Station Platform Markings - Request for Info

[SE CTA Fan]

I am in the process of creating a new Ravenswood-style station on my CTA three rail layout.

I would like to add the yellow bearthing mark that is found on the edge of the platform.

Can someone give me some pointers on where exactly I should put the markings? I am modeling the era when conductors where used.

My station will fit a two car train, so my understanding is that the marking will be where the conductor's station would be where the two car train would pull up to the "2" indicator that is located trackside? Is this correct? I gather that this confirms to the conductor that the train is fully in the station and the doors won't open into empty space.

A picture of the station can be found on my blog ... http://ctalayout.blogspot.com/

Thanks in advance for any assistance!

Terry / SE CTA Fan

[Busjack]

I am in the process of creating a new Ravenswood-style station on my CTA three rail layout.

I would like to add the yellow bearthing mark that is found on the edge of the platform.

Can someone give me some pointers on where exactly I should put the markings? I am modeling the era when conductors where used.

My station will fit a two car train, so my understanding is that the marking will be where the conductor's station would be where the two car train would pull up to the "2" indicator that is located trackside? Is this correct? I gather that this confirms to the conductor that the train is fully in the station and the doors won't open into empty space.

A picture of the station can be found on my blog ... http://ctalayout.blogspot.com/

Thanks in advance for any assistance!

Terry / SE CTA Fan

I suppose you mean the yellow 2-4-6-8 signs.

There are no conductors.* The motorman is supposed to stop the train with its front even with the appropriate sign. On some lines (I'm not sure if it is the case on the Ravenswood), it depends on where the platform exit is, i.e., one side may have all 4 signs at the same place, and the other side has them staggered. If they are staggered and a conductor with an 8 car train stops at 6, the doors of last 2 cars don't reach the platform (as you indicated).

And, since the Brown Line platforms were, in actuality, expanded from 6 to 8 cars, a 2 car platform isn't going to be that realistic. Maybe you can model the Yellow Line (but I guess that isn't as ancient as what you are doing).

_________

*Update: Looking at your site, I see you are modelling 1950s-1970s era cars when there were conductors, but the motorman's cab (window) is at the front right of each car, while the conductor's window is at the back of either the A car or rear right of either car (if a 6200, which probably would only be on the Howard route rather than the Ravenswood one). I'm assuming that cars are in permanently coupled pairs back to back.

[sw4400]

Thanks in advance for any assistance!

Terry / SE CTA Fan

Well, SE CTA Fan, I wish you nothing but the best in your endeavors to re-create a new Ravenswood-style station. (following is not helpful, just a silly thought that popped in my mind) I was looking at your photo of the stairless platform and thinking... what if the riders use disposable, one-use only jetpacks to ascend to the platform and to leave the platform, they have to jump... yeah, JUMP down to the station house/street below?

Joking aside, the platform is looking great, and I hope you'll share photos of the completed project, and maybe even a YouTube video of it in action(presuming your trains are powered and you have a YouTube account).

[SE CTA Fan]

Busjack - my modeling era is a bit "flexible". But yes, I'm going to assume that there is a conductor on board ... gives more jobs to my O scale people. But yes, I did mean those 2-4-6-8 yellow signs. Unfortunately due to space, mine will only be a 2. I can't fit anything more than a two car train on the layout ... not enough space. But still, a 2 car train in O scale is about 2 feet long, so accomidations to size restraints must be made. I agree that only going with 2 car trains isn't very prototypical, but its the best I can do. The overall layout is only about 18 x 9.

Good point on how the conductor's window is laid out. On my two car train, the conductor would be with the motorman, so maybe this isn't such a good idea to do the yellow stripe. I didn't think about that.

sw4400 - I see you noticed the very much lacking stairs to the station below. That is up next on my bulding agenda. That project looks to be less than fun, so I've been dragging my feet on that. I consider everything a work in progress.

As for videos, I do have some up on Youtube which can be found at http://www.youtube.com/user/The1958mgmga?feature=mhee

Thanks again,

Terry / SE CTA Fan

[chicagopcclcar]

I am in the process of creating a new Ravenswood-style station on my CTA three rail layout.

I would like to add the yellow bearthing mark that is found on the edge of the platform.

Can someone give me some pointers on where exactly I should put the markings? I am modeling the era when conductors where used.

My station will fit a two car train, so my understanding is that the marking will be where the conductor's station would be where the two car train would pull up to the "2" indicator that is located trackside? Is this correct? I gather that this confirms to the conductor that the train is fully in the station and the doors won't open into empty space.

A picture of the station can be found on my blog ... http://ctalayout.blogspot.com/

Thanks in advance for any assistance!

Terry / SE CTA Fan

This reminded me I still owe you some dimensional diagrams. I'll e-mail you and send some tickets for Sunday. In the days of the 6000's the black number on the yellow square was the only berthing marker, attached to the platform girder on the right side as in your station. Experiment to find what font is used. Your platform looks long enough for a four-car train so a "2" where your two car train would be centered on the stairway and then a "4" towards the end would be perfect. There was one more berthing mark, a black capital lettter "X" on the yellow background, mounted on a metal rod extending up at an angle. The rod was attached to a tie, or to the "foolcatcher." The "X" is beyond the platform. It indicates the farthest point a motorman could berth his train and still have the front door on the platform. Motormen were taught to to put the front corner post of their head car just beyond the number berth, and never stop short of the berth, although there was usually an allowance at the rear end of the platform. Motormen were never to put the corner past the "X". If a motorman stopped and wasn't berthed properly, three buzzes meant "don't open the doors."

Now the conductor.....conductors always worked at the third or fourth car on 4-car, 6-car and 8-car trains. On the edge of the platform there would be a yellow stripe painted, about 8 to 10 inches wide. This was the conductors' safety stripe. For the maximum train on the line, the safety stripe showed the conductor his train was berthed properly and he could safely open the doors. Either corner post of the 3rd or 4th car stopped within the stripe was considered safe. If a platform exceeded the length of the longest train, there would be a long stripe reflecting that extra room. Note that the safety stripe only works for the longest train on the line. On the Ravenswood in your time period, 2 and 4 car trains didn't have a safety stripe, but the 2 and 4 car marks were far enough forward that the conductor would stop near the stripe. For your layout, use a four car train to lay out the safety stripe.

The yellow berth marks on TOP of the platform laid out in the blue tactile strip are a recent invention, only in the last couple of years and you wouldn't include that.

David Harrison

[chicagopcclcar]

_________

*Update: Looking at your site, I see you are modelling 1950s-1970s era cars when there were conductors, but the motorman's cab (window) is at the front right of each car, while the conductor's window is at the back of either the A car or rear right of either car (if a 6200, which probably would only be on the Howard route rather than the Ravenswood one). I'm assuming that cars are in permanently coupled pairs back to back.

The 6000 series had three conductor positions and all operated on the Ravenswood at times. The 6001-6200 originally came with conductor controls outside, inbetween the matched pairs. These cars opened the Milwaukee subway and in time were shifted back and forth to the Ravenswood. 6201-6470, built with PCC streetcar parts came with an enclosed cab for the conductor located opposite the motormans' cab. Most of these cars served their entire life on the North-South subway, but some may have made it to the Rav, especially in their final years after being replaced on the North South.

6471-6720 came with an "open" conductor position in the odd numbered car of married pairs. This allowed the conductor to work both sides of the train without having to go from car to car. The original 6001-6200 were converted to this type of conductor controls.

The 1-50 "one man cars" had a motormans' cab with conductor controls in the wall in each end of every car. The 1-50's assigned to the Evanston were coupled into 2 and 4 car trains during rush hours and conductors worked from the cabs inbetween the third and fourth cars. Later 6 car trains were used too. The single car operation as Evanston Shuttles and Skokie Swifts never had conductors. The rest of the 1-50 cars ran as married pairs assigned by their numbers, first on the West-Northwest, and then on the Ravenswood, but still "married." The conductors worked from the cabs at the "B" ends of the married pairs. Some of these combinations had an "open" conductor position installed opposite the motormans' cab at the "B" end of the odd numbered car when they were moved to the Ravenswood.

DH

[chicagopcclcar]

Busjack - my modeling era is a bit "flexible". But yes, I'm going to assume that there is a conductor on board ... gives more jobs to my O scale people. But yes, I did mean those 2-4-6-8 yellow signs. Unfortunately due to space, mine will only be a 2. I can't fit anything more than a two car train on the layout ... not enough space. But still, a 2 car train in O scale is about 2 feet long, so accomidations to size restraints must be made. I agree that only going with 2 car trains isn't very prototypical, but its the best I can do. The overall layout is only about 18 x 9.

Good point on how the conductor's window is laid out. On my two car train, the conductor would be with the motorman, so maybe this isn't such a good idea to do the yellow stripe. I didn't think about that.

sw4400 - I see you noticed the very much lacking stairs to the station below. That is up next on my bulding agenda. That project looks to be less than fun, so I've been dragging my feet on that. I consider everything a work in progress.

As for videos, I do have some up on Youtube which can be found at http://www.youtube.c...ga?feature=mhee

Thanks again,

Terry / SE CTA Fan

Two car trains are very appropriate for your time period. Even the North-South ran two car trains on midnights and Sunday mornings. Two car trains became frowned upon for fear that they would stall out over section gaps in the third rail.

DH

[Busjack]

Two car trains are very appropriate for your time period. Even the North-South ran two car trains on midnights and Sunday mornings. Two car trains became frowned upon for fear that they would stall out over section gaps in the third rail;

But not a 2 car platform, which was the stated constraint.

[chicagopcclcar]

But not a 2 car platform, which was the stated constraint.

But he also mentioned...."I agree that only going with 2 car trains isn't very prototypical," and I was showing him that it is prototypical for that period. Remember I drove those trains. And I also modeled the CTA L/subway in O scale with a portable layout that traveled to shows all around. If I speak and write its from fact and experience. Chill. Plus his platforms accomodate four car trains and he should include foru car markings.

DH

[Railwaymodeler]

Inside center 3rd rail, Lionel style. Is this finally a case where O-27 or O-31 are actually close to correct?:lol:

[SE CTA Fan]

David and all:

Thanks for the replies, and David ... thanks especially for the history lession. That's the kind of stuff that isn't covered too often! I never knew that about the X's.

I think I should've asked these questions before I began construction, but alas, I can't start over now. You know, I never tested if a four car train could fit in the station. Since the layout is so small, I only run two car trains (always a Sunday morning I guess). I kept it to two cars as I didn't really want the front of the train entering the next station while the end is still in the previous station...

I built the station to more fit the pattern of the girders, rather than the length of a train. I'll call that artistic license. Hey, its a bit of a leap when the Southport station leads to the Sheridan Road station, which only has two tracks, one platform and an outside storage track! Artistic license again I suppose.

Railwaymodeler - yes, its 3 rail. I like to think that its like the prototype in being 3rd rail powered, just mine is in the wrong location. But, it works and doubles as a guard rail to keep catastrophic derailments to a minimum. And, due to limited space, the O scale curves come in real handy, and don't look too out of place in being so sharp.

And David, I got your email about the charter, I am trying to work out some details and will be in touch! Thanks for the invitation.

Thanks again,

Terry

[chicagopcclcar]

David and all:

Thanks for the replies, and David ... thanks especially for the history lession. That's the kind of stuff that isn't covered too often! I never knew that about the X's.......

Railwaymodeler - yes, its 3 rail. I like to think that its like the prototype in being 3rd rail powered, just mine is in the wrong location. But, it works and doubles as a guard rail to keep catastrophic derailments to a minimum. And, due to limited space, the O scale curves come in real handy

Thanks again,

Terry

You are quite welcome. Modeling 'L's and subways is really a niche. It used to be mainly just modeling New York. Obvious, since they had the largest concentration. HO and O scale, two rail, mostly brass imports but some plastic. Then Rail King and MTH and Lionel yielded to requests and the O scale "hi rail" took over the market. There ar some real huge three-rail layouts, especially out east. Life-Like did several series of NYCTA cars in HO scale that continued under Walthers' ownership. Q Car did expoxy models in O scale of New York subways and then ventured into the Chicago scene, doing Northwestern woods, 4000s. Car Works did the CTA 5000s and 6000s in brass in the 90's. Life-Like reportedly said an attempt to do a plastic 6000 was stymied by CTA resistance. The Rail King company brought a CTA 3200 onto the market and in a few years followed with the 6200 PCCs.

A good web source is http://www.nycmodeltransit.org

This group sponsors an annual fall show that just happens to be coming up on two weeks, Saturday, October 20, at Rutgers University in New Brunswick, NJ. The website is http://www.nycmodeltransit.org/2012details.htm

The East Penn Traction Club also sponsors a huge specialty show every other year. Other manufacturers are MTS Imports specializing in brass (expensive). Island Model Works does N and HO scale, mostly plastic. The best local hobby outlet around here is Chicagoland Hobbies on N. Northwest Highway in Chicago. The train show Trainfest in Milwaukee at the State Fairgrounds in November features a lot of trolley layouts. I should be there with my HO scale Acela/Northeast Corridor layout.

David Harrison

[sw4400]

SE CTA Fan, is this your work?

[SE CTA Fan]

Yes, it is. Thanks for looking. The editor at Huffington Post Chicago (Joseph Erbentraut) contacted me after another blog, Gapers Block, was picked up by the 312 blog from Chicago Magazine's online site.

I've basically got one side of my Southport station platform done. I need to do the other side and make the stairs and station house. I'm also expanding around the other end of the layout, so that's delayed the Southport station somewhat.

Hopefully someone will see and be inspired to model the CTA also.

Thanks

Terry

[aaron]

6001-6200 also spent time on the "North-South" Line (Howard-Englewood/Jackson Park). Most were assigned to the Ravenswood, but many were on the North-South. Additionally, 6126-6130 were special high performance cars with flourescent lighting. They were equipped with trolley poles and ran as Evanston Express trains from Linden to the Loop. I don't recall any units (6001-6200) on Milwaukee Avenue after the last batch of 6000 cars arrived and went to Milwaukee...

[sw4400]

Yes, it is. Thanks for looking. The editor at Huffington Post Chicago (Joseph Erbentraut) contacted me after another blog, Gapers Block, was picked up by the 312 blog from Chicago Magazine's online site.

I've basically got one side of my Southport station platform done. I need to do the other side and make the stairs and station house. I'm also expanding around the other end of the layout, so that's delayed the Southport station somewhat.

Hopefully someone will see and be inspired to model the CTA also.

Thanks

Terry

Well let me say those renditions are awesome, Terry!!! They look very much like a scale model of our "L" rail system. You even did a superb job on the railcars. The only thing is the CTA logo on the 3200's, they never actually had one except for the new blue and white one with the white "CTA" logo. I have modeled the CTA to an extent... if you look under the CTA Paper Buses thread, you'll see a lot of my work. I have made the current bus fleet, some of the past bus fleet like the GM Fishbowls, Flyer D901A, M.A.N(both Articulated and Americana), the famous Frankenbus and even some New Flyer D40LFR's with imagined liveries.

[Busjack]

...I don't recall any units (6001-6200) on Milwaukee Avenue after the last batch of 6000 cars arrived and went to Milwaukee...

Turns out that's not correct. I remember some with window guards.

CERA 115 says (page 114) that 20 were on the WNW in 1975.

On pages 12-13, it states that that in 1975, window guards were installed on 6031-6046 and 6049-6052, and that window guards were removed, providing components for part of the 6031 group from 6491-6498 and 6505-6506.

6047 and 6048 are stated as then being retired and sent to the training center at the Lawndale barn.

[SE CTA Fan]

SW4400 - Thanks for the comments. I can't take credit for the actual trains ... those are all products of MTH.

They are not so accurate when it comes to paint schemes, someone didn't do a very good job on research.

I have:

A set of 3200's in a quasi Red, White and Blue, Spirit of Chicago scheme. Completely wrong on these.

A set of 3200's in stainless steel. As you mentioned, wrong CTA logo. But tough to mess up unpainted stainless steel.

A set of 6200's in Mercury Green and Croydon Cream. Pretty close on these

A set of 6200's in the Bicentennial. Pretty much wrong on these also.

But, they are close enough when you consider the alternative which really isn't anything. It is nice to just open the box and put them on the track ... I've got enough other stuff to do without having to paint the rolling stock and find/make decals.

Eventually, I might try repainting some of these for a more accurate look. The problem in that isn't the paint, but lack of suitable decals.

So, like everything, compromises needed to be made for the sake of sanity. It runs and looks OK from afar.

And, nice work on the bus models. I have one Corgi GM Fishbowl bus on the layout, unfortunately labeled for Cicero Ave where its pulling up to my Sheridan station, guess the driver got way lost.

Thanks Again

Terry

[See Tea Eh]

I have one Corgi GM Fishbowl bus on the layout, unfortunately labeled for Cicero Ave where its pulling up to my Sheridan station, guess the driver got way lost.

Just make a little paper sign and put it in the windshield, and it will look totally authentic.

[Busjack]

Just make a little paper sign and put it in the windshield, and it will look totally authentic.

I think that is more post-New Looks, mostly because flip dot signs on MANs didn't work. "East Terminal" was more typical of that day.

[i8itall4u]

"Additionally, 6126-6130 were special high performance cars with flourescent lighting."

6127-28 and 6129-30.