I -294 service plan?

[west towns]

anyone else see in the board meeting agenda under new items, the I-294 service plan? is this the new proposed route out for bid?

[Busjack]

An article in the Sun-Times about it. Also, according to them, the other expressway projects are on hold.

Update: Tribune story, with a bit more detail. As a picture of a bus on my favorite route on the front page.

[MetroShadow]

Not sure if this has any connection to the proposed 889 that's supposed to be starting in the fall?

[Busjack]

Not sure if this has any connection to the proposed 889 that's supposed to be starting in the fall?

The way it looks is that the 889 what was scheduled for fall is "on hold due to funding issues," according to the Sun-Times.

The RFP indicated that 889 is to be rush hour trips in the rush direction only (assuming Rosemont is the destination) and run basically on the 877 route from Harvey to the Tri State, and then to Rosemont nonstop. The Tribune article indicated that the grant for the I-294 plan was mostly for infrastructure on the Tollway (high occupancy lanes, and stops and park and rides near the oases), and run all day. The Tribune map indicates possible stops, and while the article says "Oak Brook," apparently that is at the Cermak Toll Plaza, not Oak Brook Center, where the 877 and 888 stop.

As both articles point out, the I-294 project is contingent on getting the TIGER grant, the Tollway work being done, and not until 2012.

[Busjack]

Received Moving Forward. which had about the same description of the service, but a picture of a green NABI 45C with numerous Pace logos, including in the area on the side where the advertising frame usually is.

I suppose that is what the art department came up with for a CNG bus, but you have to wonder if they are actually planning that.

It also says that the agencies will receive a response from the Feds in February.

[trainman8119]

I figure that this will be a collosial failure and thus a big waste of money.

Give it six months and Pace will say that ridership falls below minimum standards

and we will see public hearings on the demise of the route. I was open to see

what chance this all had until I heard Michael Bolton on WGN radio Thursday

morning talking about the proposal. When traffic reporter Leslie Kileling stated

that commuters have endured almost 2 years of aggrivation with the current I294

construction to add a lane and alleviate congestion only to potentially

lose it to HOV traffic, and then asked the simple question of "how many riders

to you project to attract?", he entirely sidestepped went on some politico mumbo

jumbo on how one should contact the toll authority and plans (other than building

two parking lots at oasis), and never answered the question.

I am done with this if we don't use it we lose it garbage. It is a waste of money

that could be better used if something is a losing proposition. Sounds to me from

his comment and sidestepping that they have no clue and are just on a money grab

for the sake of money grabbing.

Our politicos successfully working on the scam with our money....yea !!!!!

[Busjack]

There were the frequent comments that the HOV plan was just another way for Blago to shake down highway contractors, and thus died with him, but this shows apparently not. The "Tollway always under construction" point has also frequently been made on various comment boards, and hence that the construction is not for congestion mitigation, but political reasons (despite D. Sorrell saying that there is a need for congestion mitigation).

However, this doesn't seem to be one of the "use it or lose it" propositions as it is the kinds of scam seemingly perpetrated by Congress in transportation bills, i.e. you apply for it and maybe it will come. I put in this category the current New Starts (I am still waiting for the Red Line extension, and supposedly each is in competition with the others), TIGGER (10 times oversubscribed), High Speed Rail, and the like. Also, this seems typical of the stimulus bill, which seems, so far, only to have stimulated asphalt contractors (or as they said in upstate New York, ashphalt), and apparently only very temporarily stimulated bus assemblers. Maybe some highway construction jobs will be generated in 2011, if the grant is approved, but not worth the disruption to paying users of the Tollway. Maybe this ends up like the CTA 8/14/66/79 BRT--nowhere.

Also, as you point out, nothing has been indicated so far whether the grant includes operating, and for how long. In that Pace is apparently unable to get the 655-755-889 projects off the schneid, despite being mandated by state law, this seems to be a proper concern.

[west towns]

Let's get the facts straight:

1) The RTA legislation mandates the RTA, Pace and IDOT STUDY the I-55 corridor, it does not mention anything about implementation. This is going on from what the RTA reported last April. Shoulder lanes will be 1st phase from what was presented in the Spring.

2) Pace is still proceeding with service implementation on I-355 and I-55 (ICE funded) and I-294 (JARC funded) as they have not indicated this will not happen

3) Pace approved contract at this month's board meeting for New MCI coaches

4) Pace is out to bid to study I-355 corridor.

Sounds like they are proceeding full speed with express bus expansion.

[Busjack]

Let's get the facts straight:

1) The RTA legislation mandates the RTA, Pace and IDOT STUDY the I-55 corridor, it does not mention anything about implementation. This is going on from what the RTA reported last April. Shoulder lanes will be 1st phase from what was presented in the Spring.

2) Pace is still proceeding with service implementation on I-355 and I-55 (ICE funded) and I-294 (JARC funded) as they have not indicated this will not happen

3) Pace approved contract at this month's board meeting for New MCI coaches

4) Pace is out to bid to study I-355 corridor.

Sounds like they are proceeding full speed with express bus expansion.

Sorry, your facts aren't straight:

First, read 70 ILCS 3615/2.09(b )

The Authority and the Suburban Bus Division, in cooperation with the Illinois Department of Transportation, shall develop a bus rapid transit demonstration project on Interstate 55 located in Will, DuPage, and Cook Counties. This demonstration project shall test and refine approaches to bus rapid transit operations in the expressway or tollway shoulder or regular travel lanes and shall investigate technology options that facilitate the shared use of the transit lane and provide revenue for financing construction and operation of public transportation facilities.

Says nothing about "study." And in legal parlance, "shall" means "must."

Secondly, the IFB for the OTRs says:

AVAILABLE FUNDS

Funds are not presently available for performance under this contract. Pace's obligation for performance of this contract is contingent upon the availability of funds from which payment for contract purposes can be made. No legal liability on the part of Pace for any payment may arise for performance under this contract unless funds are made available to the Purchasing Manager for performance and until the Contractor receives a release order confirmed in writing by the Purchasing Manager.

The IFB goes on to say about the same thing two more times in addition to the three quoted above.

We discussed before how the contract for 140 CTA buses apparently was contingent. From the above language, any contract approved by the Pace Board in accordance with its Sept. 2 agenda is certainly not firm, except for the possibility that it is an enforceable "firm offer" for the sale of goods without consideration under the Uniform Commercial Code. The winning bidder is apparently bound to whatever price it proposed, but Pace isn't bound to buy anything.

Also, the Sun-Times was there and reported "express buses to ride on the shoulder of the Stevenson Expy., along with plans for buses running in regular traffic on I-290, I-355 and I-294, are on hold until Pace can find funding, according to Wilmot. Pace had hoped to have buses running along the Stevenson shoulder next spring."

I have links to the public sources on which I relied. You are wrong on your points 1 and 2. And since you claim not to have inside information, were you are the meeting in which the contract in #3 was approved, and, if so, tell us what price, and the assortment between 40 and 45 footers. Let us know now, since it undoubtedly will eventually be posted on its site.

[west towns]

On point #3 I read contract approval item in the board agenda, don't know any details beyond this but assumed voting was approval. Yes this could have been similar to the CTA.

On point #2, didn't see the Sun Times, with the new piece of info, I agree with your statement.

On point #1, was going from past memory of reading the new law and believed it revolved only around a study, perhaps I read only the first part?, again I change my position.

At least # 4 is correct.

[Busjack]

Pace said on its site that the application was on the Tollway site. Link.

Apparently a feature is that buses would go to the UPS bus terminal at 75th, and there then would be transfers to the various destinations (i.e. 5 terminals to the south, and Oak Brook and Rosemont to the north), instead of just one 889 bus.

Also, the application uses the term compobus, which I thought was a NABI trademark. On page 15 they describe the bus, which appears to be predetermined.

As far as drivers are concerned, the proposal confirms statements that after widening the Tollway to 4 lanes each way, the HOT would take back the center lane, and apparently would have overhead detectors throughout to make it a good chance that anyone who crossed into the lane would be detected and forced to pay the congestion toll. I suppose that others than I can tell if that would really mitigate congestion from 167th to Rosemont.

[PACE 834]

The only comment I have is,stated near the end of post#9 from the Sun Times article,is shoulder driving on I-55(given the amount of trash,tire treads,car parts,lumber)how would they care for that? :mellow:

[Busjack]

The only comment I have is,stated near the end of post#9 from the Sun Times article,is shoulder driving on I-55(given the amount of trash,tire treads,car parts,lumber)how would they care for that?

Other indications were that the "shoulder" was the inner one, at least east of County Line Road.

Now, whether they send the street sweeper there, I don't know.

[Busjack]

After talking to my father about the Olympics and what really drives politics in Illinois (i.e. money and contractors), I started to think that this wasn't much different--i.e. a purported way to get TIGER discretionary money and keep some construction contractors happy, while pretty much negating any benefit of the Tollway widening, and helping out a manufacturer of Hungarian buses, which the CTA says builds garbage, but also got an almost single source procurement from LA.

Maybe, if instituted, it reduces travel times from Harvey to Rosemont, but the proposal doesn't indicate any source of the operating money. I tend to doubt that it would meet the Pace recovery ratio anytime soon in the service cycle, nor that there are tax revenues sufficient to cover the increased subsidy for the other 63%. I know that there is the South Cook $7.5 million off the top, but that seems to have been converted into whatever discretionary funding Pace is not getting from the RTA's 15% of 80%.

If anyone else has a contrary view (i.e. DSorrell seemed to want to contradict my contention that Tollway construction, and especially the HOV plan, was political, in that Blago was pushing it while shaking down concrete contractors), I'd be interested in hearing it.

[Busjack]

The Pace September Board Minutes contain more ruminations about the I-294 plan.

[west towns]

If anyone else has a contrary view (i.e. DSorrell seemed to want to contradict my contention that Tollway construction, and especially the HOV plan, was political, in that Blago was pushing it while shaking down concrete contractors), I'd be interested in hearing it.

[Busjack]

I wasn't making any inference whether it was original. However, as the guilty plea of Alonzo Monk avers (at page 12), Blago's only interest was a shakedown. Hence, I am surprised that the plan is still around.

[jajuan]

I wasn't making any inference whether it was original. However, as the guilty plea of Alonzo Monk avers (at page 12), Blago's only interest was a shakedown. Hence, I am surprised that the plan is still around.

Sounds like to me that if the idea has been around before Blago latched on to it for his own political reasons, others still see some merit in it on the basis it wasn't his invention.

[Busjack]

Sounds like to me that if the idea has been around before Blago latched on to it for his own political reasons, others still see some merit in it on the basis it wasn't his invention.

Open Road Tolling wasn't his invention either (i.e. they had it in Canada before, and the prior crook George Ryan suggested it), but it didn't keep Blago from plastering his name over all the gantries. I'm sure he got something from the concrete lobby, too.

My point basically is that the Tollway Authority is claiming that after the 2008-2010 work is done, that's it for 30 years. I'm sure the concrete and engineering lobbies aren't going out of business, and this will be the third time in the decade that the Tollways will be torn up. (I'm sure some construction will be involved, even though they say they will be using the fourth lane now being constructed; you know there will be things like lanes from the center to get to the bus station at the oases.) Not that I use the Tollways when I can avoid them, since I'm not paying double to get stuck in construction.

On the other hand, the Dan Ryan was out of commission for two years, but you don't hear anybody talking about digging it up again. I-80-94 also seems to be done with construction between I-394 and Ind. 53.

[west towns]

My point basically is that the Tollway Authority is claiming that after the 2008-2010 work is done, that's it for 30 years. I'm sure the concrete and engineering lobbies aren't going out of business, and this will be the third time in the decade that the Tollways will be torn up. (I'm sure some construction will be involved, even though they say they will be using the fourth lane now being constructed; you know there will be things like lanes from the center to get to the bus station at the oases.) Not that I use the Tollways when I can avoid them, since I'm not paying double to get stuck in construction.

The point of 'managed lanes' are to utilize the existing infrastructure. The concrete folks are so busy with IDOT, county and muni roadway projects from stimuous funds they are well taken care of. (also they are warming up to the fact that they can also get in on building rail projects such as bridges, grade separations, concrete ties, station platforms etc.

The tollway plan does not call to expand the number of lanes but Manage the use of those lanes. They are correct in saying no new construction and expansion. From their proposal the use of the inner lane involves lane markings, tolling collection elements, signage. This can be conducted with lane closures I'm sure during off-peak times but not massive reconstruction.

The parking lots will be done off the facility without disrupting through traffic. Only real impact would be at the oasis where there will be construction, driveway changes, parking restrictions.

[Tcmetro]

I have some questions about this service plan.

Would it make sense to have direct buses from the south suburbs or Joliet to Schuamburg and the I-90 corridor, Des Plaines, or Lake Cook Road?

Should an express network be made for service on 290, 355, 55, 88, 90, 294 north corridors?

Would it be smarter to have buses directly from the city to suburban job centers?

It would make more sense to run buses 24 hours instead of the proposed 4 am - midnight service. Buses should run directly to O'hare to serve the airport workers.

[Busjack]

I have some questions about this service plan.

Would it make sense to have direct buses from the south suburbs or Joliet to Schuamburg and the I-90 corridor, Des Plaines, or Lake Cook Road?

Should an express network be made for service on 290, 355, 55, 88, 90, 294 north corridors?

Would it be smarter to have buses directly from the city to suburban job centers?

It would make more sense to run buses 24 hours instead of the proposed 4 am - midnight service. Buses should run directly to O'hare to serve the airport workers.

I think that the main rationale for ending at Rosemont is that one can transfer to other services (primarily 223 and 600/606) there. O'Hare workers can transfer to 332 for the cargo area, or the L to get to the terminal. While the express service implies some transferring between various branches, it seems like a lot more transferring among express buses would be needed depending on whether one is going from the five southern terminals, and instead of two northern ones, five or six northern ones. May as well just transfer to the "locals."

As far as going to Lake Cook Road, there were two CMAQ tests that failed for lack of ridership--636 from Rosemont to Lake Cook, and 894 from Gurnee (and later the now defunct Lakehurst) to Lake Cook, stopping at Ill. 60, and going local south of Ill. 22. Now, an argument could be made that one of the reasons 636 failed was that congestion was so bad that it took double the scheduled time to get to Rosemont, and that congestion might be cured once the interminable construction is completed, but apparently nobody is putting bets on that.

As far as 24 hours, it is assumed that night shift people have to be there by 12. Owl service seems justified only if the employer has odd hours, such as UPS or a hospital. However, since the express service is using the UPS transit center as a transfer point, one could argue that the UPS 390s and 890s should be cut back, and the express service substituted at 3 a.m. I don't know if that would result in a reduction of the UPS subsidy.

Express service is planned for 355 (route 655) and already (855) or soon (755) will exist for 55, based on the contract awards to Coach USA. 290 basically already has express service, in that 757 and 767 feed the Forest Park Blue Line station, and east of there, the Blue Line is in the middle of 290. 88 is mixed up with all sorts of RTA studies whether to extend the Blue Line west of Forest Park, and basically most of the bus traffic is on Pace 322, which they keep telling us will be converted to BRT.90 is intertwined with the Metra Star Line, which the RTA dubbed the locally preferred alternative (and has the 600s).

[Busjack]

After rereading TCmetro's post and my response, I also wonder whether this plan would have an effect on 877 and 888, which use I-294, but leave the Tollway to go to employment centers in the Oak Brook and Lisle areas. Originally, they were supposed to be merged as part of the South Cook restructuring, but weren't, with Pace saying that they serve different markets. However, since Homewood, Harvey, and Blue Island would be served by different branches of the express, would the parts of those routes up to Oak Brook (or the Cermak Toll Plaza) be served by the express, and a transfer required to a local bus that goes to Lisle? I'm just musing, not expecting a definite response.

[Busjack]

The Tribune, in reporting that CREATE got a TIGER grant, mentioned that the Tollway's proposal for the I-57 interchange "lost out." Since the item of interest to this group was the Tollway/Pace proposal, I finally found the DOT announcement,* and that isn't there either. So, I guess that is that for it.

__________

*Big pdf which froze my browser the first time.

[Busjack]

According to Wronski, 655 and 899 have just bit it (effective Mar. 5) and 755 is being cut back. I guess the story about "these were separate grants" didn't wash, in that they were given only 3 months to develop ridership, but didn't.

I hope that Keeshin didn't have too much invested in them. Update: 855 gets another trip out of this (Passenger Notice), so modify my prior sentence accordingly.