Fishbowl questions

[BusHunter]

Remember the old #300 -#449 series GM fishbowls. Did they have at the back door 2 seperate glass windows or one (one at the top of the door and bottom or just the top)? I was looking at #301 (CTA's historic fleet) and see that it only has the top glass window on the back door. Then I recently saw a picture of #308 and it has both glass windows what is correct?

[Guest]

Remember the old #300 -#449 series GM fishbowls. Did they have at the back door 2 seperate glass windows or one (one at the top of the door and bottom or just the top)? I was looking at #301 (CTA's historic fleet) and see that it only has the top glass window on the back door. Then I recently saw a picture of #308 and it has both glass windows what is correct?

I believe they were delivered with the top and bottom windows on the rear doors but later they may have been converted to just top windows. I know the #100-249 series were delivered with the top and bottom windows.

[BusHunter]

Also on the #300 - #449 series, when I look at the rear tailights of the buses from this series like #375 on gmbus.com it shows the original tailight design. Now somewhere along the line the tailights have been changed on #301 to be the same as a #1000 fishbowl tailight. My question. When did the tailight change take place and did the entire remaining fleet of 300's get this? As a kid in the early 1980's I seem to remember alot of these with the #1000 tailight design and don't remember any like the original tailight design.

[Guest]

Also on the #300 - #449 series, when I look at the rear tailights of the buses from this series like #375 on gmbus.com it shows the original tailight design. Now somewhere along the line the tailights have been changed on #301 to be the same as a #1000 fishbowl tailight. My question. When did the tailight change take place and did the entire remaining fleet of 300's get this? As a kid in the early 1980's I seem to remember alot of these with the #1000 tailight design and don't remember any like the original tailight design.

I remember the original taillight design on the 300s. Some, not all of the buses were refitted with the updated tailgate. I remember seeing 300s operating through the Lincoln Pk area a couple in particular GMC #444 and #449 had the 1000 series style tailgate. I also remember that loud, hissing engine sound they made when the driver would accelerate. I remember one day my dad drove one at North ave. Im guessing it was a borrowed bus because North Ave. werent assigned the 300s. I think the buses looked cool with both styles of taillights. The 300s at the time before they were retired were running out of the old Limits Garage. If you want to see one "in action" check out the movie "Cooley High" # 388 makes a cameo appearance along with CTA GMC #1515 on the 70 Division route.

[BusHunter]

I remember the original taillight design on the 300s. Some, not all of the buses were refitted with the updated tailgate. I remember seeing 300s operating through the Lincoln Pk area a couple in particular GMC #444 and #449 had the 1000 series style tailgate. I also remember that loud, hissing engine sound they made when the driver would accelerate. I remember one day my dad drove one at North ave. Im guessing it was a borrowed bus because North Ave. werent assigned the 300s. I think the buses looked cool with both styles of taillights. The 300s at the time before they were retired were running out of the old Limits Garage. If you want to see one "in action" check out the movie "Cooley High" # 388 makes a cameo appearance along with CTA GMC #1515 on the 70 Division route.

Yeah, that bus looked really good in that movie. If I'm remembering correctly it was painted white around the windshield area another change in that series. This change started to occur around the early 70's according to this magazine I've got. (Don't know how many of the buses were ever repainted this way, if it was all of them or what.) You know I learned from surfing the web that #302 and #308 were at North Avenue in 1977. If that helps you.

[BusHunter]

I was thinking about the back doors of the fishbowls. When did the air pressurized assisting back door come out at CTA? As a kid I seem to remember that all #300's had the back door that was opened with only human power ( no air assist) and I seem to remember the #1000's being this way too. (like the pace #8700's for people too young to remember this) The #9600's all had the air assisting back door. Now the #9000's I seem to remember most of these with the air assist like maybe they could have been retrofitted to the existing fleet, but my memories are hazy. Any thoughts?

[Busjack]

I was thinking about the back doors of the fishbowls. When did the air pressurized assisting back door come out at CTA? As a kid I seem to remember that all #300's had the back door that was opened with only human power ( no air assist) and I seem to remember the #1000's being this way too. (like the pace #8700's for people too young to remember this) The #9600's all had the air assisting back door. Now the #9000's I seem to remember most of these with the air assist like maybe they could have been retrofitted to the existing fleet, but my memories are hazy. Any thoughts?

They were tested on the 1340s on the 149 Stateliner route.

Chicago's Rapid Transit Vol II: 1947-1976 has on page 40 a picture of 6048 in the Training and Behavior Education Center along with "The new bus is in for training on touch bar exit doors," but there is no date, and the fleet number isn't visible to me. The book does say that 6047-6048 went to TABEC on 8/74, which would be contemporaneous with receiving the 7400s. My memory isn't that good.

[trainman8119]

I was thinking about the back doors of the fishbowls. When did the air pressurized assisting back door come out at CTA? As a kid I seem to remember that all #300's had the back door that was opened with only human power ( no air assist) and I seem to remember the #1000's being this way too. (like the pace #8700's for people too young to remember this) The #9600's all had the air assisting back door. Now the #9000's I seem to remember most of these with the air assist like maybe they could have been retrofitted to the existing fleet, but my memories are hazy. Any thoughts?

I think the first buses received to actually have this feature were the 9000 series fishbowls. I seem to remember an inquiry to the old action line column in the old Chicago Today which showed a pic of bus 9223 and a few notes about what was new on those buses. Among the changes at the time were the numbers being put over the front bumper, a chime instead of the old buzzer for stops and the "easy out" exit doors. I think the 7400 series buses came with the old manual push back doors.

[rwdillon]

I drove 100s, 300s and 400s fishbowls from Keeler (76 Diversey; 152 Addison) and Limits garages in the mid-1960s. The 100s and 200s were delivered with a lower pair of windows in the rear door. The 300s and 400s did not have the lower windows. None of these buses had air assisted doors.

[rwdillon]

I wanted to clarify my earlier reply that about unpowered doors on the early CTA fishbowls. I meant the rear door as being unpowered. Also, I don't believe that CTAs historic 301 fishbowl is the original item, but is probably a later model repainted and renumbered to look like the 301. CTAs original 300s and 400s did not have bezels around the front turn signals. The historic 301 has them.

[BusHunter]

Does anyone remember the first air conditioned New Looks from GM and Flxible in 1965? (#800 - #804 and #3240 - #3244) I was wondering what the rear of the flxibles looked like with AC. Did they have a vent at the top of the rear like the fishbowls of the 1970's or was the equipment tucked under the rear of the bus not being noticeable right away by the naked eye? I have learned that the #800's had a vent at the top of the rear with a 100's tailgate, but it seems there are are no rear end pictures of these #3240's in a book or anywhere. ( that I know of) Any comments?

[Guest]

Does anyone remember the first air conditioned New Looks from GM and Flxible in 1965? (#800 - #804 and #3240 - #3244) I was wondering what the rear of the flxibles looked like with AC. Did they have a vent at the top of the rear like the fishbowls of the 1970's or was the equipment tucked under the rear of the bus not being noticeable right away by the naked eye? I have learned that the #800's had a vent at the top of the rear with a 100's tailgate, but it seems there are are no rear end pictures of these #3240's in a book or anywhere. ( that I know of) Any comments?

Ive seen pics of the Flxible 3240s and they looked no different than the rest of the Flxible fleet so its possible the a/c may have been tucked away somewhere. Now the 800s, they did have the a/c condenser on the rear just like the 1000s. The 800s were the TDH5303 series GM bus, they had the 300s paint scheme but with the condenser on the rear and the tailgate of the 100s. Motor Coach Age magazines' series on CTA shows a good pic of the rear of an 800. I remember as a kid seeing the 800s on 9 Ashland and since there were only 5 ordered they werent too visible. They were oddball buses since there were only 5 of them. I wonder what if the 800s were refitted with the 1000 series tailgate, wouldnt that be something?. A GMC fishbowl combination of 100s, 800s and 1000s. I had never seen the 3240s.

[trainman8119]

Does anyone remember the first air conditioned New Looks from GM and Flxible in 1965? (#800 - #804 and #3240 - #3244) I was wondering what the rear of the flxibles looked like with AC.

I remember those buses being assigned to the O'Harexpress route when it was created back in 1970. There were a couple of the GM 800s and a couple of the 3200's. I remember the big deal with it being air conditioned, since the 1000 series buses weren't quite in the Jeff Park area yet. I also recall that the 3240 Flxibles were used in all the promo info (route maps, ad cars, etc) for that route.

[BusHunter]

I wonder what if the 800s were refitted with the 1000 series tailgate, wouldnt that be something?. A GMC fishbowl combination of 100s, 800s and 1000s. I had never seen the 3240s.

Well personally, I love these #800 buses. If I had a time machine 1965 would be the first place I'd go. I love the 100's tailgate, it looks so classic like a '57 chevy. These 5 buses were really something special. Isn't it ironic that the Nf #800's have the same numbers, both series buses being new technology with cutting edge features for their time. On another subject, did the #8500's have the same tailgate as the #8700's (like on Busdrawings.com) or a totally different one?

[trainman8119]

On another subject, did the #8500's have the same tailgate as the #8700's (like on Busdrawings.com) or a totally different one?

Yes they did. They looked pretty much the same, except for the side windows. The rear end didn't change until the 3000 series arrived in 1969.

[Guest]

Well personally, I love these #800 buses. If I had a time machine 1965 would be the first place I'd go. I love the 100's tailgate, it looks so classic like a '57 chevy. These 5 buses were really something special. Isn't it ironic that the Nf #800's have the same numbers, both series buses being new technology with cutting edge features for their time. On another subject, did the #8500's have the same tailgate as the #8700's (like on Busdrawings.com) or a totally different one?

I wish one of the 800 GMCs were saved. That was an interesting bus series. Yes the Flxible 8500s had the early tailgate lamps as the 8700s, the lamps were mounted on the tailgate door instead of the corners like the 3000s. I liked all versions. 8500, 3000, and 3700 styles. The mid 1960s wouldve been the best time to view some great CTA equipment. The 5000/5500/8000/8500 propanes were in service, #8499 was running, the 3000s were just coming online, there were the 100 and 300 GMCs, the 800s were released, and we still had the 7200 Macks and some GMC old looks still in service as well. And who could forget the Marmon trolley coaches running out of North ave. On the rapid transit side you had overhead power 4000s on the Evanston line, OHare rail was just a dream, Logan Square is alll we had. The 6000s were in their prime. If I could go back to view vintage Chicago buses I would want to go back to 1964 at the corner of State and Madison and also North ave garage. On the rail side I would want to be at the Armitage stop to see the North South line 6000s coming in and out of the subway. The 2000s would be a new thing and the 4000s would be "Doing it" on the Ravenswood. I would love to have ridden a 4000 in the State st subway, Ill bet it was an eardrum buster like the 6000s were. I once lived near the Armitage station and I grew up watching the 6000s along the line. I also enjoyed standing underneath the "L" watching and listening to that super loud rumble of that Jackson Pk Howard or Englwood Howard train heading north. I have a video of 6000s which really captured it well. My goodness Id love to go back to those days. I occasionally make trips back to the Armitage station especially during the air show weekend and watch the trains, its not the same but it reminds me so much of how 6000s once ruled on these lines. There used to be a double crossover there but that crossing has since been removed. Dont get me wrong I think 3200s look cool on there today but these were memories that you never forget. These are the same memories like when you watched Bozo, Ray Rayner or Garfield Goose when you were a kid. The CTA played a huge part in my childhood because my dad drove for the CTA for 27 years.

[BusHunter]

Around 1983, there was this fishbowl bus that used to run on the #41 Elston. It was a dark blue color. Also it had the old human powered rear doors as well as a circle light for the rear door green light, not the more current figure 8 lights. This both showed it was an older fishbowl. There was a very limited few if more than 1. I would only see this one bus on the one route. Curiously strange. Where did this fishbowl come from? I have learned that some Flyer buses had cracks in the frame and were sent back for repair exchanging buses with temp fishbowl buses from Flyer Corp., but I learned through pictures that the Fishbowls were at FG in 1987. Not the same timeframe. So what was I riding?

[jajuan]

Around 1983, there was this fishbowl bus that used to run on the #41 Elston. It was a dark blue color. Also it had the old human powered rear doors as well as a circle light for the rear door green light, not the more current figure 8 lights. This both showed it was an older fishbowl. There was a very limited few if more than 1. I would only see this one bus on the one route. Curiously strange. Where did this fishbowl come from? I have learned that some Flyer buses had cracks in the frame and were sent back for repair exchanging buses with temp fishbowl buses from Flyer Corp., but I learned through pictures that the Fishbowls were at FG in 1987. Not the same timeframe. So what was I riding?

I don't really remember that one, but I do remember a fishbowl at FG number 95xx (don't remember last two digits) in the early 90s that had a rear similar to the TMCs before their rehab to add air conditioners. I believe it had an exhaust pipe above the left rear like that of the New Flyers both 5800 and 1000 models. I remember riding it on the 85 Central a few times and on the 91 Austin.

[Chicago13]

I don't really remember that one, but I do remember a fishbowl at FG number 95xx (don't remember last two digits) in the early 90s that had a rear similar to the TMCs before their rehab to add air conditioners. I believe it had an exhaust pipe above the left rear like that of the New Flyers both 5800 and 1000 models. I remember riding it on the 85 Central a few times and on the 91 Austin.

That was 9532. It also had an early LED desitnation sign and run number box. I can't remember why they redid the rear end like that. I think it had to do with some kind of engine test.

[Guest]

That was 9532. It also had an early LED desitnation sign and run number box. I can't remember why they redid the rear end like that. I think it had to do with some kind of engine test.

Does anyone have any pics of CTA rebuild #9532?

[Busjack]

That was 9532. It also had an early LED desitnation sign and run number box. I can't remember why they redid the rear end like that. I think it had to do with some kind of engine test.

Krambles, page 54, says, with regard to the 5300s: "The bulk of the order uses Detroit Diesel 6V92T turbocharged engines (first introduced on rebuilt GMC bus 9532)."

[Chicago13]

Krambles, page 54, says, with regard to the 5300s: "The bulk of the order uses Detroit Diesel 6V92T turbocharged engines (first introduced on rebuilt GMC bus 9532)."

Ah yes, that was it. I knew I saw the answer somewhere. I have that book. I should have dug it out.

[BusHunter]

Does anyone have any pics of CTA rebuild #9532?

Channel 7 once had a story at Harlem/blue line with #9532 in the background in the #90N bay, the old one over the bridge. They might have been talking about it or some other CTA event. I don't know. I wish I had recorded that!! Also if you watch the movie Backdraft when the firemen come out of the bar and are talking in front of the bar, a green storefront, in actuality they are standing on the corner of Grand/Milwaukee on that SE corner. Well if you look in the background there is a bus that is stopped like it is picking up passengers at Hubbard/Milwaukee. That bus looks like #9532, but it is really small and you need good eyes to see it or a big TV (talk to your sister, you probably need a TV that size.) I swear that is the bus, the rear end looks the same. In regards to the bus itself, I seen it plenty of times on Pulaski after the albino's were moved from Fg. I remember the rear destination sign was stuck on #90N. Also the windows were black framed. The bus reminded me alot of #9974. I once rode the bus and noticed the rear window was actually the size of the #9800's rear window. Alot of pieces were taken off other buses to put on this one. You know the posts on the back of the bus on fishbowls where you would normally see no smoking signs. On #9000's those were silver on #1000's those were coffee brown. On #9532 they were coffee brown and the whole metal work around them was coffee brown. It actually was a good match, it looked very professional. That was a nice bus too bad someone didn't save it and #9974.

[Guest]

Channel 7 once had a story at Harlem/blue line with #9532 in the background in the #90N bay, the old one over the bridge. They might have been talking about it or some other CTA event. I don't know. I wish I had recorded that!! Also if you watch the movie Backdraft when the firemen come out of the bar and are talking in front of the bar, a green storefront, in actuality they are standing on the corner of Grand/Milwaukee on that SE corner. Well if you look in the background there is a bus that is stopped like it is picking up passengers at Hubbard/Milwaukee. That bus looks like #9532, but it is really small and you need good eyes to see it or a big TV (talk to your sister, you probably need a TV that size.) I swear that is the bus, the rear end looks the same. In regards to the bus itself, I seen it plenty of times on Pulaski after the albino's were moved from Fg. I remember the rear destination sign was stuck on #90N. Also the windows were black framed. The bus reminded me alot of #9974. I once rode the bus and noticed the rear window was actually the size of the #9800's rear window. Alot of pieces were taken off other buses to put on this one. You know the posts on the back of the bus on fishbowls where you would normally see no smoking signs. On #9000's those were silver on #1000's those were coffee brown. On #9532 they were coffee brown and the whole metal work around them was coffee brown. It actually was a good match, it looked very professional. That was a nice bus too bad someone didn't save it and #9974.

Actually the bus you see in that scene in Backdraft is a CTA GMC 9532 and of course you get a nice close up of the 56 Milwaukee bus stop in front of "Emmitts", the pub used in the movie. And if watch the scene when his car stalls under the "L" tracks you can hear a bus what sounds to me like Flyer #9919 on the 56 Milwaukee. I remember #9919 had a deeper louder sound than the rest of the Flyers. But also I remember a few years ago when I used to watch "ER", #9532 did appear in an episode. I never forgottten that scene I only wish I knew which episode it was. But I did see it going past the camera very close too I might add, it had that weird back end. So if anyone watches past episodes of ER watch out for it, 9532 does appear. Other movies you could see old CTA buses "Ferris Bueller Day Off" Youll see an old Flyer in its two tone green delivery colors and GMC fishbowls. Im trying to find other movies filmed in Chicago where you might see old CTA equipment. The movie "Cooley High" from 1975 is the earliest Ive seen on film. They used a 300 series GMC fishbowl #388 for a scene. Id like to see if there were any films of the late sixties or early 70s filmed in Chicago which CTA equipment appears. Id like to see if any Flxible old look propanes appear in any on location movies. Yes its too bad #9532 wasant saved, you would think they would save a "one of a kind" bus just like Flxible #8499. At the time of 9532s existence I wasnt living in Chicago, I was in the Navy at the time so I lost touch for a couple of years with CTA buses. I had just left for boot camp when that massive 1991 TMC/Flxible Metro delivery was taking place. I remember seeing TMC 4400 for the first time on the 22 Clark near Wrigley Field. I saw 9532 a couple of times but I never made time to find out about it. I only wish someone may have had a video camera back then and shot some video of this bus. It dosent appear in any of the "Bus World" magazines as well.

[Chicago13]

Actually the bus you see in that scene in Backdraft is a Flyer and of course you get a nice close up of the 56 Milwaukee bus stop in front of "Emmitts", the pub used in the movie. And if watch the scene when his car stalls under the "L" tracks you can hear a bus what sounds to me like Flyer #9919 on the 56 Milwaukee. I remember #9919 had a deeper louder sound than the rest of the Flyers. But also I remember a few years ago when I used to watch "ER", #9532 did appear in an episode. I never forgottten that scene I only wish I knew which episode it was. But I did see it going past the camera very close too I might add, it had that weird back end. So if anyone watches past episodes of ER watch out for it, 9532 does appear. Other movies you could see old CTA buses "Ferris Bueller Day Off" Youll see an old Flyer in its two tone green delivery colors and GMC fishbowls. Im trying to find other movies filmed in Chicago where you might see old CTA equipment. The movie "Cooley High" from 1975 is the earliest Ive seen on film. They used a 300 series GMC fishbowl #388 for a scene. Id like to see if there were any films of the late sixties or early 70s filmed in Chicago which CTA equipment appears. Id like to see if any Flxible old look propanes appear in any on location movies. Yes its too bad #9532 wasant saved, you would think they would save a "one of a kind" bus just like Flxible #8499. At the time of 9532s existence I wasnt living in Chicago, I was in the Navy at the time so I lost touch for a couple of years with CTA buses. I had just left for boot camp when that massive 1991 TMC/Flxible Metro delivery was taking place. I remember seeing TMC 4400 for the first time on the 22 Clark near Wrigley Field. I saw 9532 a couple of times but I never made time to find out about it. I only wish someone may have had a video camera back then and shot some video of this bus. It dosent appear in any of the "Bus World" magazines as well.

3722 makes an appearance in Backdraft near the beginning of the film in the scene where the McCaffrey brother's father is going to the fire that eventually kills him.