Southside proposal

[Buslover88]

Hello, I think ther should sereval Inprovements on the Southside:

>Make about 3-6 New Routes

>Extend Purple Line to 63rd Street/Leavitt

>Make a New "Silver" or any other Color Line

>Extend Blue Line Trains from 54th/Cermak, going Southbound

>Extend Green Line Branch (Ashland/63rd) past Midway, going to at least Archer/67th

>Extend Orange Line to Ford City or futher South

The New Routes I think they should make is:

#31 East 31st

#31A West 31st

#27 Praire

#83 83rd Street

#91 91st Street (Rename Austin to #89)

#99 99th Street

#107 107th Street

The #31 would run from Archer/Pitney to LakeShore Drive.

The #31A would run from 35th/Archer, travel on 35th to Calforina, turn onto Calforina, then turn onto 31st Street going to Harlem.

The #27 Praire would run from Division/Michigan, then turn onto Praire and go South to 95th/Dan Ryan.

The #83 would run from 83rd/Harlem to 83rd/Mackinaw, turn it on Mackinaw to 84th Street, turn it left onto 84th, then turn it onto Green Bay Avenue to 83rd.

The #91 91st Street would run from 91st/Harlem, at Cicero, turn it to 87th Street, then at Southwest Highway, turn it onto there, and at 91st, turn it back onto there until Vicennes turning it onto there until 88th turn it onto the right there until Halsted then it would continue to 95th and turn left there until it got to 95th/Dan Ryan

The #99 99th Street would run from 99th/Central and run on 99th until it got to Beverly, it would turn left there until 95th, then it would turn right onto 95th and Run Express to 95th/Dan Ryan.

The #107 107th Street would begin at 107th/Cicero and run on 107th until Scarmento, then it would turn left onto Scarmento until 103rd, then it would turn right onto there until it got to Calforina it would turn right there until it got to 107th, then it would turn left onto there until it got to the Terminal at the 107th Street Metra Station.

Now for the Train Lines:

The Purple would join the Green & Orange Line Trains leaving out of Downtown until 17th Street, have it go Via Subway until it got to the Blue Line Douglas's 18th Street Station, then continue it to Leavitt, then it would travel on Leavitt until 63rd. It would make the following Stops:

Cermak, 26th, 31st, 35th (Transfer to Orange Line), 39th, 43rd, 47th, 51st, 55th, 59th & 63rd (Transfer to "Sliver", Blue & Green Line Trains)

The 54th/Cermak Branch would Extend from 54th to Central, then it would turn South onto Central making the following Stops:

26th, 35th, Pershing, 43rd, 47th, 51st, 55th (Midway) and 59th (Midway), then it would turn onto 63rd Street, turning it East until it got to Leavitt. It would make the following Stops:Cicero, Pulaski, Centra Park, Kedzie, Calforina and Leavitt (Transfer to Green, Purple & "Sliver" Lines).

The Green Line's "Ashland/63rd" Branch would be Extended to Archer/67th, it would make the following Stops: Leavitt (Transfer to Blue, Purple and "Sliver" Lines), Calforina, Kedzie, Pulaski, Midway, Austin, Narragansett, Harlem & Archer/67th.

The "Sliver Line would run from 64th/Leavitt to I-57/I-294, it would make the following Stops:67th, 71st, 75th, 79th (transfer to #79), 83rd (transfer to #83), 87th (transfer to #87), 91st (transfer to the "#91 91st), 95th (transfer to #95 & #381), 99th (Transfer to #99), 103rd (transfer to #103), 107th (transfer to #107), 111th, 115th, 119th, 123rd (Transfer to Merta Station), 127th (Transfer to Metra Station), Blue Island (Transfer to Merta Station), 135th, 139th and I-57/I-294.

Lastly, the Orange Line might be Extended to 76th (Ford City) or (I Hope) further South. It would make the following Stops:76th, 87th, 95th, 103rd, 107th & 111th.

I am interested in what anyone else has to say. I hope this Idea could happen by 2030. I call it the "Southside proposal".

[MetroShadow]

Trains: The only consideration for anything would be the Orange Line extension to Ford City. As far as the green blue and silver lines, the plan is impossible to implement; at the same time, there won't be many people that can take those lines. You can save yourself the worry, given the circle line would be the only decent option you can implement. This proposal, as much as ideal as it could be, is subject to issues with money, subway routing, and not using track which is already there.

Circle Line, should it work, is a better alternative. Best to just let that specifically run its course. Its more or less in motion now (or at least one would argue).

As for all of the other routes:

Most routes can't run straight through from LSD to Harlem. You have an expressway, a river, not to mention a hell of a lot of cutoffs that doesn't guarantee service. Not to mention the further south you go, the city of chicago limits get "closer" towards the lakefront. Not to mention, You need to match the service to the route, and deliver them to their destinations.

31 came and went, and its companion 32, died out as soon as the Orange Line came out in 1994.

27 means taking service which is already established through routes #1, #3, and #4. More or less, you're throwing out #1. Prarie itself doesn't even run all the way through onto 95th anyway. Not to mention that Indiana and Michigan (which was served through route #1 and if you want to go back the #X38 during the green line era) doesn't run two-ways through.

#83 doesn't run all the way through. Go anywhere past Cicero, and you're into suburban territory if I am not mistaken. It can work as a feeder to 79th Red Line, if you do it correctly.

renaming 89 to 91 and the other way around...BAD IDEA. You have the Dan Ryan woods, not to mention a problem with one way streets also.

then 99 in itself won't work I think you're mainly inside of Evergreen Park, and they won't have of it. Keep in mind 99th may run through from at least Pulaski to Beverly, but its no need.

I actually may be in support of 107,under one condition: the route runs completely from Pulaski/104th to at least 111th/Cottage Grove, without having it to terminate at the Red Line. Why? Because the route can serve the Rock Island and Electric District (with room to connect at 115th to the South Shore).

Anyways, wasn't there talk of restructuring the south side (at least the routes that surround the 95th station) anyway?

[Buslover88]

Well, I like the Idea at least having East #31 coming back and the #27, it could run to the End of Praire. And the #83 could run from Cicero to at least Cottage Grove, serving either the 79th Street Station or 87th. #91 (or 89), I myself could not see that work. #99 could go from 99th/Pulaski to 95th/Dan Ryan. #107 is a good idea imo. As for Train Lines, I know only the Orange Line could work.

[Buslover88]

Well, I could see the #27, 31, 83, 99 & 107 working already. But as far as #91 goes, I may need to check that or maybe even 99 or 83. But as far as Bus Lines go, I see 27, 31 & 107 really working. Train Lines:maybe only the Orange Line. Besides, I'm too Scared to head to the Southside, altough, I would like to go one day.

[Busjack]

I decided to take down my posts from this thread, as nothing seems to be accomplished engaging in this debate. I suggested that if any of you really believe in these, Pace is having its South Suburban Initiative now (see also the Press Release), and CTA announced in connection with the west side one that it would have a south side one in the next year. Convince them; there is no point in trying to convince me or anyone else on this forum.

[MetroShadow]

One would argue that the beverly/southeast side routes all feed into the 95th street station in one way or another.

Again, 27 wouldn't work because you not only have to find a way to get around downtown (Division and Michigan is virtually in downtown...you can't put a bus down those side streets, it doesn't work and I have seen it happen before)...but you have to manipulate getting around bronzeville, and especially into the south side (you have to get past the rail yard at 63rd and then faced with narrow streets down Prairie. Not to mention, given the proximity to King Drive, you have TWO routes there...why take out ridership from there?! It doesn't work.

83rd...only serves as a possible feeder, but you have to manipulate the route around 79th and 87th because 83rd doesn't go all the way through. I already told you that you have to run it via one of those two streets. 83rd doesn't go through because of the Dan Ryan Woods, number one, and two, you have the Rail Yards along the Southwest Service (correct me if I am wrong). You can't run it past Pulaski since you have to move it around the park where the High School is at (79th and Pulaski...can't put my finger on it). Only way it can work is from 79th/Western to the Red Line, to 83rd/Stony Island (longshot to jeffery)...its a feeder and nothing else. You have plenty of buses on 79th anyway and plenty on 87th.

89/91 or 99.....absolutely not. I've said it once, and I will say it again, you cannot put buses on streets that doesn't go all the way through (99th practically starts West of Vincennes/I-57) because the street splits off. You already have service on 95W to Western, and 381 provides enough service past Western anyway. Besides, do you really think that evergreen park and oak lawn will take CTA service past Western? not to mention that 99th is weirdly configured east of halsted (which you didn't mention). 103West takes enough service as is, let alone doesn't even have full buses during the evenings (rather, there's 15/20 minute headways on 103West to begin with)...again, bad idea.

107 may work, as long as you don't run it to the Red Line. Too much traffic on 95th, not to mention if you run the route 107-Halsted-Red Line- Michigan-103rd-State-107th, it'll be confusing, time consuming, and a pain. I already have witnessed issues taking 103West from 103rd to the Red Line as it is.

routing: 104-pulaski-107-kedzie-103-california-107-cottage-115-king-111-cottage-107

that's the only way to do it.

and for 31...you already have people using 35th more and more. Only use for that route is to get to Michael Reese from the Ashland Orange Line, and 35th already covers both bases. It won't work.

And in order for you to make any moves regarding transit, you have to understand the south side, and everyone's needs. Just because they don't live on Diversey, doesn't mean you make routes based on stuff you may not know. Besides, to be an effective planner, you have to understand the needs of the people, and if you are too scared to go to the south side, then you may not be in a good position to start making changes for places you don't know.

-Dave

[Buslover88]

Forget about it...NONE of the ROUTES WILL WORK!!!! FORGET THIS STUPID SOUTHSIDE PROPOSAL, I DON'T EVEN LIVE THERE, WHY I AM WORRIED ABOUT IT!!?? I SHOULD BE WORRIED ABOUT LOGAN SQUARE!! This Southside Proposal, I don't anymore because I am gonna ask Mr.Zolk to Close it....

[Kevin]

While some of the routings Buslover88 came up with may be impractical, does it hurt to dream? I admire his ambition to come up with all these ideas. He has a lot to learn, but the passion to do so is evident.

[Buslover88]

Thanks Mr.Zolk...at least you understand, I LOVE these ideas, but People on here make it like it CANNOT happen....another thing:doesn't CTA SERVE the Subarbs? However, this Southside Prospal COULD work...

[trainman8119]

I agree that it is okay to dream...I do it all the time. But I also agree that you have to take into account who changes will affect, and are they beneficial. The south side is a little bit weird, because so much is cut off by rail yards and industry in general. I do think that there is a lot of overlap in services, particularly with the CTA verring off into the suburb areas that are or at least could be covered by Pace. Could things be a little more simplistic. Yup, absolutely...right down to which garages (or depots, if you like) a bus will operate from. I think CTA service could be much better that it is now. I remember the days when a bus was 3-5 minutes away in rush hour. Now powers are proud that a new proposal will make things better by making intervals 7.5 minutes in rush hour(new west side proposal recently passed for test).

[Buslover88]

I agree with that, maybe PACE should operate some of the Routes, basically West of Cicero, and the Southside is werid, at least West, North and South of Midway and also South of 63rd Street or even West of Halsted.

[Buslover88]

Well, I clicked on the Link...I think those Improvements are better...by the way, where IS the Pubilc Hearings?

[kendo26]

It would be nice to dream of a revived 31/31A/32 bus route. Currently to get to the Domminck's at 31st and Ashland I have to take a 44 to Archer and then either a 62 bus or the Orange Line to Ashland. I also relize this will probaly remain a dream. 31st street seems too narrow for Bus traffic, as well as low ridership. It wouldn't have been cut back in '97 if it had substantial ridership.

[Chi-town Kid]

BusLover had a lot of good thoughts, but some of them do not work:

Good Routes:

#31- This needs to be brought back. 31st can be kind of narrow, but new construction is all along this street and ridership will only increase. A Bronzeville-Bridgeport link.

#83- I think this route would work between the Dan Ryan and the lakefront, and possibly west to Western or so. 83rd doesn't go through the Skyway or the park next to the Dan Ryan, but these things can be worked around.

#107- Would also work. Should be done between Cottage Grove and somewhere between Western and Pulaski. Keep in mind the western portion of the route is not that dense, so ridership could be low there.

#31A (Questionable)- There is a corridor for service here, but I support the #82 turning east at 31st and heading to the 35th/Archer station instead of the #31A. This covers most of the #31A's route. #31A might not have ridership to sustain self on own.

#27, #91, #99 (NO!)- These streets are too narrow to run buses on and do not go through in many places in addition to being one way. #27 would steal traffic from #1, #3, and #4.

[busfan4022]

I remeber that on a detour one day, #14, and #87, had to come down Anthony(near the express way[wear i saw the very first Orion I ] ) Is it possible to make additonal route? Possibley the bus going down to 95st, then to midway? I mean, i haven't thought about other last stops, but this could be a great route....please tell me what you think!

Oh and im just brainstroming, havent figuerd out all other stops!

[Chicago80]

Hello, I think ther should sereval Inprovements on the Southside:

>Make about 3-6 New Routes

>Extend Purple Line to 63rd Street/Leavitt

>Make a New "Silver" or any other Color Line

>Extend Blue Line Trains from 54th/Cermak, going Southbound

>Extend Green Line Branch (Ashland/63rd) past Midway, going to at least Archer/67th

>Extend Orange Line to Ford City or futher South

The New Routes I think they should make is:

#31 East 31st

#31A West 31st

#27 Praire

#83 83rd Street

#91 91st Street (Rename Austin to #89)

#99 99th Street

#107 107th Street

The #31 would run from Archer/Pitney to LakeShore Drive.

The #31A would run from 35th/Archer, travel on 35th to Calforina, turn onto Calforina, then turn onto 31st Street going to Harlem.

The #27 Praire would run from Division/Michigan, then turn onto Praire and go South to 95th/Dan Ryan.

The #83 would run from 83rd/Harlem to 83rd/Mackinaw, turn it on Mackinaw to 84th Street, turn it left onto 84th, then turn it onto Green Bay Avenue to 83rd.

The #91 91st Street would run from 91st/Harlem, at Cicero, turn it to 87th Street, then at Southwest Highway, turn it onto there, and at 91st, turn it back onto there until Vicennes turning it onto there until 88th turn it onto the right there until Halsted then it would continue to 95th and turn left there until it got to 95th/Dan Ryan

The #99 99th Street would run from 99th/Central and run on 99th until it got to Beverly, it would turn left there until 95th, then it would turn right onto 95th and Run Express to 95th/Dan Ryan.

The #107 107th Street would begin at 107th/Cicero and run on 107th until Scarmento, then it would turn left onto Scarmento until 103rd, then it would turn right onto there until it got to Calforina it would turn right there until it got to 107th, then it would turn left onto there until it got to the Terminal at the 107th Street Metra Station.

Now for the Train Lines:

The Purple would join the Green & Orange Line Trains leaving out of Downtown until 17th Street, have it go Via Subway until it got to the Blue Line Douglas's 18th Street Station, then continue it to Leavitt, then it would travel on Leavitt until 63rd. It would make the following Stops:

Cermak, 26th, 31st, 35th (Transfer to Orange Line), 39th, 43rd, 47th, 51st, 55th, 59th & 63rd (Transfer to "Sliver", Blue & Green Line Trains)

The 54th/Cermak Branch would Extend from 54th to Central, then it would turn South onto Central making the following Stops:

26th, 35th, Pershing, 43rd, 47th, 51st, 55th (Midway) and 59th (Midway), then it would turn onto 63rd Street, turning it East until it got to Leavitt. It would make the following Stops:Cicero, Pulaski, Centra Park, Kedzie, Calforina and Leavitt (Transfer to Green, Purple & "Sliver" Lines).

The Green Line's "Ashland/63rd" Branch would be Extended to Archer/67th, it would make the following Stops: Leavitt (Transfer to Blue, Purple and "Sliver" Lines), Calforina, Kedzie, Pulaski, Midway, Austin, Narragansett, Harlem & Archer/67th.

The "Sliver Line would run from 64th/Leavitt to I-57/I-294, it would make the following Stops:67th, 71st, 75th, 79th (transfer to #79), 83rd (transfer to #83), 87th (transfer to #87), 91st (transfer to the "#91 91st), 95th (transfer to #95 & #381), 99th (Transfer to #99), 103rd (transfer to #103), 107th (transfer to #107), 111th, 115th, 119th, 123rd (Transfer to Merta Station), 127th (Transfer to Metra Station), Blue Island (Transfer to Merta Station), 135th, 139th and I-57/I-294.

Lastly, the Orange Line might be Extended to 76th (Ford City) or (I Hope) further South. It would make the following Stops:76th, 87th, 95th, 103rd, 107th & 111th.

I am interested in what anyone else has to say. I hope this Idea could happen by 2030. I call it the "Southside proposal".

Here are my proposal for a better CTA 'L system.

Extend the Green line (east 63rd branch) to 63rd/Stony Island or even 67th/South Shore and (Ashland/63rd) to 63rd/Western.

Extend Blue line (54th/Cermak) to Brookfield Zoo or Riverside Mall and (Forest Park) to Maywood and run exclusively on the Eisenhower Expressway.

Extend Orange line south to at least Ford City Mall.

Eliminate Pink Line.

Create the Circle Line (Brown line).

Combine the Ravenswood and Midway line to form the new Orange Line.

Extend the Red line northbound to Wilmette and eliminate the Red Line. Extend the Red line southbound to Vermont St. (Blue Island) and Hegewisch (137th/Baltimore) with the transition stop at 95th/State.

Add a new line along the Chicago city border which would connect all the rail lines together.

[trainman8119]

Why is it that everyone wants to put the CTA into the suburbs. If you want to make the CTA more efficient, eliminate all CTA train and bus service that crosses the city limits. Let the suburbs pick up the tab for their service. Remember, Pace is the Suburban division of the RTA, not the CTA. Keep the CTA in the city and go from there. Some of these proposals are so ridiculous it is mind boggling.

[Busjack]

Why bring up a 2 year old topic?

And before suggesting any of this, please state where the rights of way are, for the Green and Blue Line extensions, or the Red Line extension to Blue Island (unless you are advocating taking over the Metra Electric single track to Blue Island for that purpose).

If you eliminate the Pink Line, what are going to do with the $390 million already invested there? The past year has proven that it does not have the ridership that justifies splitting Blue Line service with it.

Extending the Red Line north to Wilmette is unfeasible because the yard is at Howard, most of the stations north of there only can handle six cars, and while the Red Line trains are 8 cars most of the time, the Purple Line supports 2 car service, except during the rush hour.

People from Hegewisch take the South Shore, and Metra adequately subsidizes NICTD for serving them.

The Orange Line extension, Midway and Ravenswood combo, Circle Line, and Mid-City Line have been suggested by the CTA, at least conceptually. We must await whether any of that happens.

[Busjack]

Why is it that everyone wants to put the CTA into the suburbs. If you want to make the CTA more efficient, eliminate all CTA train and bus service that crosses the city limits. Let the suburbs pick up the tab for their service. Remember, Pace is the Suburban division of the RTA, not the CTA. Keep the CTA in the city and go from there. Some of these proposals are so ridiculous it is mind boggling.

Exactly right, trainman. Doomsday is close to being over (except in Mayor Daley's eyes) and the people wanting to spend infinite money are returning, even though there is no capital bill.

Unless someone is suggesting a fantasy thread or a Sim City transit game, I say to pass on these type of proposals.

[Buslover88]

Extend the Green line (east 63rd branch) to 63rd/Stony Island or even 67th/South Shore and (Ashland/63rd) to 63rd/Western.

Extend Blue line (54th/Cermak) to Brookfield Zoo or Riverside Mall and (Forest Park) to Maywood and run exclusively on the Eisenhower Expressway.

Extend Orange line south to at least Ford City Mall.

Extend the Red line northbound to Wilmette and eliminate the Red Line. Extend the Red line southbound to Vermont St. (Blue Island) and Hegewisch (137th/Baltimore) with the transition stop at 95th/State.

I agree with your proposal regarding the Orange and Green Lines, but I disagree with the rest because CTA isn't supposed to serve the suburbs (well, not going into them).

Why is it that everyone wants to put the CTA into the suburbs. If you want to make the CTA more efficient, eliminate all CTA train and bus service that crosses the city limits. Let the suburbs pick up the tab for their service. Remember, Pace is the Suburban division of the RTA, not the CTA. Keep the CTA in the city and go from there. Some of these proposals are so ridiculous it is mind boggling.

Exactly right, trainman. Doomsday is close to being over (except in Mayor Daley's eyes) and the people wanting to spend infinite money are returning, even though there is no capital bill.

Agreed.

[jajuan]

Why is it that everyone wants to put the CTA into the suburbs. If you want to make the CTA more efficient, eliminate all CTA train and bus service that crosses the city limits. Let the suburbs pick up the tab for their service. Remember, Pace is the Suburban division of the RTA, not the CTA. Keep the CTA in the city and go from there. Some of these proposals are so ridiculous it is mind boggling.

The CTA is already in the suburbs (i.e. Purple Line in Evanston, Blue and Green lines in Oak Park, direct streamline service to North Riverside Mall on 21). Cutting back that service to the city limits, the way it is configured now, IS NOT practical. Why ask riders to add an extra bus to their work commute, be it surburbs to downtown or from the city to jobs in the suburbs, just because some of us are so hung up on Pace being for the suburbs and CTA for the city? I wouldn't want to make a commute on two buses when I can just do it in one or two buses and a train when I can do so more efficiently wit one less bus. I'll agree that we shouldn't be looking for the CTA to move any further into the suburbs than it already is because it does defeat the purpose of having Pace, but I'm not going to support making people's commute more cumbersome by eliminating connections between Pace and the CTA in the border suburbs that have worked for commuters for years in the name of trying to keep the two totally separate from each other. You just can't separate the two in the border suburbs without inconveniencing a lot of riders and in today's climate with a possible looming doomsday, neither wants to antagonize an already frustrated riding public. We'll just have to be content with some mix of the two near the border suburbs.

[trainman8119]

I am not necessarily saying that all current CTA service that crosses into suburbia should be eliminated. My point is that so many people arae saying the CTA should add service to areas they have no business going into. That is not being practical. However, if there is such a real crisis and service needs to be cut, that should be the first place to look. Don't panic, it ain't gonna happen. But for example, I would cut Evanston service long before I would cut, say, any lakefront express route within the city. As a city operator, why would I care if someone could ride from Wilmette downtown on the CTA. Let em' ride Metra. As a city operator, it is more important to focus on routes within the city limits over any routes on the outside in. And remember, this would apply only to a budget reduction scenario and nothing else. As Busjack says, unless it is Sim Transit City, it is all moot.

[jajuan]

I am not necessarily saying that all current CTA service that crosses into suburbia should be eliminated. My point is that so many people arae saying the CTA should add service to areas they have no business going into. That is not being practical. However, if there is such a real crisis and service needs to be cut, that should be the first place to look. Don't panic, it ain't gonna happen. But for example, I would cut Evanston service long before I would cut, say, any lakefront express route within the city. As a city operator, why would I care if someone could ride from Wilmette downtown on the CTA. Let em' ride Metra. As a city operator, it is more important to focus on routes within the city limits over any routes on the outside in. And remember, this would apply only to a budget reduction scenario and nothing else. As Busjack says, unless it is Sim Transit City, it is all moot.

Well of course that I can understand. In a crunch situation, you have to do what you need to do to survive for your primary base. My point is those who think the CTA should scale back in suburbia regardless of finances. That's the part I was saying was impractical. But it does bring to mind my support for a previous call to get rid of the three service boards and consolidate all under one service agency as has been done in other metropolitan areas. Now that sounds extremely more efficient to me. But how to eliminate the politics out of the equation as we see with the current three service boards is the question. Give the suburbs and the city equal say on the operations and you could probably get rid of the squabbling and infighting among the current three about who's getting more than who.

[Guest bohica]

Busjack a Sims City transit game has potential. Maybe a game like this could help fund mass transit. Anyone of us in a municipal job is living on a dream. Everyday we come in and it is like another night of dreaming wondering what happened.

[BUSANGEL#1]

The CTA is already in the suburbs (i.e. Purple Line in Evanston, Blue and Green lines in Oak Park, direct streamline service to North Riverside Mall on 21). Cutting back that service to the city limits, the way it is configured now, IS NOT practical. Why ask riders to add an extra bus to their work commute, be it surburbs to downtown or from the city to jobs in the suburbs, just because some of us are so hung up on Pace being for the suburbs and CTA for the city? I wouldn't want to make a commute on two buses when I can just do it in one or two buses and a train when I can do so more efficiently wit one less bus. I'll agree that we shouldn't be looking for the CTA to move any further into the suburbs than it already is because it does defeat the purpose of having Pace, but I'm not going to support making people's commute more cumbersome by eliminating connections between Pace and the CTA in the border suburbs that have worked for commuters for years in the name of trying to keep the two totally separate from each other. You just can't separate the two in the border suburbs without inconveniencing a lot of riders and in today's climate with a possible looming doomsday, neither wants to antagonize an already frustrated riding public. We'll just have to be content with some mix of the two near the border suburbs.

Why not expand CTA service into needed suburbian areas. PACE has service in the city?