46X becomes 46A. 46B is retained. 46C becomes 46.

New 47. What the northern half of existing Route 17 is now known as.

New 48. What the existing route 4CDK branches are now known as. Northern terminus is at Hwy 121 and 58th St. Southern terminus is 82nd St. Station. North end loop is via Penn, 50th, Lyndale (serve terminus), 56th.

50. Renumber this route 116. Make the destination sign actually show the destination, eg "116 LTD STOPS / 116 U OF M/HURON" or "116 LTD STOPS / 116 DWTN ST PAUL". Wow

New 52. What the southern half of Route 22 is now known as. Route 22GH becomes simply Route 22.

53. Hack off the 53A branch, run everything via the 53B branch and call it the 53. What.

61. Combine the 61B and 61C designations into one: the 61A. Eastbound, 61As go as far as Hoover and Winter streets NE. Trips that continue on to St Paul are signed as 61, regardless of whether they take the Hoover/Winter cutoff or not.

62. The 62A short turn is fine as is. But let's call the 62L the 62B and the 62C the 62.

63. The western end keeps the 63 numbering, drops the A and there you go. The eastern end is renumbered the 83.

64. The 64D routing is hacked off and becomes new Route 66. The 64N routing becomes the 64. 64H? 64A.

New 66. What the existing 64D routing is now known as.

67. West of Downtown St. Paul, the 67 retains its numbering. South and east of St. Paul, it is renumbered the 76.

68. North of Downtown St. Paul, the route is now called the 69. South of downtown, all trips will travel via Robert and Marie. The 68A terminal is extended to Oakdale and Marie. The 68B terminus ends where existing 68C and 68D trips end. The 68C terminus is where 68EJ trips now end, and the 68F drops its letter to become simply the 68. The 68CJ routing is excised and placed into a crosstown route (401) that is comprised of it and excised portions of existing Routes 67 (New 76) and 75.

New 69. What the existing 68M routing is now known as.

70. The western half of the route becomes the 79. The eastern half retains the 70 numbering has a short-turn terminus at Sun Ray (70A) and a full-route terminus at the Ramsey County Correctional Facility (70).

71. The northern half of the route becomes the 72. The southern half retains the 71 numbering and gets short-turns moved to Concord and Concord Exchange (71A, current 71B) and 80th and Cahill (71B, current 71CD). 71EF become 71.

New 72. Excised northern half of existing Route 71. 71K branch is eliminated. 71G terminus is eliminated. 71HK terminus becomes 72A. 71L terminus becomes 72 terminus.

New 73. What the existing Route 3B branch between Como and Snelling and downtown St. Paul is now known as.

74. The western half of the route becomes the 78. The eastern half loses the 74GK branch, all trips run to Sun Ray as 74s. The 74GK branch gets made into a 200-series crosstown route.

75. The 75D branch is eliminated and incorporated into a crosstown route (401) that is comprised of portions of it and existing Route 67 (new Route 76) and 68. All trips travel via current 75F routing to Livingston and Mendota, where a new Route 75A short-turn will be dropped. Route 75EF will become Route 75. Trips via Route 75E will be especially noted in the schedule.

New 76. Formerly the eastern half of Route 67. The 67H routing is retained and simply called the 67. The 67D routing is eliminated and combined with portions of existing routes 68 and 75 to create new crosstown Route 401.

New 78. What the western half of current Route 74 is now known as.

New 79. What the western half of current Route 70 is now known as.

New 83. What the eastern half of current Route 63 is now known as. Existing 63L service will be eliminated. 63K becomes 83, 63S becomes 83A.

84. 84D service is eliminated and incorporated into a revised Route 46. 84H service is now called 84A, and instead of traveling west on Ford Pkwy after diverting via Montreal, it goes east and terminates at Snelling and Ford Pkwy. 84F service is simply numbered 84.

94. All 94B trips are renumbered 94. All 94C trips are renumbered 194. All 94D trips are renumbered 994.

125. What current Route 25F trips are now known as.

194. What all existing Route 94C trips are now known as.

401. New crosstown route from Parkview Plaza in West St. Paul to South St. Paul and Inver Grove Hts. via Signal Hills Shopping Center and existing Routes 67H, 75D and 68CJ with an eastern terminus at 5th Ave Plaza (current 68CD terminus).

528. What the existing Route 6B branch is now known as. Route would start at 50th and France and continue via France, 54th, Wooddale, Valley View, 65th to Southdale. Then, route would continue via Route 6K to Edina Industrial Park.

994. What all existing Route 94D trips are now known as.

[MVTArider]

^They didn't say what the circulator route would be, I assume once a service plan for Cedar BRT is done then more details will emerge, it just says in the presentation; "Interim local circulator station; truly becomes a BRT station when Cedar is modified for skyway link to center-running BRT" what kind of route if any I don't know. Of course if they could add more service in the area that would be nice Hopefully those presentations will be up soon, I want to look at the station plans in more detail than a 1/4 page again.

^^ Got played again by the letters a couple weeks ago on the 21 , luckily I was able to catch the 63 to get to dwtn. St Paul. Dropping 84D would be good, my idea for 68 is if 68 would start in dwtn. then keep the 68A and 68B like you say, but instead of doing 68C just make that loop part of 68. Oh, suddenly taking to long to go from one end to the other? Not to worry, as with most other MT routes with L limited stop and/or X express service versions you can board L68 for quicker service to from Inver Hills/Downtown

[/pipe dream]

[Guest]

I was watching the Ahhnold movie!! "Jingle all the Way" The late Phil Hartman is so hilarious in the movie. He reminds me of me! Anyway the movie looks as if it was filmed on location in Minneapolis. They show MTC buses in some camera shots. The buses looked like Scanias, I even saw a number #1606. Did MTC operate Scanias at one time or could this be a fake Hollywood MTC bus? I remember a Tom Hanks/Jackie Gleason movie which was filmed in Chicago in the 80s, they did a collision scene when JG character crashes against a CTA 5303 style bus but it was a fake CTA fishbowl because of the phony paint scheme and graphics, although it looked like an 800 series, but I know it wasant.

[exitzero]

I was watching the Ahhnold movie!! "Jingle all the Way" The late Phil Hartman is so hilarious in the movie. He reminds me of me! Anyway the movie looks as if it was filmed on location in Minneapolis. They show MTC buses in some camera shots. The buses looked like Scanias, I even saw a number #1606. Did MTC operate Scanias at one time or could this be a fake Hollywood MTC bus?

MTC did indeed operate Scanias, 28 of them (#1601-1628), in fact. They were the MTC's first lift-equipped buses prior to the 1500-series Gillig Phantoms that came to Minneapolis in 1991.

[MVTArider]

Does anyone have pictures of those Scanias or ones that were similar? I've never seen one.

Also speaking of old MTC buses here is a link to A bold experiment, the Met Council at 40

[geneking7320]

Well I had to drop of my car for some maintenance so I rode 726 and 606 on 68 today, really good drivers too. The one guy pulled right onto the sidewalk at a few stops so the passengers didn't have to go through the snowbanks the plows left this morning. Its amazing how well the Phantoms seem to handle snow Anyways here's a few pics:

The CTA should look at the front of bus number 655. The vehicle number is located where it can be seen in spite of the bicycle rack.

[MVTArider]

The CTA should look at the front of bus number 655. The vehicle number is located where it can be seen in spite of the bicycle rack.

If they want to trade some of their NF D40LF's for some of our Gillig BRT's while we fix the #'s for them...

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I drove by the ABC lot in Faribault today, I didn't have time to get good pics but I did grab a couple from the road.

They have a bunch of old Greyhound and Jefferson Lines MCI's. I'll have to go back when there's more time and see if they will let me into their lot to take some photos.

[exitzero]

If they want to trade some of their NF D40LF's for some of our Gillig BRT's while we fix the #'s for them...

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I drove by the ABC lot in Faribault today, I didn't have time to get good pics but I did grab a couple from the road.

They have a bunch of old Greyhound and Jefferson Lines MCI's. I'll have to go back when there's more time and see if they will let me into their lot to take some photos.

I wonder if those NABI LFWs are ex-AC Transit units.

[MVTArider]

^I was wondering about that myself. Its hard to tell but they look like they have the slide windows and no A/C in the rear.

December's Cedar Ave. presentation is up.

Whee! Artics were back on the 54 today, I also saw one on the 5. Not many people on the 54 though.

EDIT: I wonder if there's another busfan in the area?