CTA High Hopes

[Busjack]

Here's a link on the Skokie story from the local paper there. It goes into details of the project as well as the complaints. Reading this I was wondering where were all these people at the AA meetings, being that's where a route was chosen and method of service. ... I wonder what an environmental impact study has to do with the citizen's anyway. Wouldn't that be more scientifically based. I would think the citizen's only would be involved at the AA level.

You'll note that I foresaw some of these complaints. Apparently, once the high school district learned that its property was to be appropriated, "... the Niles North principal delivered an automated phone call message to all school parents urging them to come to the meeting and express their concerns." It is much easier to coalesce around something tangible to oppose. I agree that the proper forum would have been the last AA meeting, but maybe it didn't dawn on the principal what was at stake there.

I also thought that a hearing would be required on the Environmental Impact Statement, but I was somewhat surprised that one was called before the statement was drafted.

Some of the complaints are from residents who claim to live too close to the project. (What did they do when the North Shore was passing at 60 mph?)

The last time that happened was 45 years ago, and probably either the adjoining areas were not yet developed, or if they were, the people who were living there then aren't living there now (there has been a steady migration from Skokie to Highland Park, Northbrook, and Buffalo Grove, and, frankly speaking, nursing homes).

Others are from people complaining about the multi story garage CTA wants to build at the terminal and the criminals going to Skokie Courthouse. (I wonder why they weren't concerned when they built a Skokie Courthouse? The same people are going to it now so what's the difference.)

The difference is that if the criminals are taking public transportation now, it is the 54A or 205 bus, which does not stop at the school. But maybe that explains why those two routes were extended.*

To add my points about why the Mayor is not talking straight, either: (1) no way " that ridership on the Swift is 18 percent higher than the Brown Line," and (2) if BRT is the solution (since the community booed the west of Edens alternative), why are the 54A and 97 routes so weak? Just give them a TSP lane and take care of the problem for a few hundred thousand dollars.

____________

*I'm also not sure when the Municipal Divisions became full courthouses with a Criminal Division, but that's probably beside the point.

[Busjack]

As I predicted, the Yellow Line proposal ran into flack when hitting the Environmental Impact stage, for the reasons I stated (mostly appropriation of school property). Sun-Times.

...

Also, I'm surprised that the "locally preferred alternative" was criticized by the locals (including Skokie's mayor) when the CTA said that was the "locally preferred alternative." Apparently CTA's consultants goofed when they spent a couple of years studying this.

An update in the Pioneer Press indicates that it hasn't even gotten to the environmental review stage yet, and while the locals are waiting for a "scope report," the money isn't there for the environmental impact study.

So, I guess the locals were not as late as I thought.

Note that they picked up my point "That locally preferred alternative though was not preferred by too many local people. "

[BusHunter]

An update in the Pioneer Press indicates that it hasn't even gotten to the environmental review stage yet, and while the locals are waiting for a "scope report," the money isn't there for the environmental impact study.

So, I guess the locals were not as late as I thought.

Note that they picked up my point "That locally preferred alternative though was not preferred by too many local people. "

Most likely, the residents of Skokie that oppose the plan will be further disappounted when a report does come out. It sounds to me like they oppose a rail plan altogether no matter what routing it's going to be on. They want a bus rapid transit service. In the current state the economy is in it is better for riders to have a rapid transit service that is less likely to be cut in the future versus a bus route. Probably if CTA decides to cut more bus routes for late 2010 or early 2011, they will next take some of the double service away. I can't help but wonder if that would mean a #97 only service north of the Swift now. Only time will tell.

[Zol87]

Most likely, the residents of Skokie that oppose the plan will be further disappounted when a report does come out. It sounds to me like they oppose a rail plan altogether no matter what routing it's going to be on. They want a bus rapid transit service. In the current state the economy is in it is better for riders to have a rapid transit service that is less likely to be cut in the future versus a bus route. Probably if CTA decides to cut more bus routes for late 2010 or early 2011, they will next take some of the double service away. I can't help but wonder if that would mean a #97 only service north of the Swift now. Only time will tell.

I don't think they would cut back on the 97 because it serves the areas that the Skokie Swift flies through between Howard and Dempster.

[jajuan]

I don't think they would cut back on the 97 because it serves the areas that the Skokie Swift flies through between Howard and Dempster.

This much is true. Not everyone who lives in Skokie goes straight to Dempster. So it's not so cut and dry as being simple dupication of service where people can disembark in between.

[BusHunter]

I don't think they would cut back on the 97 because it serves the areas that the Skokie Swift flies through between Howard and Dempster.

No, I mean't that they would be cutting the #54A north of the Dempster/Yellow Line as it duplicates with the #97. The #97 would be untouched. They could also cut alot of double service with Pace like the #90/#307 or the #56A/#270. Or triple or quadruple service such as the #226/#225/#85a/#85 It all depends on how bad things are going to get before they get better.

[Busjack]

No, I mean't that they would be cutting the #54A north of the Dempster/Yellow Line as it duplicates with the #97. The #97 would be untouched. They could also cut alot of double service with Pace like the #90/#307 or the #56A/#270. Or triple or quadruple service such as the #226/#225/#85a/#85 It all depends on how bad things are going to get before they get better.

At the moment, 54A doesn't entirely duplicate 97, as 54A goes to the Skokie Courthouse while 97A doesn't, unless you are contemplating another transfer at Old Orchard to 205, 208, or 422. Also, I thought that the rationale for changing 14 (Devon Cicero) to 54A was to get the city folk from Portage Park to Old Orchard. However, I agree that if the Oakton station opens, Pace could reevaluate whether 226 should feed it or Jeff Park. I did express the general tenor that if any BRT or Oakton station restructuring plan is implemented, it should be Pace and not CTA. Similarly, I had previously said that if the original idea of L to Old Orchard were ever implemented (and I doubt that I will see it), some sort of shuttle system would be needed to cover the office area along Old Orchard Road and even Old Orchard itself and some areas around Golf Road, and it appeared that only Pace or its contractors were in that type of shuttle business, certainly not CTA. As in the case of the Niles Free Bus, I don't think people are going to hoof it with their bags from Old Orchard across a couple of parking lots to a station at Niles North H.S.

With regard to 56A/270, those were coordinated since 1997, in that during weekdays, midday, 56As ran between 270s, to provide 10 minute service when 270 would only provide 20, while in the rush, 270s are not supposed to pick up/drop off local south of Devon. Update: However, looking at the current 56A schedule, 56A has been cut back to every 30 minutes leaving at :25 or :55, or 5 minutes before or after 270 at :00, :20, and :40, so some of that coordination has been lost.

[BusHunter]

The Skokie Courthouse issue would solve by just extending the #97. Every other #270 (I believe they run every 10 minutes in the rush) could run local to solve the #56a problem. As far as the yellow at Niles North HS, like I said no one (citizens or Skokie) most likely would come forward with a rail plan because they want a bus plan. If they object to this alignment how come no one recommends anything else? In a way the Old Orchard station is cleverly designed to be halfway between the Courthouse and the mall so it could serve both. I don't think the walking aspect of it is that much of an issue. No one at Midway complains do they?

[Busjack]

No one at Midway complains do they?

If, at Midway, you are talking about walking from the L station to the airport terminal, there was originally the covered bridge with a "moving walkway" in it, and then the terminal was moved across the street, and essentially to the station (although walking through the parking garage, while not in the elements, doesn't hit me as too safe).

In the Niles North station case, we're talking about walking across a half mile of parking lot, or down to Golf for stuff like Skokie What's its Current Name Hospital or the Holocaust Museum. However, by pointing out that the locals are not in favor of the L, I agree that that point is essentially moot.

I suppose that CTA could further coordinate 270 with Pace, but since the two of them have not recognized each other for the last 12 years, would tend to doubt that it would happen.* In that CTA set up such a strange schedule for the 56A, that would tend to show that they are not cooperating, although I suppose CTA could have done the really dumb thing by scheduling it at :20 and :40, thus overlapping the Pace run at :40. The 5 minute plus or minus thing seems to make the 56A midday superfluous, but I suppose somebody living in Gladstone Park could expand on that.

*Update: Not to forget that Pace designated 270 for ART (which I did forget until about 10 minutes ago), so I don't think it wants to do local work in the city.

[ChicagoNova]

Without the #54A that runs to/from Irving Park Blue Line station, how will customers be able to travel from Cicero/Montrose to Skokie Yellow Line station, Old Orchard, or Skokie Courthouse.

[Guest ctafan630]

Without the #54A that runs to/from Irving Park Blue Line station, how will customers be able to travel from Cicero/Montrose to Skokie Yellow Line station, Old Orchard, or Skokie Courthouse.

To Skokie Yellow Line Station:

Blue Line to Harlem Ave CTA station, Transfer to pace bus Route 423. Take Pace Bus Route 423 to Dempster. Transfer to Pace Bus Route 250

Option #2, Take CTA Bus Route 78 to CTA Red Line. Transfer to Red Line toward Howard. At Howard transfer to CTA Yellow Line to Dempster. At Dempster take Pace Bus Route 250

To Old Orchard/Skokie Courthouse:

Blue Line to Harlem Ave CTA station, Transfer to pace bus Route 423. Take Pace Bus Route 423 to Golf Road. Transfer to Pace Bus Route 208

[Busjack]

None of them sound that realistic.

Anyway, the BusHunter's hypotheticals had to do with if anything proposed in the Alternatives Analysis were implemented.

[Busjack]

37 minutes ago, Nitro said:

If that’s so why not prioritize the extension of the Orange & Yellow Lines as well. Who gives a fuck about what the NIMBYs say.

• Again a banality. For one thing, Skokie is not a transit desert. I live near there, You couldn't even find it on a Google Map.
• As for NIMBYs, read this topic. Part of the federally mandated Alternatives Analysis is developing a locally preferred alternative. The locals didn't want a station on high school property. End of funding opportunity.
• You seem fascinated with projects KILLED 15 YEARS AGO. Yet you criticize anyone who says anything about New York.

On 9/25/2009 at 10:32 AM, Busjack said:

As I predicted, the Yellow Line proposal ran into flack when hitting the Environmental Impact stage, for the reasons I stated (mostly appropriation of school property). Sun-Times.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if environmental concerns are are raised about the elevated portion of the Orange Line south of the rail yards.

 

Also, I'm surprised that the "locally preferred alternative" was criticized by the locals (including Skokie's mayor) when the CTA said that was the "locally preferred alternative."http://forum.chicagobus.org/uploads/default_huh.png Apparently CTA's consultants goofed when they spent a couple of years studying this.

 

[Busjack]

Not bus Vision, but related to it. Sun-Times: United Center owners planning massive $7 billion mixed-use campus around the arena. If there wasn;t justification for a Madison Pink Line station before, this would provide it.

Update: ABC7 just said that the developers said they are in talks with CTA over the station.

[renardo870]

5 hours ago, Busjack said:

Not bus Vision, but related to it. Sun-Times: United Center owners planning massive $7 billion mixed-use campus around the arena. If there wasn;t justification for a Madison Pink Line station before, this would provide it.

Update: ABC7 just said that the developers said they are in talks with CTA over the station.

Pink Line Madison/United Center Station 🚉 would definitely be an asset to bringing passengers to events at the UC and the surrounding park area.

Even though it wasn't mentioned, when CTA gets additional funding for the Forest Park rebuild and work on expansion of the IMD Station, I wonder if a Pink Line transfer station (Jackson/Van Buren) connection could be made with the Blue Line at the Paulina entrance. Doing this would require the Harrison Junction interlocking and relay house to be adjusted southward. Again just thinking out loud. 

[Busjack]

4 minutes ago, renardo870 said:

I wonder if a Pink Line transfer station (Jackson/Van Buren) connection could be made with the Blue Line at the Paulina entrance. Doing this would require the Harrison Junction interlocking and relay house to be adjusted southward. Again just thinking out loud.

A transfer point was suggested there in the 2003 or so Circle Line plan. The doubt in my mind was how tall of an elevator tower it would take from expressway level to the L. On answer might be to put the L platform around Jackson-Van Buren, and have the kind of "needing a Ventra card" as at State and Lake.