Pace Service Cuts

[Guest metralink]

Pace has been quite about service cuts, what service is proposed to be axed should the legislation in Springfield fail to come up with the money. Didn't their board pass last week to go to public meetings?

anyone know what is on the table to be cut?

How does this relate to the south/southwest/will expansion plans?

[Busjack]

I think that the CTA hearings were just to get the governor's attention, which they finally got. Pace knows that it has no political clout, so it will just wait for the gov to call them to Springfield (home of Mayor Quimby). Most of its deficit is in paratransit, of which the gov's budget allocates at least $54 million (Pace wants another $27 million), and the RTA has the legal responsibility to fund. According to yesterday's WGN news, some members of the disabled community blamed the CTA Board at one of the hearings for not getting more funding if paratransit is cut, even though the CTA washed its hands of that responsibility.

The South Cook-Will site clearly says that the "early 2008" expansions are dependent on new funds. Rest assured that the "late 2007" cutbacks will happen in any event. The second poster board for 355 went into considerable detail on why that won't go downtown anymore and how the Metra alternative is supposedly cheaper and faster.

[Busjack]

The Sun-Times has the first inkling of the Metra and Pace doomsday plans. Among other things, it really helps regional coordination to cut Metra feeder routes . Maybe that's an effort to get DuPage county involved.

A similar story from the Tribune.

I just realized that Pace's plan puts your screen name metralink into questionable status.

[Guest metralink]

[

I just realized that Pace's plan puts your screen name metralink into questionable status.

[trainman8119]

[

I just realized that Pace's plan puts your screen name metralink into questionable status.

Oh no, I need to retire my name. maybe Metra should pay to operate the feeders as an extension of their service similar to GO Transit in Chicago.

If Pace claims they can't afford to run the bus, and Metra claims to be in a $60 million hole, what makes you think that Metra can, or wants to pay to run the bus. Metra is a rail service, not a bus service. Metra subsidizes many of those feeder routes anyway. What is Pace doing with the $$$$ they get on those link routes. It seems that everyone pays to operate Pace buses except Pace (ie, UPS, CMAQ, subscription routes, although they are just about cooked, shuttle bugs contract carriers and on and on and on), yet they don't have any money to operate...and still will build a new Headquarters !!!!!!! I don't get it.

[Busjack]

Makes no more or less sense than CTA threatening to cancel services subsidized by the U of C and Avon (or Workforce Development) because they don't run on Sunday. Probably just establishes that this is only a scare tactic. As for the new headquarters, also the same as CTA--it is earmarked money so spend it or lose it. We're talking about the government, after all.

[Guest metralink]

What is Pace doing with the $$$$ they get on those link routes. It seems that everyone pays to operate Pace buses except Pace (ie, UPS, CMAQ, subscription routes, although they are just about cooked, shuttle bugs contract carriers and on and on and on), yet they don't have any money to operate...and still will build a new Headquarters !!!!!!! I don't get it.

Let's give them a break, how many more miricles do you need to see from them before saying something nice. Why does Pace rely on other partners to fund service? simple, they don't receive the proper amount of sales tax required to fund a real suburban transit agency. Let's see, CTA receives more funding than Pace in suburban Cook, and when was the last time you ever saw CTA in Schaumburg, NEVER!!! Yes the buses dont have the frequency or coverage with routes they need but at least they have plans for them as part of MBC.

The demand is there, this is the whole issue of why Pace can't expand, they are given bare bones budget.

As for the new headquarters, the press mentioned it was grant funded, if they don't build a new efficient building the money is lost, goes back to DC and is given somewhere else. Basically we loose it. A new building was supposed to be built I believe 10 yrs ago but was pulled due to budget cuts, imagine the money they could have saved with a new building over 10 yrs.

The Daily Herald paper even supported a new building saying there is no space in the building and its inefficent. They probably saw what it looks like inside

[trainman8119]

The Daily Herald paper even supported a new building saying there is no space in the building and its inefficent. They probably saw what it looks like inside

The building is a pit now, and it was a pit 7 years ago when I worked there. The reason the building was not built 10 years ago has nothing to do with budget cuts then, but it had more to do with politics and egos. Florence Boone, who was the Chariman (or Chairperson, if you want to be PC) of the board, was all for building a new headquarters. At the time, though, it was fashionable to go into a big building for practically free and get your name put on the outside to boot. Many questioned why they should build a new building when they could get free (or next to free) rent. Those on the board who were ready for Flo to retire, felt it was more that she wanted to have her name on the building so she would be remembered after she retired (which may or may not have been the truth). There were plans drawn up, and some funding secured. However, the egos took over and quashed the plan, Flo retired and the no grant money was received from the pols until the issue came up again recently. So, now again, the push is on dump the old trashy cramped building (which it is...no argument here). What is being questioned, is why do it now...loss of money or not. With potential service cuts, it does not look well in the public eye to build a new building when they are unable to provide basic services at a reasonable cost to the user. This is very simuliar to the scenario to 8 or so years ago.

[Busjack]

As with everything, the answer is somewhat in the middle. Trainman should know that there is a lot of internal politics in Pace; that is the case everywhere. CTA proved that it is only a Daley patronage arm by its board not conducting an independent search for a President, and relying on the State Legislature to bail it out instead of acknowledging that the Auditor General made numerous recommendations on how CTA could improve its operations. Pace ranked highly in its peer group in the Auditor General's report, while CTA was below average in many areas. Carole Brown's only response was to criticize the Auditor's rankings, instead of acknowledging that CTA has a lot of internal housekeeping to do. Yet, Frank Kruesi's (and some Internet apologists') view was that somehow suburban taxpayers owed the CTA, despite its mismanagement and the politicization of its operation.

With regard to headquarters, CTA built the new Lake Street ones a couple of years ago, also with the justifications that it was a federal earmark and using capital to build it relieved it of the need to use operating funds to rent space at the Merchandise Mart. However, many have criticized it as being a "Taj Mahal," and the AG noted that CTA overbuilt, in that it moved some offices from the Racine St. Operating Center to Lake Street, resulting in an enormous amount of vacant office space at both locations. At least Pace says its new headquarters will not be extravagant.

I would suggest that before making any conclusions (or rants) about how any of the Service Boards (or the RTA for that matter) operates, you read the Auditor General's reports. Here are links to the Executive Summary, and Main Report. Especially for you students, it is a good lesson on how government works here.

As for the main topic of Pace Service Cuts, Pace has published its Plan of Action and Route cut list. I'm not happy about it as one of the routes I fought to save two years ago is back on it, which also means that paratransit service in my area will also be cut. (Buslover, didn't you say you were among the group it was designed to serve?) However, seeing that certain routes (such as 831) are continually put on the chopping block reflects what I said before that not all of Pace needs a 40 foot bus. If any of this gets implemented, there will be about 50 (or even more) brand new 30 foot buses available, and Pace sure won't need the 25 buses it says it won't order.

Also, it seems like each service board is doing its best to injure another (whether intentionally or not). While the CTA Press Release says that its plan adheres to the principle to "maintain regional connections where possible," the attached Impacts document includes "Decrease in Pace ridership due to lost CTA connections." Pace is apparently telling Metra that its subsidy is not worth the cost of providing feeder service. Since feeder service is most prevalent in places such as Naperville, where there is a long waiting list for station parking, are those Metra riders going to be dropped off at the station, or just drive downtown? It will be interesting to see how Metra retaliates against the other providers.

Finally, I wonder why Pace is cutting 208 both on Sunday and the Weekend (if I read the chart properly). A bit of cognitive dissonance there.

[trainman8119]

As for the main topic of Pace Service Cuts, Pace has published its Plan of Action and Route cut list.

Finally, I wonder why Pace is cutting 208 both on Sunday and the Weekend (if I read the chart properly). A bit of cognitive dissonance there.

Looking at the list, it seems as though Pace is following in the CTA's footsteps in making cuts without really analyzing what they are cutting. The difference here is that they seem to be flat out cutting out any weekend service...and if it doesn't run on a weekend, then it is cut out all together (similar to CTA Sunday scenario). That would leave a skeletal weekday service along with paratransit (at a cost nobody will be able to afford) and van pool, which I feel shouldn't even be discussed in any kind of doomsday, since it isn't really service (I don't know exactly what you would classify that as).

Are not the Shuttle Bugs effectively financed by the companies that are serviced by them (as are the UPS routes for example). If that is the case, why would those routes be on the chopping block ????

[Busjack]

Are not the Shuttle Bugs effectively financed by the companies that are serviced by them (as are the UPS routes for example). If that is the case, why would those routes be on the chopping block ????

They may be paying the "fares" (there is supposedly a $1 fare if you don't display company ID, although when I worked up there, I was not asked for it), but there are apparently other subsidies, as the schedules also acknowledge Metra, the system was started with a CMAQ grant, and 627 stays only while the CMAQ grant is still in effect. Hence, probably a situation similar to Niles, although it is probably just as stupid as CTA cutting its U of C, Avon, and UPS routes.

If push comes to shove, would the TMA contract out the service itself? (Some people said it did during the early years, although I am not aware of that.)

[Busjack]

Maybe as another indication that either people are working at cross purposes, or the Doomsday plan is just a political threat, Pace is advertising that Naperville is funding free rides to and from the Route 59 station and free Transit Tuesdays for trips to the Naperville station.

[Busjack]

By the way, we should be able to conclude and/or rant without reading some report, most of us know how government works already.

You may have freedom of speech, but you know that I disagree with your final conclusion, reflected in the above quotation. In the case of Pace, I don't think you are informed if you think it is worse run than CTA, and informed citizens should take the Auditor's independent findings seriously.

If they cut the METRA feeders, METRA is going to throw a huge fit and you'll hear about it.

I guess you are agreeing with my prior point that the agencies are acting in a way to injure or at least antagonize each other, whether intentionally or not. I guess you are saying that CTA can afford to do that, while Pace can't.

Anyways, I think this is one of many punches until PACE won't operate anymore.

Maybe we are headed for a 1981 style shutdown of suburban service and doubling of CTA fares. That might spur real reform, as the legislature and governor do not seem willing to deal with the current package. Remember, Huberman said that if the money is not received and the contingency plan is not implemented, CTA will be out of business in October. Also, if the CTA does not deal with the structural deficit issues identified by Huberman, the taxpayer well will eventually go dry.

[Guest metralink]

while they are not perfect, it seems Pace does try to provide the best service they can with what little resources RTA gives them, the Northwest service is decent.

The real issue is suburban transit is underfunded

[Guest metralink]

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Breaking news: a friend of mine told me that PACE is losing ridership on lots of routes, so in the next few years, there might not be a PACE!!

Today on Pace's website, they announced May ridership highest since 1991, so much for ridership lose.

[rmadisonwi]

To Metralink: That was May, it's June 22nd now, and i'm not saying that the routes are losing ridership right NOW, but they will start to, soon.

Wait a second...didn't you just say:

Breaking news: a friend of mine told me that PACE is losing ridership on lots of routes, so in the next few years, there might not be a PACE!!

How could you possibly know what the ridership trend is going to be in the next few months? In all honesty, there's not a huge difference from one month to the next when it comes to ridership trends. If May is up really high, then June could be up really high, it could be up even higher, or it could be up, but not by as much. And since monthly ridership figures probably wouldn't be available until the middle of next month, at the earliest, how could anyone say that they are losing ridership on "lots of routes?"

If you, or your friend, really knows what the future ridership is going to be, then I suggest you start playing the lottery because you probably know what next week's numbers are, too.

[Guest metralink]

If you, or your friend, really knows what the future ridership is going to be, then I suggest you start playing the lottery because you probably know what next week's numbers are, too.

If you can predict ridership, apply for a job at Pace. what is the basis of your ridership loss predictions?

[Buslover88]

I have decided to take down my posts from this thread, as this thread is worthless, and I don't care if I was quoted.

[Busjack]

I have decided to take down my posts from this thread, as this thread is worthless, and I don't care if I was quoted.

The thread wasn't worthless, as it shed some light on Pace's strategy of cutting feeder routes and how CTA is certainly less well run than Pace, although Pace treats its federal earmarks in the same manner CTA does (spend it or lose it). It also provided a history lesson on what happens when the RTA falls apart (as it did once and may do again). It does demonstrate that to be useful, one should be informed before posting.

[Guest]

The thread wasn't worthless, as it shed some light on Pace's strategy of cutting feeder routes and how CTA is certainly less well run than Pace, although Pace treats its federal earmarks in the same manner CTA does (spend it or lose it). It also provided a history lesson on what happens when the RTA falls apart (as it did once and may do again). It does demonstrate that to be useful, one should be informed before posting.

I see the routes Pace plans to cut should the funding not be available in Sept. Being one of the newest operators at Academy, I will certainly lose my position if this happens. Three of the six routes that we operate at Academy will be eliminated including my usual route 616 and weekend service on the 606 will be reduced. I hope the funding will be available. I think the contract work for Pace is great, Id certainly hate to lose my position.

[Busjack]

It would also about wipe out Laidlaw's contracts in Du Page, and probably not make it worth it to run North Shore as a separate division (about all that would be left there would be 213, 215, 421, 423, and 626, which, as in pre-1990, could be run out of Northwest or otherwise).

[thectaexpert]

I HAVE THIS TO SAY -- IF THEY CUT THE #352, I AM GOING TO BE REAL MAD!!!!

[Guest]

I HAVE THIS TO SAY -- IF THEY CUT THE #352, I AM GOING TO BE REAL MAD!!!!

My passengers have been warned. I run the 616 out of Academy and my regulars have been made aware of it. Theyre not very happy.

[Busjack]

With regard to the political nature of the service cuts, see from Moving into the Future, received today:

We encourage you--along with friends and family--to share your concerns about the impact that fare increases, the elimination of all weekend service and Metra feeder service, and reduced paratransit service would have on you. ... Share your story--your Pace service depends on it! For more information on this legislation, please contact Rocky Donahue.

Again, while a contingency plan may be necessary until the legislature gets off its collective duff (Springfield...Duff Beer), this only reinforces my prior view that the cuts Pace and CTA described were also for political shock effect. Also, on June 13, Carole Brown said on Ask Carole "The most frequently asked questions [at the CTA Board hearings on the cuts] will be posted here soon" but, of course, haven't been as of this writing, although she now says that legislation is making progress.

If any of you are interested, you may look at Sick Transit Chicago for a discussion about how the legislature is not revealing what the substance of that legislation will be, although general guidelines were given to the media and the original amendments to SB 572 have been posted. Of concern there is that the legislation will be so watered down that there will not be real reform.

[sw4400]

Pace knows that it has no political clout, so it will just wait for the gov to call them to Springfield (home of Mayor Quimby).

OT, Busjack: Why do you keep bringing this up in most of your conversations concerning Springfield?