High Floor Buses

[BusExpert32]

I know that this was discussed somewhere on here way back, but I'm still curious about what the actual truth is about CTA and other transit agencies purchasing high floor buses in the future? Can they really be sued? Is there some kind of law pertaining to this?

[jajuan]

I know that this was discussed somewhere on here way back, but I'm still curious about what the actual truth is about CTA and other transit agencies purchasing high floor buses in the future? Can they really be sued? Is there some kind of law pertaining to this?

This is the first I remember ever hearing this. It's astonishing if that's true.

[Buslover88]

I know that this was discussed somewhere on here way back, but I'm still curious about what the actual truth is about CTA and other transit agencies purchasing high floor buses in the future? Can they really be sued? Is there some kind of law pertaining to this?

This is the first I remember ever hearing this. It's astonishing if that's true.

This was discussed sometime in 2006, but it probably is still true.

[Busjack]

And now for the facts....

The ADA requires some sort of accessibility. Until the mid 90s, that was furnished by lifts.

Transit authorities don't like lifts because they take a lot of maintenance, and what happens if they don't work? At least with a low floor bus, the driver can flip out the ramp.

Apparently New Jersey likes the high floor bus, with the lift. Motor coaches (such as Pace 8900s and whatever is used on 855) have lifts. However, apparently very few other transit authorities want them. That was the reason why Nova unloaded the RTS; it couldn't make money with it. Apparently the same with New Flyer and Gillig.

By the same token, ADA regulations only require that destination signs have a certain minimum type size. You can still get an ADA compliant roll sign (as on the Downers Grove cutaways), but transit authorities like the LED ones better. Similarly, the regulations allow voice announcement of stops, but since the drivers don't consistently do that, the local transit authorities have installed the automated gps systems.

If you want to play lawyer (and I have recommended against that in the past), the regulations are at 49 CFR Part 38.

[BusExpert32]

So, basically, the CTA and other big transit agencies in other cities would not get sued for purchasing a high floor bus again. It just must have wheelchair accessibility and other qualities that the CTA's 4400s, 5300s, and 6000s have had.

I'm also wondering what the chances are for another high floor bus era in the CTA? What kind of bus is better to maintain overall? Are there any high floor buses for mass transit still being manufactured today?

[Tcmetro]

NABI 416 is the only HF still being made. It would be dead already if it wasn't for the 1000+ order from New Jersey Transit.

[Busjack]

NABI 416 is the only HF still being made. It would be dead already if it wasn't for the 1000+ order from New Jersey Transit.

Orion still has the Orion V on its website, although its best customer (Long Island Bus division of MTA) has now opted for the VII Next Gen.

[Tcmetro]

According to other forums, such as CPTDB and SubChat, a member talked to a representative of Orion. The last V was made earlier this year and sold to Sonoma County Transit, CA.

[MVTArider]

My main beef with low floor is the lack of seats compared to what is on the typical high floor and the narrower area in the front between the wheels. I believe that there are also people who don't like sitting down in the low part since you don't see as much compared to sitting on a high floor. I certainly understand however that with an aging population the low floor speeds boarding/deboarding times and is much more reliable for those who use mobility devices. So basically we have the low floor coming out the "winner" with fewer seats but improved boarding for the mobility challenged and the benefit of a flip out ramp instead of a lift with questionable reliability. However as loads on P.T. increase there will be a need for more seats on the buses thus giving the high floor an edge again. Maybe in the future there could be some sort of compromise, hmm...

[Busjack]

However as loads on P.T. increase there will be a need for more seats on the buses thus giving the high floor an edge again. Maybe in the future there could be some sort of compromise, hmm...

Of course, CTA's approach is the "seatless" Nova, and longitudinal seats on NF articulateds (on 4000 and the specs for the up to 900 more). So their thinking is not putting in more seats, but packing in the standees.

The question on the Dennis buses is that the Vancouver sized ones wouldn't fit under the bridges in Chicago, especially the UP-N ones at Ravenswood Ave. and the north side L, most of which have 11 foot clearance markers.

What is sort of interesting is that the U.S. collaborator is ElDorado, known more for its smaller buses (like the Pace 2600s).

[qwantae]

According to other forums, such as CPTDB and SubChat, a member talked to a representative of Orion. The last V was made earlier this year and sold to Sonoma County Transit, CA.

Bee Line in Westchester County, New York and Ride On at Washington DC Area has 2006-07 Orion Vs.

[BusHunter]

Of course, CTA's approach is the "seatless" Nova, and longitudinal seats on NF articulateds (on 4000 and the specs for the up to 900 more). So their thinking is not putting in more seats, but packing in the standees.

There are also a few NABI's floating around with seats missing. #7559 has a seat missing across from the back door. It's been missing upwards of two years. I also remember #7615 missing a seat. Oddly enough it's in the exact same location. Kind of reminds me of the old days when you would see a #3000 with missing seats.

[BusExpert32]

Millenium still has the RTS Legend on their website, so isn't that still a high floor bus in production (unless they aren't being made anymore)?

[Busjack]

Millenium still has the RTS Legend on their website, so isn't that still a high floor bus in production (unless they aren't being made anymore)?

They may have a website, but since they punted the New Jersey order (since rebid to NABI), apparently they don't have a viable business.

Besides the links in that post, see also this roster site.

[qwantae]

Millenium still has the RTS Legend on their website, so isn't that still a high floor bus in production (unless they aren't being made anymore)?

So far, Pubelo Colorado is the only city in U.S. that currently operates Millenium RTS (2006-07 model)Legend and I was told that they are great buses so far. Other than that, I haven't heard any updates on any Millenium orders since it cancelled the orders from Beaumont TX and New Jersey.

[Tcmetro]

Foxwoods Casino in Connecticut has 3 (ex-NJT Demos, IIRC). Texas A&M might have some as well.

[Busjack]

Foxwoods Casino in Connecticut has 3 (ex-NJT Demos, IIRC). Texas A&M might have some as well.

Some other forums indicated that some were delivered to NJT and rejected. Maybe you have traced where they went.

[Tcmetro]

There were pictures on BusChat awhile ago and the poster mentioned that they were the NJT demos.

[Guest]

High maintenance of lifts for high floor buses is of course the main reason CTA is not buying anymore. CTA also knows it can face lawsuits for malfunctioning lifts on in service mainline buses. Rather than deal with that Im certain CTA will not purchase HF buses for a long, long time. The era of HF buses has passed, low maintenance costs of LF buses is the better option, at least for transit agencies. I still and always will dislike the LF concept. Hopefully HF will make a comeback one day. For CTA its all about C overing T hat A...!