Pace contracting out routes 877 and 888

[Busjack]

There is a notice on the Active Bids Page for Fixed Route Express Bus Service on Pace Routes 877 and 888.

The solicitation says that the service will be operated using contractor provided OTRs. The contract is for 5 years starting June 9, 2013.

Originally these were contractor routes, but South has had them since 2000. The questions are:

• Don't the union contracts restrict contracting out work once it was assumed directly by a Pace division?
• Does the requirement that the contractor provide its own buses seriously decrease the need for Pace to "replace the leased buses for the I55 project," since 10 of the leased buses are now being used on these routes?

[artthouwill]

There is a notice on the Active Bids Page for Fixed Route Express Bus Service on Pace Routes 877 and 888.

The solicitation says that the service will be operated using contractor provided OTRs. The contract is for 5 years starting June 9, 2013.

Originally these were contractor routes, but South has had them since 2000. The questions are:

• Don't the union contracts restrict contracting out work once it was assumed directly by a Pace division?
• Does the requirement that the contractor provide its own buses seriously decrease the need for Pace to "replace the leased buses for the I55 project," since 10 of the leased buses are now being used on these routes?

Those are great questions. As far as the union contracts are concerned, I think that may vary from garage to garage based on each garage having different contracts and/or different bargaining unions or locals.

Perhaps Pace has determined the cost of motorcoaches are too prohibitive to invest into. I think this signals not awarding a contract for OTRs. Pace could either return some leased buses or sell 6900 - 6906. Juxtapose this to MTA getting 54 new MCI commuter coaches in addition to the Prevosts they already have.

Interesting that there is only a small pool of companies to bid, with Free Enterprise and Aries being the two early favorites. Perhaps Pioneer (Colonial's) sister (brother) company will bid along with Mid America, Treasured Tours and maybe Thomas Coach. One company to look out for is Executive Coach, an affiliate of Cardinal, Now that I think about it, Coach USA Indiana could bid too.

[Busjack]

Those are great questions. As far as the union contracts are concerned, I think that may vary from garage to garage based on each garage having different contracts and/or different bargaining unions or locals.

Perhaps Pace has determined the cost of motorcoaches are too prohibitive to invest into. I think this signals not awarding a contract for OTRs. Pace could either return some leased buses or sell 6900 - 6906. Juxtapose this to MTA getting 54 new MCI commuter coaches in addition to the Prevosts they already have.

Interesting that there is only a small pool of companies to bid, with Free Enterprise and Aries being the two early favorites. Perhaps Pioneer (Colonial's) sister (brother) company will bid along with Mid America, Treasured Tours and maybe Thomas Coach. One company to look out for is Executive Coach, an affiliate of Cardinal, Now that I think about it, Coach USA Indiana could bid too.

• Pace let the OTR requisition go over to "opened, not yet awarded," although the way things have gone, that probably doesn't mean mch (wasn't on yesterday's consent agenda). In any event, that still leaves what they intend to do for I90, and whether the 6900s are starting to reach their service lives (another 2 years).
• Again you left out Coach USA d/b/a Chicago Trolley and Double Decker, which a rider reported here was the Coach USA operating route 895.
• If Aries website is still correct, their motor coaches are not accessible, so that disqualifies them.

[MetroShadow]

Interesting that there is only a small pool of companies to bid, with Free Enterprise and Aries being the two early favorites. Perhaps Pioneer (Colonial's) sister (brother) company will bid along with Mid America, Treasured Tours and maybe Thomas Coach. One company to look out for is Executive Coach, an affiliate of Cardinal, Now that I think about it, Coach USA Indiana could bid too.

After the fiasco with the 600/06/16 a couple of years back, I doubt if colonial or pioneer will win (then again, that's different than them actually bidding)

[Busjack]

After the fiasco with the 600/06/16 a couple of years back, I doubt if colonial or pioneer will win (then again, that's different than them actually bidding)

In that past performance is undoubtedly a criterion, you are probably correct. In fact based on that experience, I'm surprised that Pace is going back to contractors.

But I assume that Pace is serious about this.*

__________

*As opposed to CTA. No announcement that they actually contracted out 74th Garage.

[artthouwill]

• Pace let the OTR requisition go over to "opened, not yet awarded," although the way things have gone, that probably doesn't mean mch (wasn't on yesterday's consent agenda). In any event, that still leaves what they intend to do for I90, and whether the 6900s are starting to reach their service lives (another 2 years).
• Again you left out Coach USA d/b/a Chicago Trolley and Double Decker, which a rider reported here was the Coach USA operating route 895.
• If Aries website is still correct, their motor coaches are not accessible, so that disqualifies them.

I purposely left off Trolley because they do not have motorcoaches and the operate 895 with a Pace owned cutaway.

Aries doesn't currently own accessible coaches, but certainly could purchase them for that contract if need be.

I suppose Pace could be exploring possibilities for the I 90 corridor. Obviously if shoulder riding is permitted like I55, Pace would want their own buses to opreate that.

[Busjack]

I purposely left off Trolley because they do not have motorcoaches and the operate 895 with a Pace owned cutaway.

Aries doesn't currently own accessible coaches, but certainly could purchase them for that contract if need be.

I suppose Pace could be exploring possibilities for the I 90 corridor. Obviously if shoulder riding is permitted like I55, Pace would want their own buses to opreate that.

Apparently Trolley has access to Coach USA's fleet, as they were running 855 between when you said Keeshin was out of business and Heritage took it over for the BOS project.

Also, Coach USA undoubtedly has more resources for coming up with 8 buses as opposed to Aries suddenly having to buy 8 for Pace to inspect before giving them the contract.

[artthouwill]

Apparently Trolley has access to Coach USA's fleet, as they were running 855 between when you said Keeshin was out of business and Heritage took it over for the BOS project.

Also, Coach USA undoubtedly has more resources for coming up with 8 buses as opposed to Aries suddenly having to buy 8 for Pace to inspect before giving them the contract.

Which is why I said Coach USA/Tri State would be a better fit considering the coach fleet AND drivers with air brake endorsed CDLs. Their buses can also be used in airport service while Trolley really couldn't use those buses anywhere else, which is why Keeshin is only doing Megabus. Otherwise they would still would be in the charter/contract business.

[Busjack]

Which is why I said Coach USA/Tri State would be a better fit considering the coach fleet AND drivers with air brake endorsed CDLs. Their buses can also be used in airport service while Trolley really couldn't use those buses anywhere else, which is why Keeshin is only doing Megabus. Otherwise they would still would be in the charter/contract business.

Apparently Coach USA owns all of them, so it doesn't make any difference.

In any event, the requisition says that the operator has to dedicate the 8 buses to this service, so they won't legally be able to use the buses anywhere else.

[artthouwill]

Apparently Coach USA owns all of them, so it doesn't make any difference.

In any event, the requisition says that the operator has to dedicate the 8 buses to this service, so they won't legally be able to use the buses anywhere else.

That only means only those 8 buses can be used for the service. You legally can't tell a motorcoach operator that they can't use their own vehicle fir their own operations outside of servicing a particular contract unlessit is stipulated in said contract. Every motorcoach operati I know that has had a Pace contract providing the operator's own equipment has used the buses it provides for Pace service on other revenue producing services when those vehicles weren't in Pace service. It is the equivalent of interlining and that is how motorcoach operators have been able to bid low for those contracts. The profit margin for running Pace service is very small at best, and as a stand alone contract is actually unprofitable if bidded too low. A demand to use a bus ONLY for a particular contract would justify a much higher premium. The only way Pace gets a good deal on bidding out these routes is if the motorcoach companies can generate revenu eith those coaches during off peak hours.

[Busjack]

That only means only those 8 buses can be used for the service. You legally can't tell a motorcoach operator that they can't use their own vehicle fir their own operations outside of servicing a particular contract unlessit is stipulated in said contract....

I guess it depends on what the contract means when it says "Contractor shall dedicate the required vehicles and spares to this service." Exhibit A page 6.

At a minimum, it isn't going to do any good if the vehicle is out on a charter call at 4:00 p.m.

[artthouwill]

I guess it depends on what the contract means when it says "Contractor shall dedicate the required vehicles and spares to this service." Exhibit A page 6.

At a minimum, it isn't going to do any good if the vehicle is out on a charter call at 4:00 p.m.

But certainly they should be able to use the bus between 9 a.m. and 3 p.m. for airport transfer or some short charter work and certainly on weekend when that Pace service doesn't operate. Gain, dedicating vehicles means only that a set amount of vehicles in a given fleet are to be used for the service. That does not infer exclusivity to that service. In other words, contractor can only use buses A,B,C,D,E,F,G,&H for Pace service. Contract can't use Bus J. Yet buses A thru H can still be used for contractor use during midday and weekend hours, but must be in service for Pace at the required times.

[Busjack]

The meeting agenda reflects action on the routes 674, 709, 711 and 715 contract* but nothing on the 877/888 one, which moved to "opened, not yet awarded" at the same time, so the 877/888 mystery lingers for at least another month.

__________

*Understandable, since the Lombard-Wheaton contract was last let to MV about 5 years ago.

[Busjack]

The meeting agenda reflects action on the routes 674, 709, 711 and 715 contract* but nothing on the 877/888 one, which moved to "opened, not yet awarded" at the same time, so the 877/888 mystery lingers for at least another month.

__________

*Understandable, since the Lombard-Wheaton contract was last let to MV about 5 years ago.

It is off the Awarded Bids page, including as being characterized as "opened, not yet awarded," so I guess this flyer* is no longer being considered.

So, the next development will be when the Axess buses show up. I've been noting on Webwatch that the number of leased 6910s is down, while the number of NABIs is up on these two routes.

_______

*Pun intended for 888.

[MetroShadow]

It is off the Awarded Bids page, including as being characterized as "opened, not yet awarded," so I guess this flyer* is no longer being considered.

So, the next development will be when the Axess buses show up. I've been noting on Webwatch that the number of leased 6910s is down, while the number of NABIs is up on these two routes.

_______

*Pun intended for 888.

I'll bet some form of food* that they'll be around next week.

* Just had wisdom teeth surgery, so this might be a sucker bet.

[BusHunter]

It is off the Awarded Bids page, including as being characterized as "opened, not yet awarded," so I guess this flyer* is no longer being considered.

So, the next development will be when the Axess buses show up. I've been noting on Webwatch that the number of leased 6910s is down, while the number of NABIs is up on these two routes.

_______

*Pun intended for 888.

There is a flyer on Pace buses that says that the 855/755 will be expanding service soon. So I'm thinking that the new Axess' buses will somehow be tied up to that expansion. Hopefully they then can get rid of these leased buses with no destination signs. (I've seen up to #6925.)

[Busjack]

There is a flyer on Pace buses that says that the 855/755 will be expanding service soon. So I'm thinking that the new Axess' buses will somehow be tied up to that expansion. Hopefully they then can get rid of these leased buses with no destination signs. (I've seen up to #6925.)

In that the 6920s are going higher, I would tend to doubt that.* My betting is that they would be getting rid of the leased buses at South, and the Axess buses are going south, for either this or 924-925.

The Contract Awards page does indicate an award to MCI for $7.5 million, which would seem to be 15 buses, too. Don't know if the notice to proceed has been given on that, but it does say that the award was as of 4/17.

*That would also be reinforced by twy's citing of the Facebook picture showing 6923. If Pace intended to run Axess buses, one would have been at that press conference, one would think.

[BusHunter]

In that the 6920s are going higher, I would tend to doubt that.* My betting is that they would be getting rid of the leased buses at South, and the Axess buses are going south, for either this or 924-925.

The Contract Awards page does indicate an award to MCI for $7.5 million, which would seem to be 15 buses, too. Don't know if the notice to proceed has been given on that, but it does say that the award was as of 4/17.

*That would also be reinforced by twy's citing of the Facebook picture showing 6923. If Pace intended to run Axess buses, one would have been at that press conference, one would think.

With them contracting out 877 and 888 and the #6385's being expressway buses the 755/855 is the only place for them to go. As far as a photo, I doubt any of the buses were here on 4/17. (just in california) It's my understanding that the #924-925 are only temporary routes. But with #6385 unwrapped (so far) where else could they go? #757, #606, #610, #600 maybe?

[Busjack]

With them contracting out 877 and 888 and the #6385's being expressway buses the 755/855 is the only place for them to go....

But you missed my original point today that as far as contracting out goes, the Pace procurement pages indicate that that is dead.