CTA Union Concessions ?

[busfan]

Does anyone know as of yet what kind of concessions CTA will be asking of the Unions ? When the Unions got their contracts 2 years ago the employees had to add 3% more to the pension fund, and 3% to a new Pension Health Care Trust that was created. That left the 1st 2 raises being a "wash". 2010 was the 1st year they were supposed to see a little increase. 2 years ago when CTA got the $300 mil. from Blogo, they hired more managers, gave them bonuses of anywhere between $5000 + $20,000, plus huge raises. Now CTA is asking them to take furloe days and a pay freeze. Which still keeps them way ahead of what they were making 3 years ago. Just wondering if anyone knows what they will be asking of the Unions ?

[Busjack]

Probably only Mayor Daley really knows. Rodriguez was talking about how the nonunion employees had to take furlough days and a wage freeze. If the pattern with city unions holds up, either the union employees take furlough days, or they take layoffs. The furlough days are subject to negotiation, while the layoffs can be implemented by the CTA itself (the President of Local 241 admitted as much on TV). Since CTA said there would be 1100 union layoffs, you can expect either a deal will be made to save jobs, or the layoffs will happen. There will be complaining like with the AFSCME library workers all saying "I voted for the concessions" when obviously most didn't, and then about the books not being reshelved and hours being cut. Except here the bus won't come, and there will be 280 fewer to wash.

[New Flyer]

They want the Union to agree to non paid holidays and give up their raises next year.

[cta5658]

how many employees will be left with their jobs intact if this happens?

[Busjack]

how many employees will be left with their jobs intact if this happens?

As for the official dope, the President's Report says on page 8 that there are 9,825 union employees now, and on page 19, that there are 1,067 such positions estimated to be reduced. So that leaves 8,758.

Apparently, also according to that source, the main cuts would be in changing the service standard for off peak buses from 40 to 60 passengers, meaning a 1/3 cut in frequency.

[jajuan]

It looks like the layoffs will happen this time. Of course, the union doesn't ask us as operators...they sacrifice our jobs.

Can't the operators press the issue and take that concern to the union? The whole idea of a union after all is to represent the best interests of its members, and part of that involves getting input from the members it's supposed to represent. To have a union grandstand and take a position without member imput only lends ammo to those who seek to undermine the benefits that unions bring to workers in helping said workers from being railroaded by an employer that's in a strong enough position to pull it.

[Busjack]

Can't the operators press the issue and take that concern to the union? The whole idea of a union after all is to represent the best interests of its members, and part of that involves getting imput from the members it's supposed to represent. To have a union grandstand and take a position without member imput only lends ammo to those who seek to undermine the benefits that unions bring to workers in helping said workers from being railroaded by an employer that's in a strong enough position to pull it.

I'm certainly not on the inside (nor inside Darrell Jefferson's head*), but there seem to be several factors working here:

• Jefferson already claims to have taken a vote, similar to AFSCME (in the case of the library workers).
• In the AFSCME case, it was alleged that the vote was taken after the 60 day notices went out, so those who weren't going to get laid off knew who they were. I assume that if any vote was taken, the ATU members knew where they were on the pick or seniority list.
• There are several currents on the CTA Tattler, which seem to make sense, including (1) drivers saying that they don't make enough now, and (2) it is easier on the union and management to cut the 10% who will no longer be there to complain, than to have to placate the other 90%, who certainly will.**

Basically, until the 22 out of 24(?) city unions came to the table, I was not aware of unions representing the to be unemployed, and was somewhat surprised that that many city unions did accept the furloughs. But we are certainly not in the days of the Great Depression, when, according to Lind, page 371, the ATU did support spreading the work and cutting hours so that no employee was discharged, although it also fought to have wage cuts restored.

In any event, my review indicates that the unions realize that this is not a political ploy like the late 2007 to early 2008 theater (such as Jefferson threatening a strike with Huberman standing next to him, although threatening to enjoin it), although one story indicates that while Jefferson thinks the layoff threat is real, the head of the L union (Local 308) thinks it is a bargaining ploy to get concessions.

Finally, I'm sure that if the union were not representing its members, they could take it to the Illinois Labor Relations Board.

___________

*President of ATU Local 241.

**I'm discounting the labor socialists there, such as one who claims that wages are set by the union's ability to exert its will, and just raise taxes to cover that. Maybe Government Motors and Chrysler Group subsidiary of Fiat show that that theory has its limits, even though the managements of their predecessors certainly had their hands in the demise of those companies.

[New Flyer]

Being a CTA retiree the union won't budge. If they do it opens the door for CTA to keep coming back and asking for more concessions. It happened twice the 26 years I was with them.2 straight contracts CTA was allowed to skip payments to the pension fund, by going to court and using the past practice clause.

I was also part of the first CTA layoff in 1981, everybody said CTA was bluffing. I was out of work for 8 months, when I went to the Mart to turn in my badge and ID they didn't even give you bus fare home.

[busfan]

2 years ago when CTA needed the $300 mil. to solve their problems suposidly "forever", the Unions took big concessions. They got a 5 year contract that stated they had to now be 55 years old to retire. ( before it was 26 years regardless of age). So someone starting out at 21 years old had to work till they were 55. People that got hired after 2002 are stuck with a "fixed" pension multiplier. (before you could build your pension up by working overtime). People that are hired after 2008 have to work till they are 62 ! PLUS .. a pension health care trust was formed and employees pay 3% for their retirement health care. Employees increased their pension contribution to 6% (before it was 3). Back in July CTA claimed it was paying out more for health care than it was taking in so people now have to pay $268 per month for health care for a single person. Almost $900 a month for the family plan. That is saving CTA a ton of money right now. They cannot increase the workers cost of health care due to the contract so they are "screwing" people when they retire. This January will be the 1st year in quite a few years where the employees would actually take home a little more money and now CTA claims they dont have it. If you go in to any of the garages about 4am you will see 4 mechanics working 11:30s and 4 managers in the office. The contract I believe says people hired before 2002 cannot be layed off. CTA has been wanting to subcontract out all the mechanics jobs, replace full time operators with part time operators, and hire more management. Its just CTA and Mayor Daley up to their old tricks. CTA is taking 3% out of the part time employees paychecks for the "pension Health Care Trust" fund but part timers dont contribute to the pension plan because the part timers dont get a pension! What are they doing with 3% of hundreds of employees money? Its very easy to be on the outside and say "they should take the concessions" but when you know whats going on on the inside it ticks you off. Everyone forgets that Daily raised taxes a few years back because the city was short $200 mil. right after the millenium park fiasco. He threw away over $500 mil. on that and the taxpayers bit the bullet. The reason CTA is in trouble is because they are paying out a ton of money in subcontracting work. Now they want to get rid of the workers. You cant pay workers and subcontractors, one of them have to go........

[busfan]

Can't the operators press the issue and take that concern to the union? The whole idea of a union after all is to represent the best interests of its members, and part of that involves getting imput from the members it's supposed to represent. To have a union grandstand and take a position without member imput only lends ammo to those who seek to undermine the benefits that unions bring to workers in helping said workers from being railroaded by an employer that's in a strong enough position to pull it.

From what Im hearing Jefferson has been getting tons of phone calls and at the last Union Meeting people raised hell and told him "he better not even think of opening up the contract and giving up concessions". He also mentioned that on TV the last 2 times they interviewed him. For once he is not lying.

[jajuan]

From what Im hearing Jefferson has been getting tons of phone calls and at the last Union Meeting people raised hell and told him "he better not even think of opening up the contract and giving up concessions". He also mentioned that on TV the last 2 times they interviewed him. For once he is not lying.

Ok thanks for the explanation. I wasn't saying that one way or another that the unions should take the concessions just to be clear here. I posed the question in response to cta_44499_FG's statement about the union reps taking a position without asking the operators. And as an operator he obviously is on the inside. And can we have discussions here without adding the unnecessary inflammatory political buzzwords such as 'socialist'? There's enough of that coming from the politicians in various levels of government and it never serves any constructive purpose in providing solutions.

[cta_44499_FG]

From what Im hearing Jefferson has been getting tons of phone calls and at the last Union Meeting people raised hell and told him "he better not even think of opening up the contract and giving up concessions". He also mentioned that on TV the last 2 times they interviewed him. For once he is not lying.

Of course he did....from the people that have a job still either way. What do they care if someone else gets laid off. There are still people wandering around that have been with the company 30-35 years and refuse to retire...yet they suck up all the overtime. Maybe they're the problem.

[busfan]

I do understand believe me. It would kill me to get a layoff notice. When I started with CTA the 1st few contratcs had me worried till I had enough time to be covered under the "layoff protection clause". They used to cover people that had more than 2-3 years. Now as they kept changing the date so people with 8 years can get layed off. It dont mean anything in the contratc anyway. If CTA lays off people up to 15 years off the Union would have no repercussion except to "file a grievance". It happened 2 years ago. Layoff notices were sent to Full Time Employees" 1st. The contract clearly states "no full time employee shall be layed off until all part time employees are layed off". The Union did nothing about it. There used to be around 650 Bus Servicers that cleaned and fueled buses. In the early 90's they started cutting jobs and doing a full clean of the buses at longer intervals to "keep the numbers in line". Then Huberman came along and claimed the buses were to dirty. They were down to around 450 Servicers by then. The contract states that "no job can be subcontracted that is currently being done by a 241 member". There were not enough servicers to keep up with the fleet so 241 agreed to let CTA hire 200 "2nd chance" people to clean the buses and in return the Union got an agreement saying that CTA must always maintain 480 Bus Servicers. 241 was in a position to force CTA to hire more people but they let them outsource the job. That agreement expires in July of 2010 but the Union plans to renew the agreement because they think its a great idea and locks the Servicers jobs in at that number. Problem is.... since the agreement CTA always fell short of the quota of 480 and claim that they cant fill the jobs. Like no one is looking for a job out there. When they loose a 2nd chance person they fill that job right away. Lower pay, no benefits, nothing. The Union claimes CTA cannot layoff any Bus Servicers due to the agreement. But guess what? 50 Bus Servicers got a layoff notice! No 2nd chance people got a layoff notice. An our Union plans to extend the agreement. See the problem is 241's President does what he wants. Letters were sent many times to the President of the International Headquarters and nothing is being done. People have even went to the Illinois Labor Board. No help there. No government agency or anyone will help people that are stuck with a Union that is giving them a bad deal. They dont want to interfere because the Union has "Bylaws" that are an agreement between the members and local that basically give the Union the power to do whatever they feel is in their best interest. Dont worry though. As time goes by 241 & 308 will give up concessions and no one will be layed off. Do you think that 241 will allow 700 members to be layed off and loose something like $40,000 a month in Union Dues? They want the money, they dont care if everyone is mad at them or not. Its about the money.

The bigger question is ...... how can we make CTA and Daley accountable for the money they are throwing out the window? Something needs to be done about that. Liquer taxes, candy tax, pop tax, all to help recoup the $547 mil. he threw away trying to get the olympics. Him going to copenhagen and pledging an unlimited amount of money to get the Olympics behind our backs at the taxpayers expense was the biggest slap in the face he ever gave us. Dakey is the biggest Union Buster there is! Them 500 or so city workers that got layed off were to try and recoup some money from the Olympics. He made himself look good by saying the "Unions Refused to take concessions so his hands were tied". Why ask for concessions anyway? Because you wasted money trying to get the Olympics, you wasted to much money on millenium park, or the hired truck scandel, the rented property scandel which his nephew is getting the contracts for millions more than what a private firm wanted to pay?

[Busjack]

As to characterizations, one can read the CTA Tattler oneself.

When I started with CTA the 1st few contratcs had me worried till I had enough time to be covered under the "layoff protection clause". ...People have even went to the Illinois Labor Board. No help there. No government agency or anyone will help people that are stuck with a Union that is giving them a bad deal. They dont want to interfere because the Union has "Bylaws" that are an agreement between the members and local that basically give the Union the power to do whatever they feel is in their best interest. ...

The bigger question is ...... how can we make CTA and Daley accountable for the money they are throwing out the window? Something needs to be done about that. Liquer taxes, candy tax, pop tax, all to help recoup the $547 mil. he threw away trying to get the olympics. Him going to copenhagen and pledging an unlimited amount of money to get the Olympics behind our backs at the taxpayers expense was the biggest slap in the face he ever gave us. Dakey is the biggest Union Buster there is! Them 500 or so city workers that got layed off were to try and recoup some money from the Olympics. He made himself look good by saying the "Unions Refused to take concessions so his hands were tied". Why ask for concessions anyway? Because you wasted money trying to get the Olympics, you wasted to much money on millenium park, or the hired truck scandel, the rented property scandel which his nephew is getting the contracts for millions more than what a private firm wanted to pay?

I won't comment about what's in and out of the contract, as I haven't seen it. However, many of the things mentioned should have resulted in grievances, but if the contract is that detailed, I can see a reason why others say the CTA can't be managed effectively. Of course, there are also the statements that there are still too many exempt payrollers there, too.

As far as the Illinois Labor Relations Board, they may be saying that one has to exhaust the remedy provided by the union bylaws first, but it is understandable that an agency in this state is not doing its job. It did reaffirm that Huberman was off base when he said CTA employees can't strike.

As far as what Daley is doing, some [characterization deleted, since that bothers someone] one was posting on a Tribune board to go out and elect someone else. However, my opinion is that Richard II has plopped himself into a hereditary appointment, and will leave the same way his father did. da Mare has messed up many things, the CTA being the primary one, and has outlived his usefulness. However, I neither see opposition on the horizon, nor have a vote in that matter.

In the meantime, there also seem to be political problems within the union, but I don't have a vote in that either.

[busfan]

As to characterizations, one can read the CTA Tattler oneself.

I won't comment about what's in and out of the contract, as I haven't seen it. However, many of the things mentioned should have resulted in grievances, but if the contract is that detailed, I can see a reason why others say the CTA can't be managed effectively. Of course, there are also the statements that there are still too many exempt payrollers there, too.

As far as the Illinois Labor Relations Board, they may be saying that one has to exhaust the remedy provided by the union bylaws first, but it is understandable that an agency in this state is not doing its job. It did reaffirm that Huberman was off base when he said CTA employees can't strike.

As far as what Daley is doing, some [characterization deleted, since that bothers someone] one was posting on a Tribune board to go out and elect someone else. However, my opinion is that Richard II has plopped himself into a hereditary appointment, and will leave the same way his father did. da Mare has messed up many things, the CTA being the primary one, and has outlived his usefulness. However, I neither see opposition on the horizon, nor have a vote in that matter.

In the meantime, there also seem to be political problems within the union, but I don't have a vote in that either.

Grievances are supposed to be solved in a timely manner. The contract 241 had stated that grievances will be resolved within 6 months. There are grievances that are waiting to be resolved from 3 years ago. One of the problems is the Union claims it takes between $8000 to $12,000 to have an arbitrator decide a grievance. And there is no "roe vs. wade either. If a person files a grievance and wins, another employee would have to file a grievance also. What I mean is ..... for example, A Mechanic has a job that he picks by seniority. They cannot pull him off his job and put someone else on that job. If they do it to me, I file a grievance. If I win basically nothing happens. They are just told not to do it again. Now say another Employee gets pulled off his job and someone else gets put on it. HE has to file another grievance. Winning a grievance for one employee should apply to all future situations. But it dont. According to the federal law we cannot strike. The same law that applied to NY Transit workers a few years back. They had a contract and under that contract the workers had health care. 2 years in the contract NY Transit decided they were not gonna pay for the increases in health care costs and told the employees they would have to pay. The Union went on strike since the company broke the contract. Judge Sotomayor from NY (yes your new supreme court justice) ordered the workers back to work or they would be fired. Illinois Labor Board ... A few years ago CTA eliminated the forman position and made them go back to Bus Mechanics. The contract states there can be "no reduction in pay", so they kept their pay. About $3 an hour more. The rest of the Mechanics complained that the law states "equal pay for equal work, 2 people doing the same job shall recieve equal pay". The members file a claim with them and it was thrown out with the reply of "The Illinois Labor Board chooses to not interfere with a case that involved an agreement between the company and its union". Part of the problem is the Unions Lawyers are up against CTA who has the best lawyers in the country. Our Union dont even try to enforce anything in the contract. There is a clause that is called "past practice". Whatever was done before cannot be changed unless its written in the contract basically. The Union always caves in because of the "non-interferance clause". This clause says that says "During the terms of this agreement CTA shall run the authority to the best of its ability. The Union agrees not to interfere when CTA disciplins an employee and can show just cause". That means if an employee outright breaks a rule the union cannot stop CTA from following its discipline guidelines they have. BUT ... Cta tells the Union that clause means they can run CTA however it wants, and the Union cannot tell them what to do. And the Union agrees. Im not a lawyer but I can read plain english. We can always file a grievance that never gets resolved if we want.

Anything we ever try to get resolved with the union the unions response is "our hands our tied because of the non-interferance clause. we cant tell them what to do".

[Busjack]

Two quick corrections:

• Federal labor law does not apply to the CTA. (I wrote a legal encyclopedia article about it, but saying more would indicate who I am). The Railway Labor Act does apply to Metra. Maybe in the New York one you cite, it applies to the MTA rail operations, such as the MTA LIRR. In that case, they can't strike.
• I previously mentioned that CTA workers can strike. I'll provide a link to that opinion again. Of course, they can't strike while a contract is in effect, or until a 7 step process has been completed. They certainly can leaflet.

Although this is opinion, I can assure you that for what CTA pays, they certainly don't have the best lawyers in the country, as that opinion also suggests.

[daerah]

I got two pre-pink slip notices. One was in black and white ink, that I received from the manager. And secind one, (I guess Cta wanted to make sure I got the news) lol...but anyway the second one was mailed to my home,..and its in color. I'm thinking of framing it. lol

Its not a laughing matter...unemployment is and "should" be available to us...plus...we hold CDLs...that's like a big bargaining tool when applying for other driving and commerce jobs. Plus I think, it's still a little too early to be worried about it...yes I am concerned about it...but not worried.

I have revisited the option of moving back to Los Angeles and go back to Mta (Metro)...the UTU union there has been working closely with me about that. So, it's just a waiting game I guess.

Personally though..I honestly don't think the layoffs will occur, or if it does...the number of proposed slashed union positions of 1,100 may be drastically reduced. And the fares I dont believe will raise that high...its a different day than 20 some odd years ago...people REALLY need transit now, and the governments and officials need to realize how serious this matter is. And Cta, needs to be turned upside down from the inside...perhaps you may find a few extra dollars and coins in various odd places. (e.g. clutch bags and pocket books) lol

[Busjack]

The only possible consolation is that the 60 day notices apparently were sent to twice as many as necessary, according to this S-T article, although one would hope that the later report that 2000 "notices" were sent, doesn't mean duplicates, as daerah indicates. I seem to remember that this was a CYA move by the CTA, to make sure they didn't miss notifying someone they might potentially have to let go.

However, as to all who think this is going to be another 2007, and the money is suddenly going to come through, these appear to be desperate times. According to the Budget, and more concisely in the S-T yesterday, there is a proposal to move state capital to operating. However, the fallacy of it can be illustrated by the following:

• Short of trying to sort out the legal status of any contract with NF, NF announces that it has layoffs because CTA hasn't received state capital plan bond money, and it can't start manufacturing 140 buses. Noelle Gaffney eventually confirms that.
• Now CTA wants to divert state capital money that doesn't yet exist.
• CTA also says that it will be retiring 287 buses without replacement, meaning that it doesn't need the NF buses mentioned in step 1.
• Of course, if the capital diversion were to materialize, CTA wouldn't have the money to buy the 140 (?) buses it would need to reinstate that service.

Therefore, none of this makes sense. The best that could be said is that CTA wants a 30 year loan to get out of this mess, but when phrased that way, no sane state legislator would go along. However, I just made an assumption, and this is Illinois.

[sw4400]

Its not a laughing matter...unemployment is and "should" be available to us...plus...we hold CDLs...that's like a big bargaining tool when applying for other driving and commerce jobs. Plus I think, it's still a little too early to be worried about it...yes I am concerned about it...but not worried.

daerah, I think the highlighted line was meant to look more like this(feel free to correct if I am wrong)

"unemployment is not and "should not" be available to us..."

[daerah]

daerah, I think the highlighted line was meant to look more like this(feel free to correct if I am wrong)

"unemployment is not and "should not" be available to us..."

Nope. I phrased it right. I have the understanding, that if we are laid off,...we ARE entitled to unemployment. The only exclusions I'm aware of (which there could be more, that I'm not aware of) is, you aren't entitled to unemployment benefits, if you have been discharged (fired) for attendance...(just not showing up for work, and always being late) and if you're found to be guilty in any theft-related issues, which lead to your dismissal from work.

Anything else...you can file for unemployment. (Now I've never had to file for unemployment, so I don't quite know the process, but the buzz around work is...Cta has to pay into the unemployment system, for the laid off folks)

I said "should" because...like all things considering Cta...they should be getting all this wonderful funding, and revenues and all that good stuff. But, because the economy is in the state that it's in...Cta isn't getting what it should. (I wont talk about the other reasons, as why Cta is always seemingly in financial trouble)

. . .

The unemployment system is already being stretched too thin now, just like the social security system, and other systems/services alike. And since theres is already a heightened number of unemployed folks during this time of crisis (who are also applying for unemployment). Plus having 1,100+ unemployed union workers and in conjunction with the other non-union workers who are also up for being laid off from Cta all at one time, would really put a strain on it and probably weaken it. ..I can imagine and would hate to receive a letter in the mail from unemployment saying ...

"Congratulations, you have hereby been granted to receive unemployment benefits, and will receive the amount of Bla-bla $xxx.xx every two weeks, for this x-amount of days/months, bla bla. Unfortunately, there are no available funds to compensate you during this unfortunate time, and regret this burden and incovenience, bla bla bla, Good luck and good day.

Sincerely,

Boob in a cushy chair, at the offices of unemployment"

(

[Busjack]

I guess the confusion was the daerah was referring to "unemployment compensation," not "unemployment" itself. Of course, unemployment compensation is available if it is a layoff, rather than a firing for cause.

Of course, you have to keep a record of all the job applications you made while receiving compensation, and they say that looking for a job is a full-time job.

[busfan]

Well it should be interesting. Today Local 241 President Jefferson said again "he is not taking any concessions". I guess CTA is asking for Furlow Days, Concessions to the Pension, and Pay Reduction. From what I hear CTA has gone back more than 10 years with layoff notices. I thought the new contract protected employees with more than 8 years. 241 is threatening job action if CTA goes through with their layoffs. As far as I know there have been no layoff notices given to any mamgement. Including the many new jobs that were created right after they got the $300 million 2 years ago.

[Busjack]

I see that SEPTA walked last owl. Since I see that the 9,000 some CTA unionized employees have about 14,000 shop stewards among them (if we believe what we read on this board and the CTA Tattler), they can walk too if they go through the 7 steps required by the IPLRA, as far as I am concerned. Apparently the retired ones don't have their pay or jobs on the line.

[jajuan]

Well it should be interesting. Today Local 241 President Jefferson said again "he is not taking any concessions". I guess CTA is asking for Furlow Days, Concessions to the Pension, and Pay Reduction. From what I hear CTA has gone back more than 10 years with layoff notices. I thought the new contract protected employees with more than 8 years. 241 is threatening job action if CTA goes through with their layoffs. As far as I know there have been no layoff notices given to any mamgement. Including the many new jobs that were created right after they got the $300 million 2 years ago.

CTA didn't get the full projected amounts under the funding bill because tax revenues are way down due to the condition of the economy. That's why we're pretty much back to facing fare hikes, service cuts, and employees facing layoffs yet again as far the service boards here are concerned. As far as having a strike here like in Philly, both sides better come together and figure something out before even thinking of going to point. Both sides are getting a bit ridiculous. A transit system run by officials that don't know the system they're running, a union president with credibility issues according to some he's supposed to represent, as well as an overconvoluted bureaucratic system for transit in this region that only encourages and breeds sectional infighting between city and burbs. No wonder transit is so dysfunctional so much of the time here.

[busfan]

Seems Quin is giving CTA some money but CTA plans to go ahead with the layoffs and cuts if the Unions dont give in. Thats why Daley put Rodriguez in anyway. To cut jobs, and mess with the working man. He sure will be around when election time comes telling everyone how is "for the working man" in the city. And as usual ... everyone will forget what he does and vote for him.

The managers concessions included .... 6 furlow days per year ! No Raises for 2 years.

The Unions concessions ... freeze the last 2 3% raises, 5% paycut, 6-12 furlow days, CTA not match pension contributions for the next 2 years, increase our health care contributions. (I forgot the 2 other things they are wanting also).

Law states CTA cannot have more than 3% managers to employee ratio and currently they have 10%. No layoffs for the managers though.

Sounds like a good deal to me !