Ventra - Feedback and Updates

[Busjack]

AFAIK, no other transit system has a "bring your own media" fare system.

MTA tried out one with Citibank. Apparently the two pilots were not worth scaling up, at least yet. (Metro Magazine)

There may be a point that CTA might not have had a model to avoid the "not invented here" syndrome, but if in fact CTA was the first, it is not a good sign that incompetents were the first to try to implement it.

[owine]

MTA tried out one with Citibank. Apparently the two pilots were not worth scaling up. (Metro Magazine)

There may be a point that CTA might not have had a model to avoid the "not invented here" syndrome, but if in fact CTA was the first, it is not a good sign that incompetents were the first to try to implement it.

MTA's was just a PAYG pilot program, they never did anything with loading transit accounts or passes onto cards to my knowledge.

[Busjack]

MTA's was just a PAYG pilot program, they never did anything with loading transit accounts or passes onto cards to my knowledge.

Still proves my point that it shouldn't have been left to incompetents to try to invent the wheel.

Update: Your knowledge may not be complete, as the cited Metro Magazine article said that UTA was transitioning passes onto electronic media.

[owine]

Looks like they do have contactless payment, but not an open system. But would you prefer their system? They charge a $3 fee for issuing the card and don't offer a refund for it. They also don't let you load credit or passes onto your own debit/credit card, they only let you use your card to pay a cash fare (admittedly Ventra does not do this yet fully, but it is very obvious this is in the pipeline). And at least until March, they are giving a discount to people who use transit value effectively making the cash fare more expensive.

[Busjack]

Looks like they do have contactless payment, but not an open system. But would you prefer their system?...

In that I am not in Utah, a moot point.

It doesn't defend the mess CTA is making. For instance, the Metro Magazine article points out the cost of manufacturing the contactless cards, again a cost avoided if using an existing bank card were encouraged. Someone spent money to send 200 some Ventra cards to the reported people, and you know that that eventually comes out of the farepayers' pockets, if not directly.

[brownliner]

[*]At McDonald's you aren't given anything extra, but they don't charge you a service charge to get a Mocha Frappe with your burger if you pay only by using the Blink Card. Like I said, show me any merchant (other than I described) that has a differential price policy depending on whether you pay cash or use plastic (again assuming that they accept plastic for all transactions).

The mexican place I have lunch at occasionally gives a discount for paying cash. The antique store I bought my dresser from gave me a discount for paying cash. I've been in bars that charged different prices if you paid with a credit card. A couple commercial suppliers I deal with give a discount if you give them a check or cash. A number of hotel chains and airlines give discounts if you use the right credit card. When I was a self-employed consultant, I gave a discount if you paid at the time I provided service. In practice, that amounted to a discount for using a credit card. (The alternative was sending an invoice, and waiting 30 to 120 days for a check.)

Edit: Related, the NY MTA charges a buck for a new metro card, and gives a 5% bonus for loading more than $10 at at time. (Bonus used to be as much as 20%). They also charge a 25 cent surcharge for a single use ticket.

[jajuan]

Actually Busjack what I'm not interested in is a lot of complaining and negativity just for the sake of having the ability in doing so. At least Kevin, Bushunter, sw and a few others can say they've actually tried out the system. A few ran into some glitches that were fixed except for Bushunter's pass expiring a couple hours early. There have been concrete suggestions for how to get around some of the other stuff. But you I have yet yo see mentioning you tried things out and if something came up, give usable advice for how you got around it. Yet you're probably the loudest critic latching on to mishaps that happened to others to feed a bias you already held onto from the very start.

[Busjack]

... Yet you're probably the loudest critic latching on to mishaps that happened to others to feed a bias you already held onto from the very start.

Then go to the CTA Tattler and really get an education from the commenters there.

[jajuan]

Then go to the CTA Tattler and really get an education from the commenters there.

And rehash the old news that they botched the mailing and activation aspect which every one agreed that they did? No thanks and no need.

[Amtrak41]

One should not have to read Tattler and chicagobus.org to figure out how Ventra should work.

[owine]

From the Tattler himself:

I got my Ventra card in the mail today and activated it in less than five minutes!

It's really not that hard if you follow the Ventra instructions to the letter. And you have the email they sent weeks ago.

[Amtrak41]

And those of us who had trouble can't read or follow instructions ? I don't think so.

[MetroShadow]

From the Tattler himself:

In fairness, there's a learning curve.

Those who have both to start with, those who are highly competent despite the implementation failures, those who want the ordeal to be over despite the ineptitude of the process, those who are lazy, those who can't read or follow directions, those who are technologically stumbling, and those who hate change.

[Busjack]

In fairness, there's a learning curve.

Those who have both to start with, those who are highly competent despite the implementation failures, those who want the ordeal to be over despite the ineptitude of the process, those who are lazy, those who can't read or follow directions, those who are technologically stumbling, and those who hate change.

There's that, but similarly there is also the debate whether healthcare.gov is overburdened or improperly designed.

But the issue isn't only whether there are problems dealing with activation. The issues I raised were the deceptive manner CTA was assessing charges against the transit account, and how I didn't believe this was truly an open system. Somebody asks me what I consider to be an open system, and I answered.

In any event, if the complaints didn't have substance, Claypool wouldn't have said that the cutoff on mag cards has to be delayed until customer service is fixed, and Steele wouldn't have argued that the charges on the class action plaintiff's account were for legitimate transit service, instead of saying that the lawsuit did not state a cause of action.*

_____________

*Of course, Steele should have been like any other defendant and say "we don't comment on pending litigation."

[jajuan]

One should not have to read Tattler and chicagobus.org to figure out how Ventra should work.

I'm sorry but that's a foolish stance given it's a new system. And to that I say that's someone who has no right to complain when there's a mishap. For one thing how do you expect to know what fare media is available if you don't read it from the source?

[jajuan]

And those of us who had trouble can't read or follow instructions ? I don't think so.

Now that one I'll agree with you because we already established you were one of those who fell victim to the botch up in getting mailed a card to replace a Chicago Card or CCP.

[owine]

And those of us who had trouble can't read or follow instructions ? I don't think so.

Well, you were an edge case as has been established.

[Busjack]

Well, you were an edge case as has been established.

What do you mean by that?

[Amtrak41]

healthcare.gov was designed by CGI, has gone 6 X over budget, and was recently fired by Ontario in not making an on-time deliverable.

Ventra should be easy to use and as safe as getting a new credit card in the mail. It is not.

The nonsense of e-mailing you an user-id and password, then activation, registration, and obtaining Access Code in the midst of it was ridiculous.

Computer applications are supposed to be customer-friendly. This process is confusing and convoluted. It is not in my job description to spend a lot of time to learn it.

[jajuan]

healthcare.gov was designed by CGI, has gone 6 X over budget, and was recently fired by Ontario in not making an on-time deliverable.

Ventra should be easy to use and as safe as getting a new credit card in the mail. It is not.

The nonsense of e-mailing you an user-id and password, then activation, registration, and obtaining Access Code in the midst of it was ridiculous.

Computer applications are supposed to be customer-friendly. This process is confusing and convoluted. It is not in my job description to spend a lot of time to learn it.

And again didn't we already establish you fell victim to the mailing botch up mess, part of which being you got your card delivered so many weeks late that you may have forgotten the aspects of the email that explained about what to do about activation, registration and the access code? So for you and anyone else in your position who fell victim to that screwup, of course things are going to feel convoluted because for one thing you got steps missing on what to do because you didn't receive everything on time. Outside of that whole thing about making no effort to learn how things work makes little sense to do and puts a person in the no right to complain position.

[BusHunter]

The guy I was talking about before got double charged by ventra again. I advised him to go back to transit cards. Maybe by Nov-Dec Ventra will actually have a hotline/office where someone answers the phone. LOL!!

[Busjack]

The guy I was talking about before got double charged by ventra again. I advised him to go back to transit cards. Maybe by Nov-Dec Ventra will actually have a hotline/office where someone answers the phone. LOL!!

I'm sure someone here is going to tell him that he should have known that he was going to be double charged; just part of the learning curve.

[owine]

What do you mean by that?

An edge case is just a case that doesn't happen often. They are to be expected any time there is a brand new product rolled out as you cannot test every situation and combination imaginable.

healthcare.gov was designed by CGI, has gone 6 X over budget, and was recently fired by Ontario in not making an on-time deliverable.

Ventra should be easy to use and as safe as getting a new credit card in the mail. It is not.

The nonsense of e-mailing you an user-id and password, then activation, registration, and obtaining Access Code in the midst of it was ridiculous.

Computer applications are supposed to be customer-friendly. This process is confusing and convoluted. It is not in my job description to spend a lot of time to learn it.

I thought your issue was your card being deactivated after you activated it properly?

[Amtrak41]

No,, it was the difficulty of activation.

Another one of the confusions was the Debit Card portion was active, yet Transit Account was completely invisible, and said simply Account Status : Closed at the top, whatever that meant. How is one supposed to know there is a Transit button when it was even not present ?

In a customer-friendly environment, the Transit Account button should have been faded out, and a description in layman's terms of what "Closed" meant. Again, I should not need a user manual to work the system.

[owine]

Noticed green stickers on Ventra readers in rail stations over the weekend, but not on the buses I rode.