Service Reduction to 115th/Keeler

[jajuan]

I was just looking at a CTA Customer Alert dated yesterday (3/25) stating that all bus service southbound on the 53A/53Altd would end at Pulaski/111th and no longer operate to 115th Keeler effective 3/24. So I checked the newest CTA map and it showed that not only does the South Pulaski stop going there but the 52A is shown as ending at 115th/Springfield instead of 115th/Keeler. For those of you who live in the area, is Marist High School closing or something? I can't see CTA just cutting back service like that.

Also not only is the change effective the day before the notice was posted, but the 52A isn't mentioned in the alert unless it's going to change next week. Still that's a big communications gap on the CTA's part.

[andrethebusman]

I do not believe the buses have been actually going to Marist for some time now. 52A's and 53A's have ben going to 115/Springfield ever since Marist rebuilt their driveways sometime in 2007 (or earlier??). Only reason schedules were not changed was because 52A's and 53A's were interlining. Now that 53A is at 74th and 52A still at Kedzie this will no longer happen, so why bother?

I was just looking at a CTA Customer Alert dated yesterday (3/25) stating that all bus service southbound on the 53A/53Altd would end at Pulaski/111th and no longer operate to 115th Keeler effective 3/24. So I checked the newest CTA map and it showed that not only does the South Pulaski stop going there but the 52A is shown as ending at 115th/Springfield instead of 115th/Keeler. For those of you who live in the area, is Marist High School closing or something? I can't see CTA just cutting back service like that.

Also not only is the change effective the day before the notice was posted, but the 52A isn't mentioned in the alert unless it's going to change next week. Still that's a big communications gap on the CTA's part.

[jajuan]

I do not believe the buses have been actually going to Marist for some time now. 52A's and 53A's have ben going to 115/Springfield ever since Marist rebuilt their driveways sometime in 2007 (or earlier??). Only reason schedules were not changed was because 52A's and 53A's were interlining. Now that 53A is at 74th and 52A still at Kedzie this will no longer happen, so why bother?

I see. Thanks for the explanation. BTW 52A is also 74th not Kedzie. That's 52 at Kedzie.

[westing]

I can't see CTA just cutting back service like that.

The turnaround at 115th and Springfield is very small and I can see why the CTA would like to stop the 53A from using it along with the 52A. It's a shame Marist couldn't redo their parking lot to adequately allow for the CTA buses.

Yet, I think its an oversight to eliminate service on the 53A during the school year. Many students use that bus without any other means of transportation. The CTA should have waited until June for this cut allowing families of students at Marist to make other plans for transportation. Granted, you could walk from 111th to 115th but it is quite a long walk. It is made longer by a roundabout rocky path next to the agriculture school and a segment lacking a sidewalk. Not a very desirable walk in good weather and certainly not in Chicago's.

[Archer Driver]

The reason why the 53A stop going to 115th is because marist did not want the buses in there lot and they would not provide the operators with a restroom so CTA cut service to the high school for those reasons. That was the high schools decision not to provide a turn around for the bus or a washroom so now those children have to walk to 111th or to Springfield to catch the bus CTA had no choice blame the high school for your children that have to walk for blocks in the cold.

[jajuan]

The reason why the 53A stop going to 115th is because marist did not want the buses in there lot and they would not provide the operators with a restroom so CTA cut service to the high school for those reasons. That was the high schools decision not to provide a turn around for the bus or a washroom so now those children have to walk to 111th or to Springfield to catch the bus CTA had no choice blame the high school for your children that have to walk for blocks in the cold.

Sounds like the situation with Chicago State regarding the 3, X3, 4 and X4. They no longer wanted the CTA to use their driveways as a turnaround, but at least in that situation there's other service directly out front. In regards to Marist, these kids still have to walk a few blocks to the nearest bus even with the Springfield turnaround. The three blocks from Keeler to Springfield or the four blocks from 115th to 111th may not sound like a lot in terms of the walk, but in these days of violence against teens it can make a lot of difference. Don't think some kids may be immune because of 'good' neighborhood vs. 'bad' neighborhood or private school vs. public school. That northwest suburban mall shooting or the stabbings near Andersonville on North Clark Street shows that no teen is immune to violence. This should have been worked out so those kids would still have service close by. Some matters of transit service are about more than just convenience.

[Buslover88]

In regards to Marist, these kids still have to walk a few blocks to the nearest bus even with the Springfield turnaround. The three blocks from Keeler to Springfield or the four blocks from 115th to 111th may not sound like a lot in terms of the walk, but in these days of violence against teens it can make a lot of difference. Don't think some kids may be immune because of 'good' neighborhood vs. 'bad' neighborhood or private school vs. public school. That northwest suburban mall shooting or the stabbings near Andersonville on North Clark Street shows that no teen is immune to violence. This should have been worked out so those kids would still have service close by. Some matters of transit service are about more than just convenience.

Even though I feel bad for the kids, I resent the fact that you think lots of stuff can happen in that neighborhood. Its a very good neighborhood.

[jajuan]

Even though I feel bad for the kids, I resent the fact that you think lots of stuff can happen in that neighborhood. Its a very good neighborhood.

If you take time to read thoroughly what I said, you'll see I didn't say that lots of stuff happen in that neighborhood or that it was a bad neighborhood so please don't put words in my mouth. I said that regardless of how good the neighborhood might be, no one's immune to the recent bouts of violence and service changes that may affect a high school should be evaluated with that as a consideration no matter how good the neighborhood is. Now if that suggestion offends you I'm sorry but do me the courtesy of thinking about what I said before just reacting. I'd make that same suggestion if the CTA changed service in a manner that had an impact on how you might get to school. I don't look at public transit as just a convenient way for a lot of you kids to get to school. I believe it's suppose to provide a safe way for you to get to school as well if your parents can't take you, so I stand by what I said.

[Busjack]

I guess the issue here is more CTA's demand for a loop, rather than making the children walk through questionable territory, per se. Pace's announced stance (in Waukegan) was that if someone bought enough passes (in that case the school district), it would run a bus, which would stop in front of the school. Similarly, I would be surprised if the 49s, X49s, and 152s actually pull into Lane and Gordon Tech (but I'm sure some student will have better information on that).

As far as Chicago State pulling its loop, there was a lot of complaining about having to walk to the formerly abandoned loop at 94th and Cottage.

As far as the social comment is concerned, there seems to be a lot of issues about safety on the transit system, from the shooting near Julian High to community groups saying 12 years ago that a Green Line station would have been in rival gang territory. I don't know if society's standards have gone down, or there is a need for more effective police work.

[jajuan]

I guess the issue here is more CTA's demand for a loop, rather than making the children walk through questionable territory, per se. Pace's announced stance (in Waukegan) was that if someone bought enough passes (in that case the school district), it would run a bus, which would stop in front of the school. Similarly, I would be surprised if the 49s, X49s, and 152s actually pull into Lane and Gordon Tech (but I'm sure some student will have better information on that).

As far as Chicago State pulling its loop, there was a lot of complaining about having to walk to the formerly abandoned loop at 94th and Cottage.

As far as the social comment is concerned, there seems to be a lot of issues about safety on the transit system, from the shooting near Julian High to community groups saying 12 years ago that a Green Line station would have been in rival gang territory. I don't know if society's standards have gone down, or there is a need for more effective police work.

Well actually I'm not even saying that the buses had to pull into into the school to serve it. The big issue is why scale back service because of the lack of a loop. And before any mentions amenities for the operators, I'm aware of that. Some type of compromise still could have been made for the sake of these kids, be it convenience, safety whatever. They could have at least still had school day northbound trips that start from in front of the school. Lane and Gordon Tech pretty much show you don't have to pull directly into a school lot to service the school.

As for the complaints about having to walk to the 94th/Cottage loop, I guess those people didn't want to take one of the buses running along 95th to Cottage and walk the one block north or they did and the one block was too far.

[Buslover88]

If you take time to read thoroughly what I said, you'll see I didn't say that lots of stuff happen in that neighborhood or that it was a bad neighborhood so please don't put words in my mouth. I said that regardless of how good the neighborhood might be, no one's immune to the recent bouts of violence and service changes that may affect a high school should be evaluated with that as a consideration no matter how good the neighborhood is. Now if that suggestion offends you I'm sorry but do me the courtesy of thinking about what I said before just reacting. I'd make that same suggestion if the CTA changed service in a manner that had an impact on how you might get to school. I don't look at public transit as just a convenient way for a lot of you kids to get to school. I believe it's suppose to provide a safe way for you to get to school as well if your parents can't take you, so I stand by what I said.

Well, my opinion's changed now. BTW, I don't take CTA to school, nor need to.

I would be surprised if the 49s, X49s, and 152s actually pull into Lane and Gordon Tech (but I'm sure some student will have better information on that).

Nope, they don't.

As far as the social comment is concerned, there seems to be a lot of issues about safety on the transit system, from the shooting near Julian High to community groups saying 12 years ago that a Green Line station would have been in rival gang territory. I don't know if society's standards have gone down, or there is a need for more effective police work.

I agree 100%.

Well actually I'm not even saying that the buses had to pull into into the school to serve it. The big issue is why scale back service because of the lack of a loop

Why not? They should. As for the loop, they really don't need one, they're just being babies again.

Some type of compromise still could have been made for the sake of these kids, be it convenience, safety whatever. They could have at least still had school day northbound trips that start from in front of the school.

Do you really think CTA cares? No, they don't. I do agree with you about the school trips.

[Chicago13]

Well actually I'm not even saying that the buses had to pull into into the school to serve it. The big issue is why scale back service because of the lack of a loop

Because there's no other place to turn buses around there without one.

They could have at least still had school day northbound trips that start from in front of the school. Lane and Gordon Tech pretty much show you don't have to pull directly into a school lot to service the school.

That would only cover PM trips when kids are leaving school. What about in the AM when kids are going to school? Where will the bus turn around after it ends it's trip in front of the school? It would have to deadhead all the way to Cicero, then north to 111th, then back east to Pulaski. That's an awful waste of time and fuel. Actually, the reverse would also be true in order for them to be in place northbound in front of the school to start their trips.

In the case of Lane & Gordon, it's not a problem because those schools are already on the regular route, they still get bus service in front of the school whether there's extra school trippers or not. And it's far easier for buses to get in place in both directions at those schools than it is at Marist.

[Buslover88]

That would only cover PM trips when kids are leaving school. What about in the AM when kids are going to school? Where will the bus turn around after it ends it's trip in front of the school? It would have to deadhead all the way to Cicero, then north to 111th, then back east to Pulaski. That's an awful waste of time and fuel. Actually, the reverse would also be true in order for them to be in place northbound in front of the school to start their trips.

In the case of Lane & Gordon, it's not a problem because those schools are already on the regular route, they still get bus service in front of the school whether there's extra school trippers or not. And it's far easier for buses to get in place in both directions at those schools than it is at Marist.

I have to say that I agree with Chicago13.

[jajuan]

Because there's no other place to turn buses around there without one.

That would only cover PM trips when kids are leaving school. What about in the AM when kids are going to school? Where will the bus turn around after it ends it's trip in front of the school? It would have to deadhead all the way to Cicero, then north to 111th, then back east to Pulaski. That's an awful waste of time and fuel. Actually, the reverse would also be true in order for them to be in place northbound in front of the school to start their trips.

In the case of Lane & Gordon, it's not a problem because those schools are already on the regular route, they still get bus service in front of the school whether there's extra school trippers or not. And it's far easier for buses to get in place in both directions at those schools than it is at Marist.

Ok fair assessment since you do know the area better than I do. However, there is a school trip on the 7 Harrison that serves Manley High School on the west side that deadheads down Kedzie all the way to Roosevelt to get in place to start a westbound trip from in front of the school on Sacramento near Polk Street. It's a similar distance from Harrison to Roosevelt as the deadhead from Marist to Cicero. The distance is slightly shorter. So I can see your point, but it's already being done in a similar fashion for another high school.

[Chicago13]

Ok fair assessment since you do know the area better than I do. However, there is a school trip on the 7 Harrison that serves Manley High School on the west side that deadheads down Kedzie all the way to Roosevelt to get in place to start a westbound trip from in front of the school on Sacramento near Polk Street. It's a similar distance from Harrison to Roosevelt as the deadhead from Marist to Cicero. The distance is slightly shorter. So I can see your point, but it's already being done in a similar fashion for another high school.

Not quite a similar distance. The Marist deadhead is almost 2 1/2 times longer one way From Pulaski/111th to Marist via Cicero than the Harrison one from Harrison/Kedzie to Manley via Roosevelt. Marist one is roughly 2 1/2 miles one way while Harrison is just slightly over a mile one way. The Marist deadhead is a far more expensive one for CTA to make.

[jajuan]

Not quite a similar distance. The Marist deadhead is almost 2 1/2 times longer one way From Pulaski/111th to Marist via Cicero than the Harrison one from Harrison/Kedzie to Manley via Roosevelt. Marist one is roughly 2 1/2 miles one way while Harrison is just slightly over a mile one way. The Marist deadhead is a far more expensive one for CTA to make.

The CTA is doing deadheads now that are longer. How about the AM deadhead from Kedzie to LakeShore/Irving for the 145 rush hour short run starting there along with the opposite deadhead on the same route in the PM when that route short runs to Lake Shore/Grace. There are also the deadheads from NP to downtown to get buses in place for the 135 and 136. The runs that are able to make second trips deadhead back to downtown to get back in place for those trips. That's for the PM, for AM it's the opposite. In the case of the 135 and 136 deadheads, I've observed this as late as Friday afternoon. So it may sound like a waste of money, but the CTA is already spending more on deadheads that position buses on rush hour peak direction only LSD express routes along with peak hour short runs on the 145. Compared to those deadheads, this one is still a short one.

You can basically have 53A buses that are in the vicinity in the morning when school is starting continue on to 115th to take students to school operate the deadhead you mentioned and start NB trips at 111th/Pulaski. In the PM and after completing a SB trip, a few buses deadhead from 111th/Pulaski to the front of the school, start NB trips there and once they've reached 31st/Komensky they can remain in service as SB buses back to 111th. I get that you don't like the idea, but compared to the downtown deadheads mentioned you only have the buses out of service 2 1/2 miles instead of being out of service for up to almost 8 miles (136 deadheads to get back in position for another trip).

Also I just remembered the 3 King Drive is already doing a similar distance deadhead via King, 99th, State, and 95th back to King everyday all day since the turnaround was taken away at Chicago State.

[trainman8119]

Also I just remembered the 3 King Drive is already doing a similar distance deadhead via King, 99th, State, and 95th back to King everyday all day since the turnaround was taken away at Chicago State.

I still wonder why they don't just turn that bus around at Burnside along with the Cottage Grove bus. Seems like that would be a heck of a lot shorter (what, add a couple of blocks from Chicago State) and would put the bus on CTA property during down time.

[Chicago13]

The CTA is doing deadheads now that are longer. How about the AM deadhead from Kedzie to LakeShore/Irving for the 145 rush hour short run starting there along with the opposite deadhead on the same route in the PM when that route short runs to Lake Shore/Grace. There are also the deadheads from NP to downtown to get buses in place for the 135 and 136. The runs that are able to make second trips deadhead back to downtown to get back in place for those trips. That's for the PM, for AM it's the opposite. In the case of the 135 and 136 deadheads, I've observed this as late as Friday afternoon. So it may sound like a waste of money, but the CTA is already spending more on deadheads that position buses on rush hour peak direction only LSD express routes along with peak hour short runs on the 145. Compared to those deadheads, this one is still a short one.

You can basically have 53A buses that are in the vicinity in the morning when school is starting continue on to 115th to take students to school operate the deadhead you mentioned and start NB trips at 111th/Pulaski. In the PM and after completing a SB trip, a few buses deadhead from 111th/Pulaski to the front of the school, start NB trips there and once they've reached 31st/Komensky they can remain in service as SB buses back to 111th. I get that you don't like the idea, but compared to the downtown deadheads mentioned you only have the buses out of service 2 1/2 miles instead of being out of service for up to almost 8 miles (136 deadheads to get back in position for another trip).

Also I just remembered the 3 King Drive is already doing a similar distance deadhead via King, 99th, State, and 95th back to King everyday all day since the turnaround was taken away at Chicago State.

I'm not real fond of the Kedzie deadheads either, in fact those defy logic.

[Chicago13]

I still wonder why they don't just turn that bus around at Burnside along with the Cottage Grove bus. Seems like that would be a heck of a lot shorter (what, add a couple of blocks from Chicago State) and would put the bus on CTA property during down time.

Yeah that's a good question too. From what I understand, they don't carry passengers south of 95th, so it can't be to make connections at 95th/Ryan.

[nflyer22]

I was just looking at a CTA Customer Alert dated yesterday (3/25) stating that all bus service southbound on the 53A/53Altd would end at Pulaski/111th and no longer operate to 115th Keeler effective 3/24. So I checked the newest CTA map and it showed that not only does the South Pulaski stop going there but the 52A is shown as ending at 115th/Springfield instead of 115th/Keeler. For those of you who live in the area, is Marist High School closing or something? I can't see CTA just cutting back service like that.

Also not only is the change effective the day before the notice was posted, but the 52A isn't mentioned in the alert unless it's going to change next week. Still that's a big communications gap on the CTA's part.

I bet most of you have heard of this already, but starting Monday 4/28/08 the CTA is adding back service to 115th/Springfield to 53A South Pulaski/Limited, even though the buses will display 'to 115th/Keeler'.

Effective Monday, April 28, select weekday buses operating along the #53A South Pulaski and #53AL South Pulaski Limited routes will be extended to serve the 115th/Springfield CTA bus terminal.

Buses operating to 115th/Springfield will display "to 115th/Keeler" destination signs.

[Busjack]

I bet most of you have heard of this already, but starting Monday 4/28/08 the CTA is adding back service to 115th/Springfield to 53A South Pulaski/Limited, even though the buses will display 'to 115th/Keeler'.

That was well buried among all the construction related announcements. Good eyes on your part.