CTA Union Concessions ?

[greenstreet]

I think you have some of your facts wrong. Your source may have a bias.

The managers concessions included .... 6 furlow days per year ! No Raises for 2 years.

Actually, most managers and mid to upper-level professionals/administrative employees are getting 12 furlough (unpaid) days, plus 6 unpaid holidays. Most lower level professionals and administrative employees(non-union) have to take 8 furlough days, plus the 6 unpaid holidays, for a total of 14 unpaid days.

The Unions concessions ... freeze the last 2 3% raises, 5% paycut, 6-12 furlow days, CTA not match pension contributions for the next 2 years, increase our health care contributions. (I forgot the 2 other things they are wanting also).

They are asking the unions to forgo the last two years of 3.5% pay increases. You've already received 3% increases for each of the last three years under that same contract. I'm not aware of the request to take an additional 5% pay cut (you might want to double-check that). If you do have to take 12 furlough days that would amount to about 5% - that might be the source of the confusion. The CTA is obligated to more-than match the pension contributions. That's not something the union could give back without change to the legislation, and it would affect all CTA employees, not just union. Currently, the CTA contributes 12% of your salary, you contribute 6%. Those figures are the same for both union and administrative (non-union) employees. Any needed increases in contributions would affect both groups. Increased health care contributions are proposed for both administrative and union, not just union. You might want to go back to your source on all that mis-info.

Law states CTA cannot have more than 3% managers to employee ratio and currently they have 10%. No layoffs for the managers though.

Actually, the legislation states that the CTA cannot have more than 3% "exempt" employees. The 10% figure you cited is comprised of all administrative (non-union) employees. Not all of the administrative/non-union employees are exempt. The planners, graphic artists, accounting specialists, benefits coordinators, customer service reps, purchasing buyers, legal secretaries, budget analysts, etc, are not exempt, and don't apply to that 3% cap.

Sounds like a good deal to me !

Sounds to me like someone's giving you bad info.

[busfan]

I will see if I can scan the letter that was passed out Monday from the Union source that listed all the give backs they are asking for.

[Busjack]

I'll let the two of you fight it out internally.* There was a similar debate on the CTA Tattler with similar results, although the poster there first wanted to exclude the "lawyers, accountants, etc.," who definitely are exempt.

However, this is just a talking point. It has no practical significance in that:

• Nobody is going to enforce the Metropolitan Transit Authority Act if the powers that be decide to ignore its intent. I have said that sections 19 and 27 are consistently violated. Can you find the violations indicated by this Press Release? So, Jefferson found section 28, too. All it indicates is that CTA is to be run like a business, which, according to Krambles was the original intent, but we know that it isn't.
• If the union wasn't going to negotiate then, it isn't going to negotiate now, because (1) the 80% that didn't get 60 day letters know who they are, and (2) if Quinn could come up with $160 million out of the hat to prevent fare increases, the union thinks that he can also come up with the $160 or so million needed to avoid service cuts. Quinn doesn't want to alienate the riders before an election, and sure doesn't want to alienate the unions.

This seems a scenario similar to AFSCME not taking the furloughs, but taking the layoffs. The stories about the books not being reshelved in the public libraries because of all the layoffs are dying down.

______________

*I know that if I were going to scan something, it would have been done and posted within 10 minutes of my saying so.

[busfan]

Cta Needs $300 mil. (they claim)

150 mil from Quin...

The other from union concessions as follows:

Concession Savings

1. Freeze wages in 2010 & 2011 $24,400,000 (2010) 46,850,000 (2011)

2. Furlough days 4 -12 depending on wage $8,300,000

3. Heath care changes $17,600,000

4. 5% wage reduction $38,300,000

5. Eliminate Holiday Premium, 40 hour guarentee, $2,500,000 (holiday premium), $3,500,000 (40 hour

double time, and holiday pay guarentee), $3,500,000 (double time) $6,700,000

(holiday pay)

6. Eliminate free rides for epmloyees & retirees Employees $7.3 Million Retirees $560,000

Do the math.... $150 mil. from Quinn and $155 mil. total concessions from the Unions.

[jajuan]

Cta Needs $300 mil. (they claim)

150 mil from Quin...

The other from union concessions as follows:

Concession Savings

1. Freeze wages in 2010 & 2011 $24,400,000 (2010) 46,850,000 (2011)

2. Furlough days 4 -12 depending on wage $8,300,000

3. Heath care changes $17,600,000

4. 5% wage reduction $38,300,000

5. Eliminate Holiday Premium, 40 hour guarentee, $2,500,000 (holiday premium), $3,500,000 (40 hour

double time, and holiday pay guarentee), $3,500,000 (double time) $6,700,000

(holiday pay)

6. Eliminate free rides for epmloyees & retirees Employees $7.3 Million Retirees $560,000

Do the math.... $150 mil. from Quinn and $155 mil. total concessions from the Unions.

Playing devil's advocate, what's the source material for your numbers? Are these actual numbers as given by CTA in the proposed 2010 budget or from somewhere else?

[busfan]

And the 1st 3% raises we got were as follows,

The 1st raise went to the start of the "Pension Health Care Trust" that was formed.

The 2nd Raise went to the 3% increase in the employees pension plan.

The 3rd raise was the 1st increase we saw.

All the contracts we had since 2000 never gave us a noticeable increase in take home pay. The raises were always a wash becasue of health care cost increases, etc.

Every 241 member takes home about $40 more per payday than they did back in 2002.

Arbitrators have given small increases in pay per year but always put in the contract that "CTA can increase our contribution to health care at the begining of each year if the cost of health care goes up". Naturally it went up every year. This is the 1st contract that stated they cannot increase our contribution. Employees that work for CTA that make $60,000 a year actually take home around $36,000 clear by the time they get done with taking everything out.

[busfan]

Playing devil's advocate, what's the source material for your numbers? Are these actual numbers as given by CTA in the proposed 2010 budget or from somewhere else?

That was a letter passed out by Local 241 to the members letting the employees know what CTA was asking for. CTA gave them figures to the Locals at the 1st meeting they had with them.

[jajuan]

That was a letter passed out by Local 241 to the members letting the employees know what CTA was asking for. CTA gave them figures to the Locals at the 1st meeting they had with them.

Of course someone else on the forum could easily ask how do we know that it's not union hearsay or rumor mill?

[Busjack]

That was a letter passed out by Local 241 to the members letting the employees know what CTA was asking for. CTA gave them figures to the Locals at the 1st meeting they had with them.

You said you were going to scan it. So far you haven't.

So, to repeat what jajuan said...

Also, if this is part of Darrell Jefferson's campaign to convince riders of the justness of his cause, or Richard Kelly's attempt to convince us to support increasing the gas tax, those of us on the outside really aren't interested.

[Kevin]

Cta Needs $300 mil. (they claim)

150 mil from Quin...

The other from union concessions as follows:

Concession Savings

1. Freeze wages in 2010 & 2011 $24,400,000 (2010) 46,850,000 (2011)

2. Furlough days 4 -12 depending on wage $8,300,000

3. Heath care changes $17,600,000

4. 5% wage reduction $38,300,000

5. Eliminate Holiday Premium, 40 hour guarentee, $2,500,000 (holiday premium), $3,500,000 (40 hour

double time, and holiday pay guarentee), $3,500,000 (double time) $6,700,000

(holiday pay)

6. Eliminate free rides for epmloyees & retirees Employees $7.3 Million Retirees $560,000

Do the math.... $150 mil. from Quinn and $155 mil. total concessions from the Unions.

The CTA needs about $95 million, not $155 million, to avoid service cuts for 2010. The budget shortfall is being dealt with as follows:

• $83m RTA bond (Total is $166m, but only half is being used this year.)
  
• $21m Non-union employe concessions & elimination of 100 positions
  
• $11m Various contract savings
  
• $90m Capital transfer
  
• $95m Service cuts
  

When not counting the proposed wage freeze in 2011, the numbers you listed would provide about $113 million. That's roughly $18 million more than required.

[busfan]

You said you were going to scan it. So far you haven't.

So, to repeat what jajuan said...

Also, if this is part of Darrell Jefferson's campaign to convince riders of the justness of his cause, or Richard Kelly's attempt to convince us to support increasing the gas tax, those of us on the outside really aren't interested.

What the Locals are saying is they need a long term solution. 3 Years ago when Blogo gave them $300 mil. that was supposed to solve CTA's problems for at least 10 years. 3 years later they are broke again ? CTA is looking for an excuse to downsize. Ask CTA how much they spent on Extended Warrentys this year, Subcontracting, the 2nd chance program that they spent millions of dollars on. I guess being on the outside things look different. Its all about busting the Unions. Has anyone noticed how Daley had to lay off 500 City Workers because of a budget shortfall ? All of a sudden he made a deal with Bensonville to pay them $15 mil. for the Ohare Expansion. How did that money come up out of nowhere ?

[busfan]

Here it is ....

[Busjack]

What the Locals are saying is they need a long term solution. 3 Years ago when Blogo gave them $300 mil. that was supposed to solve CTA's problems for at least 10 years. 3 years later they are broke again ?...

Blago only "gave" the CTA about $50 million in funny money is 2007, as a stop gap until a bill could be passed, to stave off Doomsday when twice threatened during that year. If you are talking about the 2008 RTA bill, to which he added free rides, Blago gave nothing--taxes were increased, in that your pension is now funded by bonds that are funded by the Real Estate Transfer Tax. Have you purchased or sold a house in Chicago lately? Neither has anyone else. That's why it didn't work.

Now Robert Kelly wants to increase taxes again, during a recession. Your garage gossip is not going to get that task done.Or maybe Kelly and Jefferson are just misleading the rank and file.

Or, maybe the problem is that shared with Pace Government Relations and Elaine Nekritz--just because the sale tax was increased by .25% and the real estate transfer tax tripled doesn't mean the expected revenues will be collected when the economy is in the terlet (as Archie Bunker used to say).

[trainman8119]

I am going to back the Unions on this one. I only hope they play hardball and don't back down, regardless of the threats. Time and time again, they have delayed contracts and when they do agree to something, they constantly look for ways to weazle out of what was agreed to. The comment made about gross vs take home looks right to me. After union dues, insurance, retirement withholdings, taxes etc, what looks like a big pay is just a fraction. Not only does this happen at CTA, but also Pace and Metra. There are inclings that the screw is about to turn at Metra. From our stand, our raises are 2% to 3% for 7 years...what the company wanted and the union leadership at the time agreed to (but was not well received by the members). Long and short of that...raise 2%...tax increases 10%, sales taxes up 1.5%, proposed income tax increase 50% and so on. I only hope the union does go out and play chicken. I hope they send the message that without drivers and operators, you can have all the managers in the world, but there won't be anything to speak of on the street. All in all, I am done having faith in the management of the service boards and the constant cries of poor. Until the pols out out and someone with some transit sense comes in (likely to never happen), this will continue to be a losing proposition. Vote the bums out...now is your chance.

(I won't even speak of simple things as wasted equipment moves that continue to occur...yet claims of money are not there...just don't get it)

[busfan]

I am going to back the Unions on this one. I only hope they play hardball and don't back down, regardless of the threats. Time and time again, they have delayed contracts and when they do agree to something, they constantly look for ways to weazle out of what was agreed to. The comment made about gross vs take home looks right to me. After union dues, insurance, retirement withholdings, taxes etc, what looks like a big pay is just a fraction. Not only does this happen at CTA, but also Pace and Metra. There are inclings that the screw is about to turn at Metra. From our stand, our raises are 2% to 3% for 7 years...what the company wanted and the union leadership at the time agreed to (but was not well received by the members). Long and short of that...raise 2%...tax increases 10%, sales taxes up 1.5%, proposed income tax increase 50% and so on. I only hope the union does go out and play chicken. I hope they send the message that without drivers and operators, you can have all the managers in the world, but there won't be anything to speak of on the street. All in all, I am done having faith in the management of the service boards and the constant cries of poor. Until the pols out out and someone with some transit sense comes in (likely to never happen), this will continue to be a losing proposition. Vote the bums out...now is your chance.

(I won't even speak of simple things as wasted equipment moves that continue to occur...yet claims of money are not there...just don't get it)

Thank You !

Someone who realizes whats going on. As of this date ... no managers got any layoff notices.

I dont think the bonds were tied into the real estate tax. A few months back there was a big wirte up about how several accounting firms warned Carole Brown about the bonds. They sold the bonds at a guarenteed 6% return on interest but CTA was only getting less than 3% on the bonds. If I can find the article online I will post it. I think it was in Crains Chicago Business. CTA was warned by 5 different accounting firms not to do it and guarentee a 6% return. But they did it anyway.

[busfan]

The Real Estate Transfer Tax was supposed to generate a small part of the $300mil. I thought it was something like $37 mil. of the 300. Here is the article.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=alwTE0Z5.1EA

March 3 (Bloomberg) -- The Chicago Transit Authority retirement plan had a $1.5 billion hole in its stash of assets in 2007. At the height of a four-year bull market, it didn’t have enough cash on hand to pay its retirees through 2013, meaning it was underfunded to the tune of 62 percent.

The CTA, which manages the second-largest public transit system in the U.S., had to hope for a huge contribution from the Illinois state legislature. That wasn’t going to happen.

Then the authority found an answer.

“We’ve identified the problem and a solution,” said CTA Chairman Carole Brown on April 16, 2007. The agency decided to raise money from a bond sale.

A year later, it asked Illinois Auditor General William Holland to research its plan. The state hired an actuary, did a study and, on July 17, concluded that the sale of bonds would most likely result in a loss of taxpayers’ money.

Thirteen days after that, the CTA ignored the warning and issued $1.9 billion in bonds. Before the year ended, the pension fund was paying out more to bondholders than it was earning on its new influx of money. Instead of closing its funding gap, the CTA was falling further behind.

[Busjack]

The Real Estate Transfer Tax was supposed to generate a small part of the $300mil. I thought it was something like $37 mil. of the 300. Here is the article....

I wasn't the one to say that it was supposed to cover the whole $300 million of the deficit for 2010, just that it was paying the bonds that were paying your pension. In addition, the sales tax isn't now generating what was then claimed, either (if we take Pace's numbers, with regard to the paratransit formula, it is off 12% from 2008 levels; probably worse in Cook County, where Stroger is driving away business to other counties and states by his sales tax increase).

At least you provided the citation to the Bloomberg article that said that only Carole Brown then thought that the Bond/Real Estate Transfer Tax would work, but others didn't. Of course, it works even less well when real estate transfers in Chicago are about 1/4 of what they once were.

Going to what Bloomberg said, the bonds pay 6.8%, while the money was invested in money market funds earning 2%. The original thinking behind pension bonds was that the state would have the benefit of the arbitrage between the bond interest and the rate of return on pension investments, but that never occurred here. They also say that the expected rate of return by other pension funds was 8%, which might uphold the arbitrage theory, but with the market collapse in late 2008, that didn't happen. I guess the taxpayers are lucky that the CTA bond money was not invested in stocks, say, in August 2008.

The only point I can make that is relevant is that we were promised a long term fix in 2008, so when that didn't happen, I'm not taking Robert Kelly's word that his fix in 2010 would be "long term," either.

[greenstreet]

Thank You !

Someone who realizes whats going on. As of this date ... no managers got any layoff notices.

busfan, did you mean to say that as of this date you don't know of any managers who got layoff notices?

Because, unless you are privy to all the employment actions throughout the CTA, I'm not sure you can say that "no managers got any layoff notices" with any credibility.

I'm not privy to all the employment actions, either, but I can speak to what I do know. Of the handful of managers I know, I'm aware of two who received layoff notices. Could they be the only two? - possibly. Could there be others who got notices that I'm not aware of? - also possible. I can't make blanket statements about all managers because I don't know all the managers - nor do I know details about their employment status.

I'm also aware of at least two non-manager, non-union employees who received layoff notices. These employees will lose their jobs as of Jan 1, while the union employees will lose their jobs on or after Feb 7, depending on whether they are operations or maintenance.

[busfan]

Ok to correct ...

To my knowlegde or anyone elses I have talked to in the system I have not heard of any Bus Maintenance Managers getting layoff notices. If 2 you know got them for a layoff date of Jan 1st that means they got them sometime in late Sept. (to comply with the 90 notice requirement). If any get them now in 90 days it would be past the Feb. 4th deadline for putting the budget in effect. So thats why Im assuming Managers wont get any. Rumor is they are getting rid of Managers II's. None have recieved layoff notices. It will probably be a manuver like they did about 10 years ago. They got rid of "supervisors", and re-named them "managers", and instead of 1 in each gagrage, they hired more and had 4 in each garage plus the foremen. Then they eliminated the foremen and created more managers. 6 years ago they eliminated a bunch of non-union jobs only to "retitle" the positions to something else and no one lost their job. In 2003 they had 50 foremen and 7 managers in the bus system. They got rid of the foremen and now have I believe 200 managers in the bus system.

[Busjack]

Rumor is they are getting rid of Managers II's. None have recieved [sic] layoff notices.

Since you say others have rumor, have you interviewed every one of them and confirmed that none of them did? Considering your history of posting your own rumors on this board, I doubt it.

But, as I said before,I'll let others have their internal dispute.

[cta_44499_FG]

Since you say others have rumor, have you interviewed every one of them and confirmed that none of them did? Considering your history of posting your own rumors on this board, I doubt it.

But, as I said before,I'll let others have their internal dispute.

No knowledge on this end of the camp. But we do not want to speculate now do we?

[New Flyer]

Local 308 had a last minute rally today at CTA headquarters that supposed to start at 10. I was there at 9:45 and no one there. President of 308 didn't arrive until almost 11 there were only 20 of us there and it was pitiful.

They could have done a better job of telling people for a decent turn out. This is nothing to play with people sjobs are on the line. 241 is planning a rally for Tuesday 12/8 we need folks to be there. 7 of the 9 x buses being eliminated are on the south side its time for everyone to take a stand there is too much to lose.

[Busjack]

Local 308 had a last minute rally today at CTA headquarters that supposed to start at 10. I was there at 9:45 and no one there. President of 308 didn't arrive until almost 11 there were only 20 of us there and it was pitiful.

I was told not to mention that there was a Personal Messenger message here about 9:30, but if that is the way the union intended to get the people out, apparently it did not work.

While the Illinois Supreme Court has reaffirmed the CTA unions' right to protest and leaflet the citizenry, apparently they have to do a better job of it.

[busfan]

Since you say others have rumor, have you interviewed every one of them and confirmed that none of them did? Considering your history of posting your own rumors on this board, I doubt it.

But, as I said before,I'll let others have their internal dispute.

Considering my history of posting rumors ?

Can I ask you .... do you actually work for CTA or watch the news and think you know all the internal workings of CTA ? That was a very dumb comment for you to post since you have never dis-proven any of my posts to this date as of yet !

The people that are replying that work for CTA know whats going on and are posting inteligent replys here. If you want a job with CTA so bad .... apply for one ! Please leave the rude comments out of this conversation.

Thank You

[busfan]

I guess this is a ruomr also.

http://www.wgntv.com/news/wgntv-cta-tax-hike-nov16,0,6204012.story

Like I said ..... read towards the bottom. Its about union busting.

CTA has been trying to get out of contributing their share to the pension plan for years. we have no "Lucrative Pension Plan". 26 years of service for the old timers gets you about $2100 a month after taxes and health care costs for a single person. $16-1700 a month for the family plan.