New Flyers running the route 55, X55,and 67

[CircleSeven]

Now put in this context your argument makes a bit more since. If you'd made these points instead of framing your argument as 74th shouldn't have gotten anything because you think it should have stayed an all 6000 garage, you wouldn't have upset as many folks as you did. The way you framed your argument before, you were making it sound as if 74th is supposed to remain stuck with woefully aging equipment just because you're so fond of the 6000s. It was basically so 'what if these buses are old and break down a lot, as long I get to keep seeing Flx-6000s on the road.' It really came off as elitist though I don't think that's how you intended to sound.

Yes, jajuan. I mean't every word I stated. I wished it would've stayed as an all Flx-6000s Flx garage and not get the newer buses. Now it's a status quo ante since the new flyers are over there. And I can care less if 74th is the last with most equipment over 12 years old. They're buses that still 17 years of age (TMCs & Flx-5300s) that needs to be scraped, plus the old NF 5800s that need to be scrapped. So why not continue the deliveries at the Big House, 1-0-3 & The Park and not worry about 74th? They're not replacing all of the 6000s right now.

[jajuan]

Yes, jajuan. I mean't every word I stated. I wished it would've stayed as an all Flx-6000s Flx garage and not get the newer buses. Now it's a status quo ante since the new flyers are over there. And I can care less if 74th is the last with most equipment over 12 years old. They're buses that still 17 years of age (TMCs & Flx-5300s) that needs to be scraped, plus the old NF 5800s that need to be scrapped. So why not continue the deliveries at the Big House, 1-0-3 & The Park and not worry about 74th? They're not replacing all of the 6000s right now.

Well whatever floats your boat on the all 6000s front. I know there are still 1991 buses around. I'm one of the people who's been lamenting that close to 100 5300s are still around when ALL should have been gone last year. Still with close to 500 buses to still be delivered the TMCs and 5300s would still get replaced with no problem because there are less than 400 left of both models combined. Though I think it's closer to 300 at this point. The whole thing just points out the bigger issue of the CTA needs to find a way to cease running buses beyond 12 years to begin with as well as cease using garages in certain areas as dumping grounds for other garages' junk so we won't even have this issue of one garage needing new equipment badly but can't get what it needs because there are still a few hundred buses from other garages on the road close to 20 years old.

[CircleSeven]

The whole thing just points out the bigger issue of the CTA needs to find a way to cease running buses beyond 12 years to begin with as well as cease using garages in certain areas as dumping grounds for other garages' junk so we won't even have this issue of one garage needing new equipment badly but can't get what it needs because there are still a few hundred buses from other garages on the road close to 20 years old.

I agree with you on that one. Also, weren't the Nova's were suppose to get a mid-life overhaul. The last deliveries were in '02 and we haven't heard any news of that happenning. See CTA can't abide by their own standards.

Circle 7 is back with his "I don't want some neighborhoods to have ..." routine.

And this won't be the last time!

[Busjack]

I agree with you on that one. Also, weren't the Nova's were suppose to get a mid-life overhaul. The last deliveries were in '02 and we haven't heard any news of that happenning. See CTA can't abide by their own standards.

The rehabs have commenced. Someone else noted that there was a request for bids for powertrain parts. You are out of the loop in making accusations.

And this won't be the last time!

So what, we're tired of it. :mellow:

[jajuan]

The rehabs have commenced. Someone else noted that there was a request for bids for powertrain parts. You are out of the loop in making accusations.

Good to hear.

So what, we're tired of it.

Agreed. The debates and discussions are more interesting without reducing things to 'This neighborhood shouldn't get this' or 'That neighborhood shouldn't get that' without a credible reason why other than you don't want to see them get it.

[Buslover88]

I think Buslover's point about the TMCs is that the garages that do still have them aren't now in as much dire straits as 74th on having old equipment considering that the average age of their buses are now lower than 74th's since they have NFs or Novas or both along with them as well as ome NABIs. From the point of view of average bus age per garage, 74th was worse off by having all buses at around 13 years in age.

Yes, that was my point.

And I can care less if 74th is the last with most equipment over 12 years old.

How many times do I have to say that this whole recieving new buses thing isn't about where you want them? This isn't your CTA.

They're buses that still 17 years of age (TMCs & Flx-5300s) that needs to be scraped, plus the old NF 5800s that need to be scrapped. So why not continue the deliveries at the Big House, 1-0-3 & The Park and not worry about 74th? They're not replacing all of the 6000s right now.

We all know that, but 74th hasn't had any new equipment in 13 years. 13 years! Come on now, that's riducious. How would you like it if FG or Kedzie had to wait 13 years for just one new bus? No garage should have to.

As for these other garages you speak of (and jujuan pointed this out already), but these garages have Novas (77th does) and NABIs.

So what, we're tired of it.

Yes, we are getting tired of it. I'm actually starting to lose my patience with this topic because of so much hate on 74th (but I could care less if the drivers there are hated on).

The debates and discussions are more interesting without reducing things to 'This neighborhood shouldn't get this' or 'That neighborhood shouldn't get that' without a credible reason why other than you don't want to see them get it.

I think so too. Their shouldn't be anybody saying '"why is 74th getting new buses? I didn't want them to" at all. Its just flat out annoying sometimes to keep hearing that.

[BusHunter]

The rehabs have commenced. Someone else noted that there was a request for bids for powertrain parts. You are out of the loop in making accusations.

Even if there accusations based on FACT. Talk to the Chicago Tribune, that was my source. What's your source for saying the rehabs have commenced?

[Busjack]

Even if there accusations based on FACT. Talk to the Chicago Tribune, that was my source. What's your source for saying the rehabs have commenced?

The request for proposals was on transitchicago.com.

[jajuan]

Even if there accusations based on FACT. Talk to the Chicago Tribune, that was my source. What's your source for saying the rehabs have commenced?

As if the newspapers always get the facts right. Remember Ms. Redeye (the RedEye being a part of the Chicago Tribune) had to be told by a busfan that the 8 Halsted was being reassigned to Kedzie Garage when she made it a focus on what 74th was doing to combat bunching in her story on the topic days before the spring changes. Now she's at again with her annual "Worst CTA Bus Route" contest. One guy wrote in to say that 8 Halsted should again hold the title because at any given time 2-5 buses are close behind each other. And she just eggs people on into saying Halsted is still as bad as when it was at 74th by saying it looks like not much has changed since moving to Kedzie. First of all, 2 buses is bus bunching? 2? Give me a break. That sounds a heck of a lot better than the 5-6 minimum right behind each other under 74th operations.

Plus the local media's focus seems to be slanted toward always focusing on what CTA is doing wrong and not enough on what it's getting right. The way some of them tell it, CTA service is always so horrible which far from being the case. At least the SunTimes put things in perspective in terms of the increased crowds on the buses are coming from a lot more people not being able to afford driving their cars every day and now are switching to riding the bus and train to work while saving the car for trips where they have to get a lot of stuff home like trips to the grocery store.

[BusHunter]

As if the newspapers always get the facts right. Remember Ms. Redeye (the RedEye being a part of the Chicago Tribune) had to be told by a busfan that the 8 Halsted was being reassigned to Kedzie Garage when she made it a focus on what 74th was doing to combat bunching in her story on the topic days before the spring changes. Now she's at again with her annual "Worst CTA Bus Route" contest. One guy wrote in to say that 8 Halsted should again hold the title because at any given time 2-5 buses are close behind each other. And she just eggs people on into saying Halsted is still as bad as when it was at 74th by saying it looks like not much has changed since moving to Kedzie. First of all, 2 buses is bus bunching? 2? Give me a break. That sounds a heck of a lot better than the 5-6 minimum right behind each other under 74th operations.

Plus the local media's focus seems to be slanted toward always focusing on what CTA is doing wrong and not enough on what it's getting right. The way some of them tell it, CTA service is always so horrible which far from being the case. At least the SunTimes put things in perspective in terms of the increased crowds on the buses are coming from a lot more people not being able to afford driving their cars every day and now are switching to riding the bus and train to work while saving the car for trips where they have to get a lot of stuff home like trips to the grocery store.

Yes , I understand your point, but this was in the legal notices section of the paper not someone's editorial that is based on opinion like the worst route. Think about it the #64 would never win that contest. It's lucky if it has over 200 riders per day. A more scientific contest would ration the complaints down to a percentage based on the ridership of the route. Anyway it would be more believable if they said the worst route was obviously the #9. It's buses are sub par. It's service is sub par and many of it's drivers can be in a bad mood. It's very stressful for drivers and customers. Things have got better especially in the service catagory. Now the X9 speeds up the street dramatically. It's possible to travel from Irving PK. to the orange line in 30 -35 minutes. Now the street flows much better. Before I once saw 7 buses bunched together on that street going south. Now I'm lucky if I see 2. Best improvement for speed hands down. Now if they could only get their hands on some more #1000's the route would be perfect. :D

[jajuan]

Yes , I understand your point, but this was in the legal notices section of the paper not someone's editorial that is based on opinion like the worst route. Think about it the #64 would never win that contest. It's lucky if it has over 200 riders per day. A more scientific contest would ration the complaints down to a percentage based on the ridership of the route. Anyway it would be more believable if they said the worst route was obviously the #9. It's buses are sub par. It's service is sub par and many of it's drivers can be in a bad mood. It's very stressful for drivers and customers. Things have got better especially in the service catagory. Now the X9 speeds up the street dramatically. It's possible to travel from Irving PK. to the orange line in 30 -35 minutes. Now the street flows much better. Before I once saw 7 buses bunched together on that street going south. Now I'm lucky if I see 2. Best improvement for speed hands down. Now if they could only get their hands on some more #1000's the route would be perfect.

Yeah if 74th can get more new equipment it would be great. It looks like both you and Busjack were looking at similar sources when making your points. If you were looking at legal notices then it sounds like both of you were looking at info relating to CTA bus maintenance.

[BusHunter]

Yeah if 74th can get more new equipment it would be great. It looks like both you and Busjack were looking at similar sources when making your points. If you were looking at legal notices then it sounds like both of you were looking at info relating to CTA bus maintenance.

I can't seem to find Busjack's source. I wish he had posted a link. I've been all over CTA's site and can't find nothing. :unsure:

[Busjack]

I can't seem to find Busjack's source. I wish he had posted a link. I've been all over CTA's site and can't find nothing.

It was up, but apparently CTA doesn't archive its requests for proposals once the deadline date was reached. I'll guess we'll just have to wait several months for the pdf of contract awards to be updated. (Of course, they are reporting some contracts as having been made in 2009....)

While I have downloaded the occasional Pace request for proposals of interest, I'm not going to archive everything on both sites (and tip the agencies off) just to provide proof here to refute negative evidence. Sorry.

BTW, you haven't provided a link either for the negative assertion.

Yes , I understand your point, but this was in the legal notices section of the paper not someone's editorial that is based on opinion like the worst route.

I'm not sure what you mean here. Obviously, CTA wouldn't print a legal notice that it was not soliciting bids.

[BusHunter]

It was up, but apparently CTA doesn't archive its requests for proposals once the deadline date was reached. I'll guess we'll just have to wait several months for the pdf of contract awards to be updated. (Of course, they are reporting some contracts as having been made in 2009....)

While I have downloaded the occasional Pace request for proposals of interest, I'm not going to archive everything on both sites (and tip the agencies off) just to provide proof here to refute negative evidence. Sorry.

BTW, you haven't provided a link either for the negative assertion.

I'm not sure what you mean here. Obviously, CTA wouldn't print a legal notice that it was not soliciting bids.

I know that did see this in the paper. If you can't accept my words as truthful then prove me wrong. I wouldn't provide false info. I am a Busfan in case you didn't notice. I'm in search of the truth. Twisting my words to say that CTA is not soliciting bids when that's the whole object of the notice is inaccurate to say the least. I thought I was being helpful in sharing what I had learned. Maybe next time when I learn something I won't share it if I'm going to be attacked based on my statements.

[jajuan]

I know that did see this in the paper. If you can't accept my words as truthful then prove me wrong. I wouldn't provide false info. I am a Busfan in case you didn't notice. I'm in search of the truth. Twisting my words to say that CTA is not soliciting bids when that's the whole object of the notice is inaccurate to say the least. I thought I was being helpful in sharing what I had learned. Maybe next time when I learn something I won't share it if I'm going to be attacked based on my statements.

I think you misunderstood him here. You first asserted that the Nova rehabs haven't started yet. Busjack inferred from the solicitation of bids that they have or are about to start. You said you were looking at the legal notices in the newspaper and he's asking for a clarification about your statement that he highlighted because it would be odd to publish a legal notice that they're not soliciting any bids. Legal notices from them inform you of bids they're taking for different kinds of work they need done. I've never seen one to say they are not taking bids.

[Busjack]

I think you misunderstood him here. You first asserted that the Nova rehabs haven't started yet. Busjack inferred from the solicitation of bids that they have or are about to start. You said you were looking at the legal notices in the newspaper and he's asking for a clarification about your statement that he highlighted because it would be odd to publish a legal notice that they're not soliciting any bids. Legal notices from them inform you of bids they're taking for different kinds of work they need done. I've never seen one to say they are not taking bids.

Yep, that's exactly what I meant.

[BusHunter]

I think you misunderstood him here. You first asserted that the Nova rehabs haven't started yet. Busjack inferred from the solicitation of bids that they have or are about to start. You said you were looking at the legal notices in the newspaper and he's asking for a clarification about your statement that he highlighted because it would be odd to publish a legal notice that they're not soliciting any bids. Legal notices from them inform you of bids they're taking for different kinds of work they need done. I've never seen one to say they are not taking bids.

He's not the only one who's misunderstood. Since you 2 don't understand I will tell you what I read. CTA notices/Chicago transit authority. "Advertisement for bids. Sealed bids will be received for the following by CTA at the bid office - 2nd floor 567 w. Lake Chicago, Illinois 60661- 1498 until 11:00 A.M. on said date at which time all bids will be opened and said aloud. Purchase 284 powertrains for #6400 series buses" Now does that sound like they are soliciting bids or not. Where did I say they are not taking bids. Also If you trace all posts on this subject back I said "maybe" that's what the #6400 transfer was for. I didn't say for sure. Busjack took my statement and took it to the next level. I honestly believe this project is coming soon not in progress as of yet. There is a mechanical problem that needs to be addressed with the trans wearing out. Simple maintenance with possibly a rehab in the works. But if you think about it the NABI"s are going to be rehabbed within 6- 12 months. Where is all the space at south shops for all of the work. If there would be a rehab on #6400's it's not going to be a full rehab just a powertrain rehab. Maybe 6 months duration.

[Busjack]

"Advertisement for bids. Sealed bids will be received for the following by CTA at the bid office - 2nd floor 567 w. Lake Chicago, Illinois 60661- 1498 until 11:00 A.M. on said date at which time all bids will be opened and said aloud. Purchase 284 powertrains for #6400 series buses"

Thanks, you found what I read on transitchicago.com and couldn't later find.

My only conclusion was that CTA advertised for powertrains to REHAB the buses. Whether the purchase and rehab process has actually started, I don't know, but you had the proof that Circle 7's accusation the CTA was not complying with its service standards by not rehabbing the buses was false. There certainly is the intent to rehab 284 of them, which is slightly short of the number received in 2001, and now it is 2008, which is 7 years later. There may also be a question of the scope of the rehab (i.e. the 5800s got a more through one than the 4400s or some 6000s), and I don't profess knowledge about that, either. The NABIs won't be in their 7th year of service until starting about 2010, and extending into 2012 (unless you are referring to the work that should have been done on them 3 years ago).

If I got you confused with Circle 7, I apologize, although that seems to have stemmed from you appearing to adopt Circle 7's accusation with the following:

Even if there accusations based on FACT. Talk to the Chicago Tribune, that was my source. What's your source for saying the rehabs have commenced?

[jajuan]

He's not the only one who's misunderstood. Since you 2 don't understand I will tell you what I read. CTA notices/Chicago transit authority. "Advertisement for bids. Sealed bids will be received for the following by CTA at the bid office - 2nd floor 567 w. Lake Chicago, Illinois 60661- 1498 until 11:00 A.M. on said date at which time all bids will be opened and said aloud. Purchase 284 powertrains for #6400 series buses" Now does that sound like they are soliciting bids or not. Where did I say they are not taking bids. Also If you trace all posts on this subject back I said "maybe" that's what the #6400 transfer was for. I didn't say for sure. Busjack took my statement and took it to the next level. I honestly believe this project is coming soon not in progress as of yet. There is a mechanical problem that needs to be addressed with the trans wearing out. Simple maintenance with possibly a rehab in the works. But if you think about it the NABI"s are going to be rehabbed within 6- 12 months. Where is all the space at south shops for all of the work. If there would be a rehab on #6400's it's not going to be a full rehab just a powertrain rehab. Maybe 6 months duration.

That's the clarification that was being asked for given your original statement. No need to get excited or bent out of whack. Plus I never said I didn't understand what you were saying. Busjack asked for the clarification. It is possible he didn't see your post where you said maybe that's what the powertrains were for. There are a lot of posts that are and can be made to any given thread in during just one day.

[BusHunter]

Thanks, you found what I read on transitchicago.com and couldn't later find.

My only conclusion was that CTA advertised for powertrains to REHAB the buses. Whether the purchase and rehab process has actually started, I don't know, but you had the proof that Circle 7's accusation the CTA was not complying with its service standards by not rehabbing the buses was false. There certainly is the intent to rehab 284 of them, which is slightly short of the number received in 2001, and now it is 2008, which is 7 years later. There may also be a question of the scope of the rehab (i.e. the 5800s got a more through one than the 4400s or some 6000s), and I don't profess knowledge about that, either. The NABIs won't be in their 7th year of service until starting about 2010, and extending into 2012 (unless you are referring to the work that should have been done on them 3 years ago).

If I got you confused with Circle 7, I apologize, although that seems to have stemmed from you appearing to adopt Circle 7's accusation with the following:

I see what's going on here. A total misunderstanding on all sides. Busjack said in his reply to circle 7 "And someone said something about powertrains" "you are out of the loop in basing accusations" well as soon as i heard the word powertrains I thought I was being referred too. I was the one who brought up powertrains based on the info that I heard. when you followed up with "out of the loop" I thought you were referring to me. I had to defend myself and the truth. If I got excited or out of whack I'm sorry.

[jajuan]

I see what's going on here. A total misunderstanding on all sides. Busjack said in his reply to circle 7 "And someone said something about powertrains" "you are out of the loop in basing accusations" well as soon as i heard the word powertrains I thought I was being referred too. I was the one who brought up powertrains based on the info that I heard. when you followed up with "out of the loop" I thought you were referring to me. I had to defend myself and the truth. If I got excited or out of whack I'm sorry.

Cool. Now we're one big happy family again. :P

[ctaboy]

74th drivers especially the newbie ones needs to grow up and stop complaining, 74th does need Kneeling buses, 6000s doesnt kneel anymore which I am concerned. Thats why Im still not happy with them on Routes: 53A/52A and maybe 47, well at least they got some Low Floors back. Plus it will help the bus bunching like #9/63/67, because too many 6000s breaking down more than 4400.

bus number:6274,6310, and 6312 has already broken down,and I saw 6310 at South Shops (77th Garage)