Rail Service

[ChicagoNova]

I don't know what everyone might think of this, but I think the CTA should join the Brown Line and the Orange Line to operate as one train line to operate between Kimball and Midway.

[jajuan]

I don't know what everyone might think of this, but I think the CTA should join the Brown Line and the Orange Line to operate as one train line to operate between Kimball and Midway.

And how would you route the combined route through the Loop Elevated without cutting access to portions of said structure or without hampering the connections to other CTA rail lines that are currently made?

[RJL6000]

I don't know what everyone might think of this, but I think the CTA should join the Brown Line and the Orange Line to operate as one train line to operate between Kimball and Midway.

And how would you route the combined route through the Loop Elevated without cutting access to portions of said structure or without hampering the connections to other CTA rail lines that are currently made?

Put them both together and you know what I mean: The only feasible routing through the Loop for that combined route would be to route the service only on Lake Street and Wabash Avenue. This would eliminate access to the Van Buren and Wells sides of the Loop and would also eliminate the second transfer point between the Loop and the Red or Blue Lines (currently free transfers between the Library-State/Van Buren station and the Jackson/State and Jackson/Dearborn subway stations; if the Brown-Orange through routing occurs, the transfers between Library-State/Van Buren and Jackson/State or Jackson/Dearborn would revert to a "paid" system which always deducts the cost of a transfer). To compensate for all those losses, the Green Line would have to be split into two separate routes (with two different line color names that are yet to be determined), both of them terminating around the Loop. As a result, the only through-routing to or from Kimball which would use all four sides of the Loop would be to through-route the Brown Line to a West Side line which operates to and from the Loop via the Lake Street Elevated (either the Pink Line or the Lake Street leg of the current Green Line, which would result in a Kimball-54th or Kimball-Harlem through-routing). This design was "set in stone" way back in 1900 when the Northwestern Elevated (the ancestor to today's Brown and Purple Lines and the northern half of the Red Line) first ran trains into the Loop.

[artthouwill]

This sounds a bit lofty.

first peak service runs twice as frequently on Brown as it does Orange. I suppose the only way to compensate for the Wells/Van Buren part would be Purple Line service, but then that's only during rush hour. There is no Loop elevated service with that type of frequency.

[Busjack]

This was part of our old friend Frank Kruesi's Circle Line plan (cf. Chicago-L.org). As I recall the maps, the Midway-Ravenswood would be on Van Buren and Wells, and the Douglas-Ravenswood would circle like the Pink Line does now (Ravenswood-Douglas the other way).

Of course, others of us have previously mentioned that the plan does not seem feasible in that the Pink Line's frequency is too low, and the Orange Line would lose the connection at Clark and Lake.

[RJL6000]

This was part of our old friend Frank Kruesi's Circle Line plan (cf. Chicago-L.org). As I recall the maps, the Midway-Ravenswood would be on Van Buren and Wells, and the Douglas-Ravenswood would circle like the Pink Line does now (Ravenswood-Douglas the other way).

Of course, others of us have previously mentioned that the plan does not seem feasible in that the Pink Line's frequency is too low, and the Orange Line would lose the connection at Clark and Lake.

In that plan, the only transfer point between the combined Brown/Orange line and the Blue Line would have been at Library/State-Van Buren. And transfers from this combined route to the Green Line would have been restricted to the Roosevelt elevated station. (I did not include the Wells Street entrance to the Clark/Lake subway station since that entrance is a farecard-only auxiliary entrance.)

As for the "Douglas-Ravenswood" through-routing, Kimball-bound trains would have turned right from eastbound Lake to southbound Wells, a connection that's currently unused by revenue trains, at Tower 18 (and thus use the Outer Loop tracks) while 54th-bound trains would have actually turned left from southbound Wells to eastbound Lake at that same junction, the same routing that Purple Line Express trains currently use.

[Busjack]

My reading was to maintain consistency for Ravenswood riders, both types of trains to Ravenswood would have to be on the inner loop. However, trying to divine Frank is, in retrospect, a hopeless task.

[Guest]

I would love to see a link up of the Blue and Orange Lines to make one rail line serving the two airports. But what I would love to see is the return of overhead catenary back on the Skokie Swift. I miss that, I always had a special regard to the Swift because of its overhead catenary. Without the overhead it just looks like just another rail line.

[RJL6000]

I would love to see a link up of the Blue and Orange Lines to make one rail line serving the two airports. But what I would love to see is the return of overhead catenary back on the Skokie Swift. I miss that, I always had a special regard to the Swift because of its overhead catenary. Without the overhead it just looks like just another rail line.

Also, at one point the Evanston line and the westernmost portion of the Lake line had overhead trolley wire. The Evanston was fully converted to third rail in November 1973 while the Lake was fully converted to third rail when the tracks west of Laramie were elevated in October 1962 (prior to that time, the Lake line west of Laramie ran at street level). Personally, I would love to see all of the CTA's trackage that's not on a "classic" steel elevated structure to be converted from third rail to overhead electrification (catenary or trolley wire).

[ChicagoNova]

Put them both together and you know what I mean: The only feasible routing through the Loop for that combined route would be to route the service only on Lake Street and Wabash Avenue. This would eliminate access to the Van Buren and Wells sides of the Loop and would also eliminate the second transfer point between the Loop and the Red or Blue Lines (currently free transfers between the Library-State/Van Buren station and the Jackson/State and Jackson/Dearborn subway stations; if the Brown-Orange through routing occurs, the transfers between Library-State/Van Buren and Jackson/State or Jackson/Dearborn would revert to a "paid" system which always deducts the cost of a transfer). To compensate for all those losses, the Green Line would have to be split into two separate routes (with two different line color names that are yet to be determined), both of them terminating around the Loop. As a result, the only through-routing to or from Kimball which would use all four sides of the Loop would be to through-route the Brown Line to a West Side line which operates to and from the Loop via the Lake Street Elevated (either the Pink Line or the Lake Street leg of the current Green Line, which would result in a Kimball-54th or Kimball-Harlem through-routing). This design was "set in stone" way back in 1900 when the Northwestern Elevated (the ancestor to today's Brown and Purple Lines and the northern half of the Red Line) first ran trains into the Loop.

I was thinking that either the trains (if they were to travel between Kimball and Midway) could go via Lake and Wabash, via Wells and Van Buren, or travel through the Red Line Subway if that's ever possible. Then they would have to do something to the old tracks that trains used to travel on, traveling between Howard and Ashland/63rd or Stony Island/63rd. Tracks were coming out of the subway after leaving Roosevelt going south and coming to the elevated tracks that are currently traveled on by Orange and Green Line trains.

[RJL6000]

I was thinking that either the trains (if they were to travel between Kimball and Midway) could go via Lake and Wabash, via Wells and Van Buren, or travel through the Red Line Subway if that's ever possible.

The Kruesi plan had the through-routed line going via Wells and Van Buren (in both directions). If this were to occur, then the only direct transfer point between the new route and the Green Line would be at Roosevelt (since Green Line trains would continue to use Lake and Wabash for its through-routing), and the only transfer point between the new route and the Blue Line would be at Library/State-Van Buren. This would make transfers between the new line and the Green Line somewhat less convenient than they currently are (especially when transferring from a Midway-bound Brown/Orange Line train to a Harlem-bound Green Line train) even though Roosevelt is (relatively speaking) a highly patronized transfer point, especially for transfers between the Red and current Orange lines.

[BUSANGEL#1]

originally the brown and orange combo was called the "tiger line" but, due to the issue of frequency and loop routing the board killed the plan.