Seattle MAN artics?

[Anonymous Guy]

After discovering this site via Google searches, I finally found out where the old Seattle MAN articulated buses went. However, after looking through the images, I got curious about a few things:

1. Were the flip-dot signs pretty much dead on arrival in Chicago? I don't remember seeing such a high rate of failure on the signs when they were in service in Seattle.

2. Did the CTA ever receive any of the Seattle MANs in the non-sunrise brown and yellow color scheme? I remember seeing quite a few Seattle MAN artics underneath the current King County Green/Yellow and Purple/Yellow paint scheme. The repainted ones seemed to be in presentable shape when I saw them running, but the sunrise colored ones in the images section look like they're falling apart. Maybe Seattle sent off it's unused/unmaintained fleet?

3. Finally, did they perform any better than the current NABIs? I seem to be running across a lot of horror stories about those artics here.

Thanks.

[Busjack]

1. Some were still flipping, others were frozen in various positions, but none were readable. Trying to use lower case letters on some didn't help.
   
2. Some were repainted in the CTA white blue and red scheme, others remained brown and yellow. I don't recall any other scheme.
   
3. The sale was supposedly limited to one Seattle series (see the description in the Buses Section, and is indicated in some of the pictures and my personal observation from the Howard L platform, the original numbers remained on the roof). The Seattle buses were supposedly better than the CTA 7100 series buses that they replaced, most of which were unusable when the Seattle ones were received. The reason supposedly was that Seattle had less severe winters. However, some soon had engine fires, and they looked pretty beat up by the time they had any service in Chicago. For instance, I rode one where the driver had to cycle the lift several times before it stowed. I can't speak whether they were better than the subsequent NABIs; a North Park or 103rd driver could do that.
   

[Anonymous Guy]

Thanks for the reply!

However, some soon had engine fires, and they looked pretty beat up by the time they had any service in Chicago. For instance, I rode one where the driver had to cycle the lift several times before it stowed. I can't speak whether they were better than the subsequent NABIs; a North Park or 103rd driver could do that.

Sounds like they were pretty much on their last legs during their short tenure in Chicago, which is understandable. Oh, and here's one of the repainted Seattle MANs in question:

[Guest]

Thanks for the reply!

Sounds like they were pretty much on their last legs during their short tenure in Chicago, which is understandable. Oh, and here's one of the repainted Seattle MANs in question:

his picure is the funeral of the Seattle Metro bus operator who was killed when he was attacked by an enraged pssenger. The passnger attacked the driver which caused him to lose control and plunge off a bridge into a house below. The number on the sign "2106" was the drivers badge number.

[Anonymous Guy]

his picure is the funeral of the Seattle Metro bus operator who was killed when he was attacked by an enraged pssenger. The passnger attacked the driver which caused him to lose control and plunge off a bridge into a house below. The number on the sign "2106" was the drivers badge number.

Here's where I got the image from (the Mark McLaughlin funeral procession):

http://www.busdude.com/HTML/KCM_MML_4thave.htm

[Busjack]

As for the original point, there wasn't anything on the street in Chicago with that paint job. Now, whether someone can trace that unit number and demonstrate that it was painted white, I don't know.

[Guest]

Here's where I got the image from (the Mark McLaughlin funeral procession):

http://www.busdude.com/HTML/KCM_MML_4thave.htm

I wonder if anyone had a video camera that may have filmed the procession. Id sure like to get a video of the procession and see all the buses that turned out for this operators funeral.

[BusHunter]

As for the original point, there wasn't anything on the street in Chicago with that paint job. Now, whether someone can trace that unit number and demonstrate that it was painted white, I don't know.

I have about 90 percent of the former Seattle numbers that were used here for our #7300's. Some were impossible to get because the roofs had been completly painted over. I will tell you this even though I can't find a #2113 ever being here, there were numbers all around it, #2114 was #7319 and #2112 was #7320. The highest number ever used here was #2201 our #7347, the lowest #2001 our #7326. Maybe this week I'll put up my entire list for you to see, including paint jobs here. If I get the time.

[Busjack]

The highest number ever used here was #2201 our #7347, the lowest #2001 our #7326.

As Al Reinschmidt's Seattle Roster indicates that that the range was 2000-2201, we apparently got 114 of 202.

[RIPTA42]

I have about 90 percent of the former Seattle numbers that were used here for our #7300's...Maybe this week I'll put up my entire list for you to see, including paint jobs here. If I get the time.

I'd like to see that list.

[BusHunter]

Here is my former Seattle numbers list. Some things to note. Chicago paint is a red/white/blue livery and Seattle paint is the yellow/white painted buses. (Seattle livery with CTA logos put on it.) In cases of the words "no Seattle number" that just means the roof was painted over. Okay, #2133 was our #7300 with Chicago paint, #7301 no Seattle number Chicago paint, #2106 was our #7302 with Chicago paint, #2085 was our #7303 with Chicago paint, #2183 was our #7304 with Chicago paint, #2081 was our #7305 with Seattle paint, #2040 was our #7306 with Chicago paint, #2175 was our #7307 with Seattle paint, #2187 was our #7308 with Chicago paint, #7309 no Seattle number with Seattle paint, #2017 was our #7310 with Chicago paint, #7311 no Seattle number with Chicago paint, #2018 was our #7312 with Chicago paint, both #7313 and #7314 had no Seattle numbers with Chicago paint, #2083 was our #7315 with Chicago paint, #2079 was our #7316 with Chicago paint, #7317 no Seattle number with Seattle paint, #2190 was our #7318 with Seattle paint, #2114 was our #7319 with Seattle paint, #2112 was our #7320 with Chicago paint, #2076 was our #7321 with Chicago paint, #2096 was our #7322 with Seattle paint, #2088 was our #7323 with Chicago paint, #7324 no Seattle number with Chicago paint, #2156 was our #7325 with Chicago paint, #2001 was our #7326 with Chicago paint, #2117 was our #7327 with Chicago paint, #7328 no Seattle number with Chicago paint, #2075 was our #7329 with Chicago paint, #2134 was our #7330 with Chicago paint, #7331 no Seattle number with Chicago paint, #2070 was our #7332 with Seattle paint, #2137 was our #7333 with Seattle paint, #2179 was our #7334 with Chicago paint, #2141 was our #7335 with Seattle paint, #2039 was our #7336 with Seattle paint, #2086 was our #7337 with Seattle paint, #2154 was our #7338 with Seattle paint, #2095 was our #7339 with Seattle paint, #2191 was our #7340 with Chicago paint, #2053 was our #7341 with Seattle paint, #7342 no Seattle number with Chicago paint, #2060 was our #7343 with Seattle paint, #2037 was our #7344 with Chicago paint, #2145 was our #7345 with Seattle paint, #2078 was our #7346 with Chicago paint, #2201 was our #7347 with Chicago paint, #2064 was our #7348 with Seattle paint, #2080 was our #7349 with Chicago paint, #2019 was our #7350 with Chicago paint, #2054 was our #7351 with Seattle paint, #2115 was our #7352 with Seattle paint, #2188 was our #7353 with Chicago paint, #2199 was our #7354 with Chicago paint, #2142 was our #7355 with Chicago paint, #2090 was our #7356 with Chicago paint, #2066 was our #7357 with Chicago paint, #7358 no Seattle number with seattle paint, #2028 was our #7359 with Seattle paint, #2049 was our #7360 with Seattle paint, #2162 was our #7361 with Chicago paint, #7362 no Seattle number with Seattle paint, #2163 was our #7363 with Seattle paint, #2194 was our #7364 with Chicago paint, #2057 was our #7365 with Seattle paint, #2148 was our #7366 with Chicago paint, #2140 was our #7367 with Chicago paint, #2033 was our #7368 with Seattle paint, #2048 was our #7369 with Seattle paint, #2108 was our #7370 with Chicago paint, #2006 was our #7371 with Seattle paint, #2182 was our #7372 with Chicago paint, #2118 was our #7373 with Chicago paint, #2198 was our #7374 with Chicago paint, #2149 was our #7375 with Seattle paint, #2121 was our #7376 with Chicago paint, #2197 was our #7377 with Chicago paint, #2119 was our #7378 with Chicago paint, #2020 was our #7379 with Seattle paint, #7380 no Seattle number with Chicago paint, #2146 was our #7381 with Seattle paint, #2072 was our #7382 wwith Chicago paint, #7383 no Seattle number with Chicago paint, #2099 was our #7384 with Seattle paint, #2004 was our #7385 with Seattle paint, #2123 was our #7386 with Seattle paint, Both #7387 and #7388 no Seattle number with #7387 being Seattle paint and #7388 being Chicago paint, #2195 was our #7389 with Seattle paint, #2174 was our #7390 with Seattle paint, #2155 was our #7391 with Chicago paint, #2177 was our #7392 with Chicago paint, #2012 was our #7393 with Seattle paint, #2129 was our #7394 with Chicago paint, #2116 was our #7395 with Chicago paint, #2074 was our #7396 with Chicago paint, #2036 was our #7397 with Chicago paint, #2151 was our #7398 with Seattle paint, #2131 was our #7399 with Seattle paint, #2087 was our #7400 with Seattle paint, #2147 was our #7401 with Chicago paint, #2160 was our #7402 with Chicago paint, #2071 was our #7403 with Chicago paint, #2196 was our #7404 with Chicago paint, #2164 was our #7405 with Chicago paint, #2103 was our #7406 with Chicago paint, #7407 no Seattle number with Seattle paint, #2084 was our #7408 with Chicago paint, #2091 was our #7409 with Seattle paint, #2014 was our #7410 with Seattle paint, #2077 was our #7411 with Chicago paint, #2022 was our #7412 with Chicago paint, and #2038 was our #7413 with Seattle paint.

[RIPTA42]

Thanks!

[Anonymous Guy]

That's quite a wealth of information. Thanks!

[andrethebusman]

1. Some were still flipping, others were frozen in various positions, but none were readable. Trying to use lower case letters on some didn't help.
   
2. Some were repainted in the CTA white blue and red scheme, others remained brown and yellow. I don't recall any other scheme.
   
3. The sale was supposedly limited to one Seattle series (see the description in the Buses Section, and is indicated in some of the pictures and my personal observation from the Howard L platform, the original numbers remained on the roof). The Seattle buses were supposedly better than the CTA 7100 series buses that they replaced, most of which were unusable when the Seattle ones were received. The reason supposedly was that Seattle had less severe winters. However, some soon had engine fires, and they looked pretty beat up by the time they had any service in Chicago. For instance, I rode one where the driver had to cycle the lift several times before it stowed. I can't speak whether they were better than the subsequent NABIs; a North Park or 103rd driver could do that.
   

Seattle buses were bought because they had lifts more than any other reason. They were from Seattle's 2000-2201 series. There were some green ones here, but any NOT in yellow/brown got repainted in CTA colors while yellow/brown ones stayed that way.

Andre

[andrethebusman]

Here is my former Seattle numbers list. Some things to note. Chicago paint is a red/white/blue livery and Seattle paint is the yellow/white painted buses. (Seattle livery with CTA logos put on it.) In cases of the words "no Seattle number" that just means the roof was painted over. Okay, #2133 was our #7300 with Chicago paint, #7301 no Seattle number Chicago paint, #2106 was our #7302 with Chicago paint, #2085 was our #7303 with Chicago paint, #2183 was our #7304 with Chicago paint, #2081 was our #7305 with Seattle paint, #2040 was our #7306 with Chicago paint, #2175 was our #7307 with Seattle paint, #2187 was our #7308 with Chicago paint, #7309 no Seattle number with Seattle paint, #2017 was our #7310 with Chicago paint, #7311 no Seattle number with Chicago paint, #2018 was our #7312 with Chicago paint, both #7313 and #7314 had no Seattle numbers with Chicago paint, #2083 was our #7315 with Chicago paint, #2079 was our #7316 with Chicago paint, #7317 no Seattle number with Seattle paint, #2190 was our #7318 with Seattle paint, #2114 was our #7319 with Seattle paint, #2112 was our #7320 with Chicago paint, #2076 was our #7321 with Chicago paint, #2096 was our #7322 with Seattle paint, #2088 was our #7323 with Chicago paint, #7324 no Seattle number with Chicago paint, #2156 was our #7325 with Chicago paint, #2001 was our #7326 with Chicago paint, #2117 was our #7327 with Chicago paint, #7328 no Seattle number with Chicago paint, #2075 was our #7329 with Chicago paint, #2134 was our #7330 with Chicago paint, #7331 no Seattle number with Chicago paint, #2070 was our #7332 with Seattle paint, #2137 was our #7333 with Seattle paint, #2179 was our #7334 with Chicago paint, #2141 was our #7335 with Seattle paint, #2039 was our #7336 with Seattle paint, #2086 was our #7337 with Seattle paint, #2154 was our #7338 with Seattle paint, #2095 was our #7339 with Seattle paint, #2191 was our #7340 with Chicago paint, #2053 was our #7341 with Seattle paint, #7342 no Seattle number with Chicago paint, #2060 was our #7343 with Seattle paint, #2037 was our #7344 with Chicago paint, #2145 was our #7345 with Seattle paint, #2078 was our #7346 with Chicago paint, #2201 was our #7347 with Chicago paint, #2064 was our #7348 with Seattle paint, #2080 was our #7349 with Chicago paint, #2019 was our #7350 with Chicago paint, #2054 was our #7351 with Seattle paint, #2115 was our #7352 with Seattle paint, #2188 was our #7353 with Chicago paint, #2199 was our #7354 with Chicago paint, #2142 was our #7355 with Chicago paint, #2090 was our #7356 with Chicago paint, #2066 was our #7357 with Chicago paint, #7358 no Seattle number with seattle paint, #2028 was our #7359 with Seattle paint, #2049 was our #7360 with Seattle paint, #2162 was our #7361 with Chicago paint, #7362 no Seattle number with Seattle paint, #2163 was our #7363 with Seattle paint, #2194 was our #7364 with Chicago paint, #2057 was our #7365 with Seattle paint, #2148 was our #7366 with Chicago paint, #2140 was our #7367 with Chicago paint, #2033 was our #7368 with Seattle paint, #2048 was our #7369 with Seattle paint, #2108 was our #7370 with Chicago paint, #2006 was our #7371 with Seattle paint, #2182 was our #7372 with Chicago paint, #2118 was our #7373 with Chicago paint, #2198 was our #7374 with Chicago paint, #2149 was our #7375 with Seattle paint, #2121 was our #7376 with Chicago paint, #2197 was our #7377 with Chicago paint, #2119 was our #7378 with Chicago paint, #2020 was our #7379 with Seattle paint, #7380 no Seattle number with Chicago paint, #2146 was our #7381 with Seattle paint, #2072 was our #7382 wwith Chicago paint, #7383 no Seattle number with Chicago paint, #2099 was our #7384 with Seattle paint, #2004 was our #7385 with Seattle paint, #2123 was our #7386 with Seattle paint, Both #7387 and #7388 no Seattle number with #7387 being Seattle paint and #7388 being Chicago paint, #2195 was our #7389 with Seattle paint, #2174 was our #7390 with Seattle paint, #2155 was our #7391 with Chicago paint, #2177 was our #7392 with Chicago paint, #2012 was our #7393 with Seattle paint, #2129 was our #7394 with Chicago paint, #2116 was our #7395 with Chicago paint, #2074 was our #7396 with Chicago paint, #2036 was our #7397 with Chicago paint, #2151 was our #7398 with Seattle paint, #2131 was our #7399 with Seattle paint, #2087 was our #7400 with Seattle paint, #2147 was our #7401 with Chicago paint, #2160 was our #7402 with Chicago paint, #2071 was our #7403 with Chicago paint, #2196 was our #7404 with Chicago paint, #2164 was our #7405 with Chicago paint, #2103 was our #7406 with Chicago paint, #7407 no Seattle number with Seattle paint, #2084 was our #7408 with Chicago paint, #2091 was our #7409 with Seattle paint, #2014 was our #7410 with Seattle paint, #2077 was our #7411 with Chicago paint, #2022 was our #7412 with Chicago paint, and #2038 was our #7413 with Seattle paint.

7301-2172

7309-2082

7311-2157

7313-2200

7314-2153

7317-2068

7324-2059

7328-2135

7331-2094

7342-2169

7358-2050

7362-2026

7380-2185

7373-2107

7387-2052

7388-2113

7407-2189

Andre

[Busjack]

Seattle buses were bought because they had lifts more than any other reason.

No, the main reason was that most of the 7100s were off the road by the time the Seattle deal was made. While several of the routes having 7300s were then listed as accessible, I previously noted problems with the lifts. Basically, the 7300s were here only as a stop gap until the 7500s.

[andrethebusman]

No, the main reason was that most of the 7100s were off the road by the time the Seattle deal was made. While several of the routes having 7300s were then listed as accessible, I previously noted problems with the lifts. Basically, the 7300s were here only as a stop gap until the 7500s.

Only rode the Seattles a few times, and the ones I rode sure seemed worn out and raggedy inside. But then, the 7100's were probably in much worse mechanical shape, especially the transmissions. I remember many being locked in low and getting overheated to the point of starting to smell on #147 trips.

Andre

[Anonymous Guy]

Kinda redundant after all of the information posted, but from Busdude.com:

In 1982 METRO purchased 201 MAN SG-310 articulated coaches. These coaches are very similar to the 1400 series, except for having Wheelchair lifts, electronic destination signs and a lowered top speed. All of these coaches have been retired, replaced by New Flyer D60HF's. After their retirement in 1999 and 2000, 114 coaches were sold to the Chicago Transit Authority to replace their MAN Artics which were rusted out. These coaches were renumbered into the 7300-7413 and many ran around Chicago in Seattle Metro colors with CTA logos applied to them. They were ran until 2003 when they were finally withdrawn from service.

Only rode the Seattles a few times, and the ones I rode sure seemed worn out and raggedy inside.

Especially the seating in the back of the trailer. Vandals around these parts love carving their logos into the windows, putting small cuts into the seating, and marking things up with permanent markers. Unfortunately, the Seattle DE60LF/D60LFs are starting to show those same marks.

[BusHunter]

7301-2172

7309-2082

7311-2157

7313-2200

7314-2153

7317-2068

7324-2059

7328-2135

7331-2094

7342-2169

7358-2050

7362-2026

7380-2185

7373-2107

7387-2052

7388-2113

7407-2189

Andre

Beautiful!! Now we have all the former numbers. Thanks alot Andre!! I thought I'd never be able to complete that list. Welcome to our forum.

[Busjack]

And apparently putting two plus two together and getting five, 2113 to 7388 which BusHunter said was in CTA colors. Maybe that explains why certain ones were brown and yellow and others white--some got repainted twice, and others not at all.

[BusHunter]

And apparently putting two plus two together and getting five, 2113 to 7388 which BusHunter said was in CTA colors. Maybe that explains why certain ones were brown and yellow and others white--some got repainted twice, and others not at all.

I hope I'm not starting up a war with the Seattle people, but CTA did repaint #7388 to CTA livery. Seen the bus hundreds of times. Also what's this on two Seattle schemes here. I only saw one Seattle scheme. What are you talking about?

[Busjack]

I hope I'm not starting up a war with the Seattle people, but CTA did repaint #7388 to CTA livery. Seen the bus hundreds of times. Also what's this on two Seattle schemes here. I only saw one Seattle scheme. What are you talking about?

The picture at the head of this thread where 2113 is in the current Seattle scheme, not the yellow and brown one.

[BusHunter]

The picture at the head of this thread where 2113 is in the current Seattle scheme, not the yellow and brown one.

So Busjack, let me get this straight, you say that #2113 came here was never repainted and was in operation in Chicago as a blue and yellow colored bus. Let me assure you this is not so. That picture was taken in Seattle as a memorial bus for a slain operator. It is a bit controversial however, that CTA would repaint this bus like they don't care about what happened in Seattle or they were trying to cover it up. It's kind of insulting to the operator's family.

[Busjack]

So Busjack, let me get this straight, you say that #2113 came here was never repainted and was in operation in Chicago as a blue and yellow colored bus. Let me assure you this is not so. That picture was taken in Seattle as a memorial bus for a slain operator. It is a bit controversial however, that CTA would repaint this bus like they don't care about what happened in Seattle or they were trying to cover it up. It's kind of insulting to the operator's family.

No, I never said that. I said that in 1998, it was a green and yellow bus, but implied that by 2003 it was a white bus, by saying a few posts above that apparently some buses were repainted twice, while others (the brown ones) were not repainted at all. That doesn't mean it was never green and yellow.

Maybe the problem is your definition of "here." I did say that I didn't seen any buses as pictured on the streets of Chicago. I took "here" as in this topic. I guess you meant "here" as on Chicago streets.

Also, the mostly likely reason it was repainted a second time is that Seattle didn't want a bus with its current livery elsewhere, but didn't care about the old one. If I were betting, Seattle, not Chicago, painted the bus white, and CTA added the striping and decals. I can't prove that, but that is more likely than other speculation.

[BusHunter]

No, I never said that. I said that in 1998, it was a green and yellow bus, but implied that by 2003 it was a white bus, by saying a few posts above that apparently some buses were repainted twice, while others (the brown ones) were not repainted at all. That doesn't mean it was never green and yellow.

Maybe the problem is your definition of "here." I did say that I didn't seen any buses as pictured on the streets of Chicago. I took "here" as in this topic. I guess you meant "here" as on Chicago streets.

Also, the mostly likely reason it was repainted a second time is that Seattle didn't want a bus with its current livery elsewhere, but didn't care about the old one. If I were betting, Seattle, not Chicago, painted the bus white, and CTA added the striping and decals. I can't prove that, but that is more likely than other speculation.

Why would Seattle paint a bus white for Chicago? King county metro could care less what the buses will do once they leave them. The repainting is purely Chicago's issue. I don't know what to say about your post (the "a few posts above" one) By saying that 2 plus 2 equals 5 your implying that I'm wrong. Am I? what's wrong with it? I don't get your later post saying that you didn't say that. You agree with me now? More questions than answers. Also why would you paint a bus twice? CTA obvouisly doesn't know what happened in Seattle ( or don't want to know) So they wouldn't paint the bus twice. Seattle wouldn't paint the bus twice. Why? there getting rid of it in 2001. There's no purpose.