Ventra - Feedback and Updates

[busfan2847]

I overheard someone on the yellow line say that new york and another city got rid of their smart card system, due to associated problems. (Sounds like ny's was a bank problem)I looked at the new york times and that's a true statement. They hope to reorganize and get a smart card plan in 2-5 years. So CTA can scuttle Ventra if it chooses. That may be what happens if this becomes a legal fight.

They did not really start!

Rather than having their own cards they were going to rely on their customers to use there own contactless bankcards but the US banks have not issued the cards widely enough. (In fact one of my cards that had contactless last time has just been reissued without it). So it was a non-starter.

( http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/25/nyregion/after-mta-setbacks-no-swipe-fare-cards-are-still-stuck-in-the-future.html?_r=0

[owine]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-cta-ventra-glitches-mostly-gone-but-delays-remain-20131204,0,536043.story

Per this article, the contract requires average processing of 0.5 seconds while the latest metrics have the average at 0.6 seconds presently for train stations.

[Busjack]

They did not really start!

Rather than having their own cards they were going to rely on their customers to use there own contactless bankcards but the US banks have not issued the cards widely enough. (In fact one of my cards that had contactless last time has just been reissued without it). So it was a non-starter.

( http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/25/nyregion/after-mta-setbacks-no-swipe-fare-cards-are-still-stuck-in-the-future.html?_r=0

The other thing noted (in this Metro Magazine reference, which accords with my understanding at the time), is that MTA ran two tests, one with Citibank.* The assumption I made from that was that one needed a Citi card, not realizing that the bank could clear transactions on other bank cards.

But I agree that it didn't really start, and contrast the two tests to CTA going hog wild without much of any testing.

___________

*It also appears that MTA never itself got into the chip card business, as the MetroCard equivalent to the CCP appears to be a magnetic stripe card. Is that correct?

[owine]

The other thing noted (in this Metro Magazine reference, which accords with my understanding at the time), is that MTA ran two tests, one with Citibank.* The assumption I made from that was that one needed a Citi card, not realizing that the bank could clear transactions on other bank cards.

But I agree that it didn't really start, and contrast the two tests to CTA going hog wild without much of any testing.

___________

*It also appears that MTA never itself got into the chip card business, as the MetroCard equivalent to the CCP appears to be a magnetic stripe card. Is that correct?

I don't believe the CitiBank pilot program ever expanded beyond Citi cards at the time. That must have been at least 5 years ago.

The system BusHunter, busfan and the NYT refer to was when they imported the former head of London transit and were looking to undertake an equivalent Oyster/Ventra Card project to completely replace the MetroCard system.

And yes, there are only magnetic strip cards in New York. The MetroCard system is terrible which is why I can't understand everyone clamoring to go back to magnetic strip cards here in Chicago.

[Busjack]

...

And yes, there are only magnetic strip cards in New York. The MetroCard system is terrible which is why I can't understand everyone clamoring to go back to magnetic strip cards here in Chicago.

I don't think it is that. I think most go along with Kevin's viewpoint that Cubic used a lack of chips as justification for foisting a mess on us, especially given the record of other Cubic failures noted by Gapers Block and then by CBS2.

If nothing else, MetroCard demonstrates that the equivalent of CCP can be done without any chips at all.

[BusHunter]

They did not really start!

Rather than having their own cards they were going to rely on their customers to use there own contactless bankcards but the US banks have not issued the cards widely enough. (In fact one of my cards that had contactless last time has just been reissued without it). So it was a non-starter.

( http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/25/nyregion/after-mta-setbacks-no-swipe-fare-cards-are-still-stuck-in-the-future.html?_r=0

Interesting, so what do people without bank accounts do?

In other news, the Redeye mentioned yesterday Ventra is calling ex Chicago Card users who have not registered their cards. If the CTA transit cards are still in use until further notice, then why are they soliciting Chicago Card users at all? Isn't the future of Ventra in doubt or on probation?

[Busjack]

Interesting, so what do people without bank accounts do?

....

Use MetroCard (a magnetic stripe card). Read above.

In other news, the Redeye mentioned yesterday Ventra is calling ex Chicago Card users who have not registered their cards. If the CTA transit cards are still in use until further notice, then why are they soliciting Chicago Card users at all? Isn't the future of Ventra in doubt or on probation?

The calling isn't new. The news seemed to be that the contractor hired to do the calling was doing a survey why the holders of the old cards hadn't switched yet.

And, obviously, the point is to overcome objections of those who were unable to or refused to convert at this point, so that CTA can shut down the legacy equipment eventually. Just not Dec. 15, like originally scheduled.

[BusHunter]

Use MetroCard (a magnetic stripe card). Read above.

Yeah, but wasn't the metrocard system going to abolished similar to here?

[Busjack]

Yeah, but wasn't the metrocard system going to abolished similar to here?

Apparently the tests didn't pass, so if MTA intends to replace MetroCard, it hasn't shown its hand.

[brownliner]

 

Apparently the tests didn't pass, so if MTA intends to replace MetroCard, it hasn't shown its hand.

I'm pretty sure there never was even a real plan to get rid of metrocard. (Other than a general "magnetic cards are awful" sentiment that's shared by everyone who has to deal with lots of them.)

Incidentally, the MTA started charging a buck for a metrocard earlier this year. (It's essentially identical to the CTA magnetic media.) And there's a single ride card, with a (25 cent?) surcharge, which has to be used within an hour or two of purchase, and which doesn't qualify for a transfer. (Ventra ticket not such a bad deal, comparatively.)

[Amtrak41]

If you turn in an expired Metrocard for renewal, you don't pay the buck.

The buck fee is there to avoid litter all over the stations and buses and well as to screw tourists. Some people make a living picking them up and scanning for any value, and they sometimes win.

We don't have day passes anymore either.

[Busjack]

Back home, Tribune had a misleading article lead about Metra getting on board with Ventra, but it is the same as before; i.e. letting riders buy existing tickets with transit value; not an open fare system. Metra is sure not going to enclosed fare areas or turnstiles.

[Amtrak41]

Unless METRA turns into SEPTA, they can't. All they can do is e-ticketing like parts of NJT, LIRR, and MN have.

METRA Electric/IC was run that way for many years, but had to take it down due to discrimination issues, among other things.

[Busjack]

The Tribune story from last night was amended to indicate that besides CTA buses, there were outages on Pace buses. With the scattered nature of the CTA routes previously cited, plus Pace now being involved, I doubt that it involves the garage by garage software upgrade or the radio system (which differs on CTA and Pace). Looks like the only garage that escaped was FG.

[jajuan]

The Tribune story from last night was amended to indicate that besides CTA buses, there were outages on Pace buses. With the scattered nature of the CTA routes previously cited, plus Pace now being involved, I doubt that it involves the garage by garage software upgrade or the radio system (which differs on CTA and Pace). Looks like the only garage that escaped was FG.

It would explain why I and other Ventra riders kept getting stop screens on the #9 yet my card worked just fine as usual on the #22 yesterday. And this was actually shortly after 12:30 in the afternoon that I ran into a nonfunctioning reader on the #9, hours before Hilkevitch reports the outages started. And my experience with the Ashland bus shows that the outage may have gone beyond the routes reported in the Tribune story.

[Amtrak41]

"All CTA buses now upgraded to process payments faster"

http://voices.suntimes.com/news/transportation-news/how-fast-is-your-ventra-tap-all-cta-buses-now-upgraded-to-process-payments-faster/

[Amtrak41]

"CTA: Ventra performance is improving"

http://www.suntimes.com/24355205-761/cta-ventra-performance-is-improving.html

[Busjack]

"CTA: Ventra performance is improving"

http://www.suntimes.com/24355205-761/cta-ventra-performance-is-improving.html

The only impression I have is that a different problem each day in the media has stopped.

[jajuan]

I'd have to say though that in some ways the media has been a bit overzealous in jumping over each other in a race to broadcast every malfunction and problem to the point of presenting things that were relatively minor compared to some of the much larger problems that were out there like months going by before Chicago Card and CCP got their new Ventra cards if they even got them at all, the glitch that had some riders getting endless numbers of cards mailed or cases of the wrong card getting dinged among some who may have been carrying their wallets in a back or purse.

[Amtrak41]

In I-T terms, they "tested it in production".

Not paying Cubic for the time being proved productive.

[Busjack]

In I-T terms, they "tested it in production".

Not paying Cubic for the time being proved productive.

I suppose it took Microsoft about 16 years to "test [Windows] under production," before mostly purging the BSOD, but that seems to work only for monopolies. Maybe "testing under production" is why Dominick's (Safeway's Illinois subsidiary) is now going out of business, after "right sizing" the business twice.

After about 8 years, maybe CTA learned something from the NABI episode, where it paid out about $87 million on a $102 million contract before it figured out it got unmerchantable junk. Also, despite what Pace minutes implied, it appears that neither TA paid for the equipment, but will pay a monthly processing fee.

I'd have to say though that in some ways the media has been a bit overzealous in jumping over each other in a race to broadcast every malfunction and problem ...

Hard to tell if that's the case, given such things as (1) initially CTA sent out Tammy Chase to lie to paper it over until that no longer worked and Claypool was directed to admit the problems, 2 days after the aborted closing of the transit vending machines,* and (2) it is questionable whether the press got everything, in that, for instance, the only problem the Tribune reported with regard to the Transit Benefits Program was that some employers were able to get into other employers' accounts, but the CTA Tattler was rife with postings that either employers couldn't figure out how to schedule the deductions, or when they did, employees' $100 suddenly vanished until CTA finally decided to send out magnetic stripe passes.

____________

*Note that after the software upgrades, including adding the obvious step of "Processing..." double charging is supposedly cured, but originally, CTA said it didn't happen. I wonder if CTA settled the class action plaintiff's account yet.

[Busjack]

In the meantime, Channel 7.1 is running a crawl to check the expiration dates on magnetic stripe cards since they still expire Dec. 15 and won't work.

Olaf appears to have more details here on the CTA Tattler.

[Busjack]

If you want a really bizarre story that hasn't hit the media, check out SpinyNorman on the CTA Tattler.

[flossman]

I was a bit miffed at my Ventra card the other day. I know I'm an out-of-stater, but I go to Chicago on a very regular basis, and was excited I could put a day pass on my card without stopping at a Walgreens or Dominick's. Sadly, the machine wouldn't put a pass on my card, despite it being used before. I settled for one of the Ventra tickets, which worked just fine, but I'd much rather have my card, you know, work as advertised.

[Busjack]

I was a bit miffed at my Ventra card the other day. I know I'm an out-of-stater, but I go to Chicago on a very regular basis, and was excited I could put a day pass on my card without stopping at a Walgreens or Dominick's. Sadly, the machine wouldn't put a pass on my card, despite it being used before. I settled for one of the Ventra tickets, which worked just fine, but I'd much rather have my card, you know, work as advertised.

The day pass issue may be related to that the paper ones were only available at places to "accommodate" tourists. I don't know if the Ventra one is so limited or the system was fouled up, or if you were even using a Ventra card, as opposed to trying to put something on a bank card that had not been registered as a transit account.

Besides again proving that the system isn't "open," the settling for a Ventra ticket indicates that one is engaged in a lottery depending on the fare medium. The day pass is a ripoff at $10 unless you are going to be on the CTA all day (need at least 4 linked trips, as opposed to how CTA counts transfers on unlinked trips), but if you were messing with a Blink bank card and didn't intend to transfer, using it the same as cash would have been better.

This only reinforces my view that instead of encouraging occasional riders, CTA's intent was to stick it to them.

BTW, Walgreens and Dominick's are not Ventra agents; usually they are CVS and some Jewels. Dominick's is going to be out of business by Dec. 28, although the way the store near me was cleared out on the first day of the 50% off sale, I don't think even that long.