Pace Wish List

[Lostinthe80s]

I have decided to make a list of Pace route improvements

1. Add evening and Sunday service to the routes that serve Waukegan that don't currently have any(561, 562, 563, 564, 569, 570, 571, 572)

2. Extend the 571 north to Winthrop Harbor

3. Extend the 213 north to Waukegan

4. Bring back the defunct 961 and run it as a fixed route and have it serve the western part of Lake County.

5. Extend the 569 north to Zion and it will serve the west side of town

6. Increase the frequency of the 570

7. Inroduce Bus rapid Transit to the Waukegan area

8. Extend the 568 to Abbott Park and other nearby office parks

9. bring back the defunct 894

please feel free to add to this list

[Guest]

I have decided to make a list of Pace route improvements

1. Add evening and Sunday service to the routes that serve Waukegan that don't currently have any(561, 562, 563, 564, 569, 570, 571, 572)

2. Extend the 571 north to Winthrop Harbor

3. Extend the 213 north to Waukegan

4. Bring back the defunct 961 and run it as a fixed route and have it serve the western part of Lake County.

5. Extend the 569 north to Zion and it will serve the west side of town

6. Increase the frequency of the 570

7. Inroduce Bus rapid Transit to the Waukegan area

8. Extend the 568 to Abbott Park and other nearby office parks

9. bring back the defunct 894

please feel free to add to this list

How heavy is ridership in those areas up north? Are there busy routes out of Pace North? Ive only ridden Route 568 one time way back when the Gillig Phantoms were in charge up there.

[Busjack]

I have decided to make a list of Pace route improvements

...

How heavy is ridership in those areas up north? Are there busy routes out of Pace North? Ive only ridden Route 568 one time way back when the Gillig Phantoms were in charge up there.

I would agree with 5750.

Also, I see no reason to extend 213 to Waukegan, since, as it is, it parallels the Metra UP North Line, and anyone from Waukegan that wants to go to, say Highland Park, can ride Metra. 961 was just a fill-in when the North Central was not a full time service, and wasn't even successful at that. I might be in favor of 894, except that it and 636 were not successful when they had CMAQ funding.

Again, I don't live up there, but when I visited, the only routes that seemed heavy enough to need a 40 footer were 565, 571, and 572. Ridership generation was hurt when the buses could no longer enter the Naval Base (resulting in 567 being killed) and Lakehurst was demolished.

Apparently you are getting transit signal priority on 565.

And the real question: Is Lake County willing to raise its sales tax again to pay for this, when it wasn't horribly receptive to the last RTA tax increase? Don't expect us in suburban Cook to pay for your wish list. We have enough waste in our neck of the woods. And, if nothing else, it seems like the places with the most congestion and potential for ridership are in the south part of the county.

[Zol87]

Please add better service to the 422 Linden CTA-Glenview-Northbrook Court by splitting it at Old Orchard into two routes. The old 422 route from Linden CTA to Old Orchard and the old 212 Glenview-Northbrook Court from Old Orchard to Northbrook Court. Also add better evening service until 10:00 in both directions.

Restore full daytime service on the 421 Wilmette Ave as well as Saturday service.

Improve sunday service on the 215 Crawford/Howard.

Improve service on the 208 Golf Road on weekends.

[MetroShadow]

What exactly was the 894? I forgot it had existed to even begin with.

And I think the only route in Lake County with enough acceptable service is the 565 and 572, perhaps the 571 as well.

[Lostinthe80s]

What exactly was the 894? I forgot it had existed to even begin with.

The 894 was an express route that ran down the tollway from Gurnee Mills serving trinity International University, Bannockburn, Deerfield and the Lake Cook road office corridor

[Busjack]

Please add better service to the 422 Linden CTA-Glenview-Northbrook Court by splitting it at Old Orchard into two routes. The old 422 route from Linden CTA to Old Orchard and the old 212 Glenview-Northbrook Court from Old Orchard to Northbrook Court. Also add better evening service until 10:00 in both directions.

Living on the far end of 422, it became somewhat unusable as a result of the 2005 restructuring when Pace decided not to compete with CTA 205, which encroached its route in Evanston. Now, you want to add another transfer to get anywhere near the L. What would be the point to that?

Maybe the solution is to make CTA run 205 to Northbrook Court? Now that they have our tax money...

I'm not advocating that, but that seems to be the only logical way this trend is heading.

And, as a reminder, I did attend the restructuring hearings. I really don't think you want to take on the elderly lady contingent up here. And also know that Pace had ridership data from the IBS that indicated that more service was not justified. We were lucky to keep what we had (such as a direct connection to Old Orchard and Glenview--the interim plan was to swap the current ends of 422 and 423, which at least would have provided a faster ride to Wilmette, but Pace would not establish a transfer point).

Improve service on the 208 Golf Road on weekends.

It has the same service (half hour) as during the weekdays. Pace has said at its restructuring hearings that it doesn't provide better service during the weekend than the week (as justification for cutting 254). Also, the Sunday service was one of those Pace was going to cut before Doomsday would have eliminated all weekend service, because it didn't have the ridership to support it. Again, be glad there is anything on Sunday.

There was Jersey Joe a couple of months ago warning that RTA would spend through the tax increase. It seems like several of you want to accelerate that trend. In this regard, I suggest again reading Principled Discussion of Transit Restructuring and not suggest "wish lists" that do not establish where the traffic would be generated.

[qwantae]

Add sunday service on few local Joliet Routes like 501, 505, 507, 831, 834. Extend evening service on 831-834 to 10pm.

Extend Evening service (7 day) to Midnight on Southwest Routes: 379, 381- more weekend frequently til midnight, 383. West Routes: 301, 307, 308, 309, 322, 330-weekend evenings +sunday. And South Routes: 350, 353 to Homewood, 357, 358, 359 + more frequently, 364.

Add Weekend service on route 554 Elgin-Schaumburg.

Extend 530 to Yorktown via Ogden thru Lisle and Highland + sunday service.

210 come back to Downtown Loop to Millenium Park.

Bring back 833 (Joliet-UPS) for Joliet students.

I do agree with Lostinthe80s: I was just at Round Lake Beach last weekend and It seems it needs a bit more frequently daily service on 570. 213- to Waukegan seem will be the longest route. But I do agree with 205 to Northbrook.

[Busjack]

Add sunday service on few local Joliet Routes like 501, 505, 507, 831, 834. Extend evening service on 831-834 to 10pm.

Extend Evening service (7 day) to Midnight on Southwest Routes: 379, 381- more weekend frequently til midnight, 383. West Routes: 301, 307, 308, 309, 322, 330-weekend evenings +sunday. And South Routes: 350, 353 to Homewood, 357, 358, 359 + more frequently, 364.

Add Weekend service on route 554 Elgin-Schaumburg.

Extend 530 to Yorktown via Ogden thru Lisle and Highland + sunday service.

210 come back to Downtown Loop to Millenium Park.

Bring back 833 (Joliet-UPS) for Joliet students.

I do agree with Lostinthe80s: I was just at Round Lake Beach last weekend and It seems it needs a bit more frequently daily service on 570. 213- to Waukegan seem will be the longest route. But I do agree with 205 to Northbrook.

I saw that I suckered someone in. I said I didn't advocate that.

As far as Joliet and Southwest, you'll get your restructuring. However, in Joliet, it will be mostly dial a ride, according to the exhibits shown at the workshops. The South Cook restructuring gets $7.5 million a year, so something will happen there.

210--There wasn't the demand for it, and Pace couldn't afford the deadhead. In fact, there is barely the demand for the 210 as it now exists. Pace tried to kill it in the 2005 restructuring until the elderly lady contingent arose.

554-The only reason that exists anymore is that Streamwood subsidizes it. There were the proposals for a 208 Evanston-Elgin route, but so far they have gone nowhere.

Now my wish list:

• Most of the suggestions are for routes that were either cut or threatened with cuts. Can any of you tell if there was a reason for that and if that reason (lack of ridership) has changed?
  
• Will any of you tell me: ARE ANY OF YOU WILLING TO PAY A 15% SALES TAX? Or am I dealing with children who only pay tax on their snacks?
  

[MVTArider]

Well I have very little knowledge of Pace route workings but improved connection between 250 and 208 at the Des Plaines Metra Station would be nice (I think that was the one). We had to wait an hour between the two since 250 was messed up on its schedule.

[Busjack]

Well I have very little knowledge of Pace route workings but improved connection between 250 and 208 at the Des Plaines Metra Station would be nice (I think that was the one). We had to wait an hour between the two since 250 was messed up on its schedule.

Finally, one that makes sense and wouldn't cost much to implement.

However, the two must have been really messed up (or it was late in the evening; after 7:15), since otherwise 208 runs every half hour and 250 every 20 to 30 minutes.

DesPlaines was made a concentration point (226 was rerouted up there), but apparently not a pulse point.

[MVTArider]

However, the two must have been really messed up (or it was late in the evening; after 7:15), since otherwise 208 runs every half hour and 250 every 20 to 30 minutes.

DesPlaines was made a concentration point (226 was rerouted up there), but apparently not a pulse point.

I think it was about 7 we got there, it was weird because the 250 was early by about 5-10 minutes when we got on at the end of the Skokie line. The other thing that was confusing was the lack of signage at Des Plaines metra. We were not sure where to wait for 208 until we asked someone who was waiting for the 250 going the other way. The guy who was also waiting at the stop said his wife ran into this problem on another line before. Apparently they sent her some free ride passes.

[Busjack]

I think it was about 7 we got there, it was weird because the 250 was early by about 5-10 minutes when we got on at the end of the Skokie line. The other thing that was confusing was the lack of signage at Des Plaines metra. We were not sure where to wait for 208 until we asked someone who was waiting for the 250 going the other way. The guy who was also waiting at the stop said his wife ran into this problem on another line before. Apparently they sent her some free ride passes.

That seems to be the problem with Pace signs, which only indicate the route number. Most of them pull into the station, but the westbound 208 is across the street. However, I would think that the westbound 250 (since you say you came from the Skokie Swift, not O'Hare) would stop at the same place.

But, at that time, the only westbound 208s would have been at 7:53 or 8:38, so, especially if 250 was running hot (which it isn't supposed to do), an hour wait is possible. At that point in the evening, you also have the problem that some westbound buses on each route go to the NW garage in Des Plaines and end service there, cutting back frequency west of that.

I would also think that Pace would have the greater incentive to coordinate 250 trips from O'Hare with 208, which is what I thought you were first writing about. Basically, though, Pace becomes somewhat of a crapshoot after 7.

[geneking7320]

How about a different Pace wish?

Route 290 appears to do good business at times so I'd wish for a few standard floor artics (with lifts of course for ADA) for the Pace Northwest garage. Obviously they wouldn't run all day just during the peak travel periods. :D

[Tcmetro]

Which bus routes run on weekends, if you guys don't mind me asking. The pace website doesn't have a frequency table for the routes. It seems tough to get around the Chicago suburbs on weekends, poor bus service coverage and 2 hour train frequencies.

[Busjack]

Which bus routes run on weekends, if you guys don't mind me asking. The pace website doesn't have a frequency table for the routes. It seems tough to get around the Chicago suburbs on weekends, poor bus service coverage and 2 hour train frequencies.

You have to pull down each schedule, using the Route Finder on the home page. However, basically you can only rely on close-in routes that connect with CTA. That would be 300s and basically 208, 215, 223, 250, 270, 290. Anything else, if it runs (including 422, 423, 470s, and some 500s), is generally on an hourly schedule. Sunday has even less service than Saturday; most outlying divisions are closed or limited to one or two routes. The announcement about New Years Day service shows the scope of Sunday service.

Also, you can pretty well eliminate anything with route numbers in the 600s and 700s (except 606 and 747).

There are, of course, the few oddballs, such as the Niles Free Bus and the UPS service.

[Lostinthe80s]

Increase the frequency of the 571 to every 30 minutes

Use articulateds on the heavily used routes in Pace north

Add Sunday and evening service to the 471, 472, 473

Run busses on the US 12 Corridor From Fox Lake to Lake Zurich

Make the 572 go into Great America again (I take the bus to work there and I HATE crossing the dangerous intersection at Washington and Milwaukee)

Run busses on the 173 Corridor from Zion to Antioch

[Busjack]

Increase the frequency of the 571 to every 30 minutes

Use articulateds on the heavily used routes in Pace north

Add Sunday and evening service to the 471, 472, 473

Run busses on the US 12 Corridor From Fox Lake to Lake Zurich

Make the 572 go into Great America again (I take the bus to work there and I HATE crossing the dangerous intersection at Washington and Milwaukee)

Run busses on the 173 Corridor from Zion to Antioch

Other than the Great America one, since you haven't provided ridership information or a funding source, isn't this just fantasy and should be treated as such? I see you added Highland Park, but HP has to subsidize the service it now has because the fare recovery doesn't meet service standards.

And as for using articulateds: Provide the ridership information that any Pace route in Lake County has ridership of 90 passengers per bus, which is the CTA service standard. I doubt that you get to 30. I might concede pace2322's contention that 352 might need them, based on 900 passengers on his day's run, but no way for Lake County.

Let's face it--most of the new routes you proposed would barely support a paratransit vehicle.

BTW, how are the RTA sales tax collections going at Great America? It sounds, from the advertising, like business is down.

[qwantae]

And as for using articulateds: Provide the ridership information that any Pace route in Lake County has ridership of 90 passengers per bus, which is the CTA service standard. I doubt that you get to 30. I might concede pace2322's contention that 352 might need them, based on 900 passengers on his day's run, but no way for Lake County.

I agree with 352/352X needs some artics, plus 381 and 383 (if proposed to Matteson).

[Busjack]

I agree with 352/352X needs some artics, plus 381 and 383 (if proposed to Matteson).

383 is questionable, unless it is established that Lincoln Mall will generate that kind of ridership.

[MetroShadow]

Make the 572 go into Great America again (I take the bus to work there and I HATE crossing the dangerous intersection at Washington and Milwaukee)

Run busses on the 173 Corridor from Zion to Antioch

Didn't 572 (or was it 570) enter Great America from the South enterance?

I'm going to take a playbook from what I wrote in my case study for my Local Government class: If you can market to the masses that "this route is going to be great," and introduce the route as marketable to reaching key destinations in Lake County. Generate enough advertisement and convince the masses (the majority, if not 99.9%) that this route is potentially workable, then the changes can be justified.

As far as the articulateds, we've discussed many a time here in the forum that there are only a few routes that really need them. Aside from the 352 (which is damn obvious, lol) and 381, Myself and several members mentioned that routes like 270, 290, 322, and even 353 need them (I think I made a jokingly suggestion that Academy uses colonial's artics to use on the 606). Again, this is based on how many people use the bus on a given day.

In fact, I had an interview for an internship in HP, and one of my objectives (more or less) was to help along with the bus service. I think the bus service is fine as it is, and there's not enough ridership for expansion past the last trips at 6:30-ish.

As much as I like expansion, there has to be enough justification to actually execute such. If I were to propose anything, it would be establishing better if not minimal wait times (meaning, adjust running times) to connect to other Pace routes (I know they do this with Metra).

[Busjack]

Didn't 572 (or was it 570) enter Great America from the South enterance?

Would have been 572, as 570 runs only west of Gurnee Mills to Fox Lake.

I'm going to take a playbook from what I wrote in my case study for my Local Government class: If you can market to the masses that "this route is going to be great," and introduce the route as marketable to reaching key destinations in Lake County. Generate enough advertisement and convince the masses (the majority, if not 99.9%) that this route is potentially workable, then the changes can be justified.

Well, they have been trying that in DuPage county (such as Naperville having free ride days). However, since you were the one that commented about 714 being cut back, apparently not all of these experiments are successful. Apparently there must be advance market research to determine if passenger demand exists (such as Pace surveying the preachers in South Cook, which seems to me to be an unconventional, but viable way of doing it).

[Tcmetro]

For those interested here is a list of all weekend routes that are operated by Pace:

Saturday and Sunday service:

208, 209, 215, 223, 250, 270, 290, 301, 303, 304, 305, 307, 308, 309, 310, 311, 313, 317, 318, 322, 332, 349, 350, 352, 353, 357, 359, 364, 366, 370, 379, 381, 383, 384, 411, 412, 413, 565, 568, 606, 905, 906

42 routes.

Saturday service ONLY:

213, 234, 272, 302, 315, 319, 320, 330, 331, 348, 354, 358, 367, 386, 422, 423, 471, 472, 473, 501, 502, 505, 507, 521, 524, 528, 529, 530, 532, 533, 535, 541, 542, 543, 544, 546, 547, 548, 549, 552, 561, 564, 571, 572, 715, 747, 801, 802, 803, 831, 834

51 routes.

------------------

93 routes on Saturdays, 42 routes on Sundays.

[Zol87]

Living on the far end of 422, it became somewhat unusable as a result of the 2005 restructuring when Pace decided not to compete with CTA 205, which encroached its route in Evanston. Now, you want to add another transfer to get anywhere near the L. What would be the point to that?

Maybe the solution is to make CTA run 205 to Northbrook Court? Now that they have our tax money...

I'm not advocating that, but that seems to be the only logical way this trend is heading.

And, as a reminder, I did attend the restructuring hearings. I really don't think you want to take on the elderly lady contingent up here. And also know that Pace had ridership data from the IBS that indicated that more service was not justified. We were lucky to keep what we had (such as a direct connection to Old Orchard and Glenview--the interim plan was to swap the current ends of 422 and 423, which at least would have provided a faster ride to Wilmette, but Pace would not establish a transfer point).

It has the same service (half hour) as during the weekdays. Pace has said at its restructuring hearings that it doesn't provide better service during the weekend than the week (as justification for cutting 254). Also, the Sunday service was one of those Pace was going to cut before Doomsday would have eliminated all weekend service, because it didn't have the ridership to support it. Again, be glad there is anything on Sunday.

There was Jersey Joe a couple of months ago warning that RTA would spend through the tax increase. It seems like several of you want to accelerate that trend. In this regard, I suggest again reading Principled Discussion of Transit Restructuring and not suggest "wish lists" that do not establish where the traffic would be generated.

I guess you're right, It would be better to just add better service in general with out restructuring routes.

On another note, wouldn't it make more sense for the 210 to terminate at Western Brown Line rather than the Berwyn CTA.

[Busjack]

I guess you're right, It would be better to just add better service in general with out restructuring routes.

I don't think I said that. In any event, who is going to pay for it? I went to the hearings with the idea that I am not going to criticize service enhancements. However, Pace has always made it clear in those and other settings that it has limited resources, and that resources used to add in one place have to be taken from others (i.e. 250 from 220, and there wasn't any 211 Evanston-NEIU as proposed by the consultants because it couldn't kill 210).

On another note, wouldn't it make more sense for the 210 to terminate at Western Brown Line rather than the Berwyn CTA.

That's where the nonrush hour ones used to.

Apparently though, after surveying, it was thought that those people who wanted to go downtown probably would transfer to the 136, 144, 146, or 147 bus once Pace pulled the option of a direct ride. The map indicates those transfer points. One would think that the destination would have been Bryn Mawr instead of Berwyn if L transfers were the main consideration.

The midday service got cut back to Lincolnwood Town Center.