Around the Horn Posted December 16, 2013 Report Share Posted December 16, 2013 After taking a look at NYCMTA's Late Night Subway Map,I realized that Chicago may benefit from having nite service on all the "L" lines,so I came up with this proposal. Red,Blue stay as normal Green Operates full route Brown Kimball-Belmont for connection to Red Orange Midway-Roosevelt for connection to Red,Green Yellow Dempster-Howard for Red Purple Linden-Howard for Red Pink 54-Cermak to Ashland for Green If any of you have any idea of your own or edits to mine please post them here.Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amtrak41 Posted December 16, 2013 Report Share Posted December 16, 2013 Did they kill the Evanston Branch's over-nite "N" bus ? If so, does that make it a harder business case to run a Purple Shuttle all night ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted December 16, 2013 Report Share Posted December 16, 2013 After taking a look at NYCMTA's Late Night Subway Map,I realized that Chicago may benefit from having nite service on all the "L" lines,so I came up with this proposal. Red,Blue stay as normal Green Operates full route Brown Kimball-Belmont for connection to Red Orange Midway-Roosevelt for connection to Red,Green Yellow Dempster-Howard for Red Purple Linden-Howard for Red Pink 54-Cermak to Ashland for Green If any of you have any idea of your own or edits to mine please post them here.Thank you! Basically, your idea died 20 years ago. It is clear from those cutbacks that rail service is sustainable only if there is sufficient demand. For instance the N201 bus (substitution for Purple Line) was canceled because there wasn't even enough passenger demand to maintain a vanpool. Instituting night service is even more expensive now, because in the old days, the motorman or conductor would collect the fares, but now all stations would have to have Customer Assistants 24/7. Essentially, you said, bring back all Owl service. Unless you have survey data proving that it would be the most efficient way of serving actual ridership demand in those communities (compared to say, the extension of the N60 bus), or there is some traffic generation center not being served, you have just proposed a meaningless exercise. Did they kill the Evanston Branch's over-nite "N" bus ? If so, does that make it a harder business case to run a Purple Shuttle all night ? As I was typing as you posted. That proved that Evanston Hospital was not even an adequate traffic generator. If the route couldn't support two bus drivers, it would not support 1 or 2 L motorman plus 8 CAs. Put in the same category the recent cutback of N20, which no longer serves the Green Line past Austin. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artthouwill Posted December 16, 2013 Report Share Posted December 16, 2013 After taking a look at NYCMTA's Late Night Subway Map,I realized that Chicago may benefit from having nite service on all the "L" lines,so I came up with this proposal. Red,Blue stay as normal Green Operates full route Brown Kimball-Belmont for connection to Red Orange Midway-Roosevelt for connection to Red,Green Yellow Dempster-Howard for Red Purple Linden-Howard for Red Pink 54-Cermak to Ashland for Green If any of you have any idea of your own or edits to mine please post them here.Thank you! The City of New York's population is more than the population of the entire 8 county Chicagoland area (6 counties in Illinois plus Lake and Poter counties in Indiana). New York is not much bigger than Chicago in size, but with the population it has, there is very high density in the Big Apple. If you study the NY map, not all lines run all night. The express trains don't run all night at all, and because their rail system is so extensive, there are OWL routes that a few routes take to give coverage to areas that would otherwise not have owl service at all. Once upon a time, the Red, Blue (including what is now the Pink Line), and Green Lines had owl service. The Pink Line portion of the Blue Line lost weekend and overnight service at one time, the Green Line had 24/7 before being shut down for two years for reconstruction. It reopened with 24/7 service, but due to low ridership, it was cut. The Red Line and the Blue Line parallel its service. The Purple owl service was replaced with the N201 which got canceled also. What this proves is that New York is truly the city that never sleeps. Also, New Yorkers realize that the fastest and best mode of transportation is the subway as opposed to our overly cluttered expressways. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amtrak41 Posted December 16, 2013 Report Share Posted December 16, 2013 < If you study the NY map, not all lines run all night. > Actually, ever physical route has service all night, with some duplicative lettered/numbered routes not running, though the Nassau St Line has no weekend service south of Chambers St. In NYC, when a local service goes to sleep over the night or the weekend, the express becomes the local. If that policy existed in Chicago, the Red line would stop at Wellington and Diversey when the Brown Line doesn't run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted December 16, 2013 Report Share Posted December 16, 2013 ... What this proves is that New York is truly the city that never sleeps. Also, New Yorkers realize that the fastest and best mode of transportation is the subway as opposed to our overly cluttered expressways. The "never sleeps" is undoubtedly the point. Owl in Chicago is usually defined as 1 a.m. to 4 a.m. Green and Orange generally correspond to the general definition.Pink Line is 1 to 5. Purple Line is generally 2 to 4:30. Brown Line gets an extra hour to Belmont. Even if someone has to work night shift, that's usually 11:00 p.m.-7:00 a.m. or midnight to 8:00 a.m., and hence those workers can get to work. Thus, the only ones inconvenienced are those that have to get to work at 3:00 a.m., and pretty much UPS had to pay for buses to take care of that problem. But the NY issue (at least in Manhattan) would be crowded artierials, as opposed to expressways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronMaidenfan Posted December 17, 2013 Report Share Posted December 17, 2013 I wound mind the Loop shuttle that ran around the loop way back then. What ever happened to that service? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artthouwill Posted December 17, 2013 Report Share Posted December 17, 2013 I wound mind the Loop shuttle that ran around the loop way back then. What ever happened to that service? The Orange, Brown, Purple, and.Pink Lines all circle the Loop. No need to duplicate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted December 17, 2013 Report Share Posted December 17, 2013 I wound mind the Loop shuttle that ran around the loop way back then. What ever happened to that service? The Orange, Brown, Purple, and.Pink Lines all circle the Loop. No need to duplicate. True, but it appears that the Loop Shuttle was killed way before that (Chicago Transit and Railfan indicates 1977). Its only justification was that there was no other direct way to get from Wells St. to Clark and Lake to connect with the Lake-Dan Ryan train, which ran on the current Green Line routing on the Loop. I'm not sure what riders did until the Orange Line provided that function in 1993, but I suppose one rode the other way to Adams-Wabash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artthouwill Posted December 17, 2013 Report Share Posted December 17, 2013 True, but it appears that the Loop Shuttle was killed way before that (Chicago Transit and Railfan indicates 1977). Its only justification was that there was no other direct way to get from Wells St. to Clark and Lake to connect with the Lake-Dan Ryan train, which ran on the current Green Line routing on the Loop. I'm not sure what riders did until the Orange Line provided that function in 1993, but I suppose one rode the other way to Adams-Wabash. If there were any problem back then, it would be getting from the Wabash or Lake side to a Wells or Van Buren station, which the old Loop shuttle wouid've taken care of since it ran on the outer tracks. At least during rush hour, the Evanston Express solved that problem by transfering at Adams/Wabash (from the south) or Clark/Lake (from the west). I suppose there wasn't any ridership during nonpeak hours to justify keeping it and the rush hour service was duplicated by the EE. Now with the Orange and Pink Lines, all of the Loop stations are connected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted December 17, 2013 Report Share Posted December 17, 2013 If there were any problem back then, it would be getting from the Wabash or Lake side to a Wells or Van Buren station, which the old Loop shuttle wouid've taken care of since it ran on the outer tracks. At least during rush hour, the Evanston Express solved that problem by transfering at Adams/Wabash (from the south) or Clark/Lake (from the west). I suppose there wasn't any ridership during nonpeak hours to justify keeping it and the rush hour service was duplicated by the EE. Now with the Orange and Pink Lines, all of the Loop stations are connected. I have the feeling that most anyone who wanted to get from Wabash to Wells walked. I used the shuttle for the intended purpose when I worked on LaSalle and lived on the south side,* and I'm sure that it was no coincidence that the Loop Shuttle started on the same day that the Dan Ryan opened and Lake trains ceased circling the loop. Update: But based on that, I guess it did accommodate those coming in on Lake or Dan Ryan who wanted to end at Quincy or thereabouts. __ *Although at some point, IC monthlies were a better deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTRSP1900-CTA3200 Posted December 17, 2013 Report Share Posted December 17, 2013 After taking a look at NYCMTA's Late Night Subway Map,I realized that Chicago may benefit from having nite service on all the "L" lines,so I came up with this proposal. Red,Blue stay as normal Green Operates full route ... ... If any of you have any idea of your own or edits to mine please post them here.Thank you! I like the idea of the 24/7 Green Line. But with the Red Line south of Roosevelt, and the potential connection to the Orange Line too, does it need to go beyond that? I have no idea what overnight buses run south of Roosevelt in the area of the Green Line, but the Red Line is somewhat nearby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted December 17, 2013 Report Share Posted December 17, 2013 I like the idea of the 24/7 Green Line. But with the Red Line south of Roosevelt, and the potential connection to the Orange Line too, does it need to go beyond that? I have no idea what overnight buses run south of Roosevelt in the area of the Green Line, but the Red Line is somewhat nearby. Only bus is N4. However, the argument has been made that other than the 5 month Red Line outage, the south Green Line isn't that necessary at any time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted December 19, 2013 Report Share Posted December 19, 2013 The City of New York's population is more than the population of the entire 8 county Chicagoland area (6 counties in Illinois plus Lake and Poter counties in Indiana). New York is not much bigger than Chicago in size, but with the population it has, there is very high density in the Big Apple. If you study the NY map, not all lines run all night. The express trains don't run all night at all, and because their rail system is so extensive, there are OWL routes that a few routes take to give coverage to areas that would otherwise not have owl service at all. Once upon a time, the Red, Blue (including what is now the Pink Line), and Green Lines had owl service. The Pink Line portion of the Blue Line lost weekend and overnight service at one time, the Green Line had 24/7 before being shut down for two years for reconstruction. It reopened with 24/7 service, but due to low ridership, it was cut. The Red Line and the Blue Line parallel its service. The Purple owl service was replaced with the N201 which got canceled also. What this proves is that New York is truly the city that never sleeps. Also, New Yorkers realize that the fastest and best mode of transportation is the subway as opposed to our overly cluttered expressways. To add onto to what was already mentioned about the Green Line, the Lake Street leg actually saw some cutbacks before the south end did. Owl service on the Lake portion was cut to every 60 mins west of Clark/Lake just like the separate Englewood and Jackson Pk branches already were. (The 60 minutes on the branches was already a cutback that was a result from the February 1993 rail realignment swap that saw the Dan Ryan L connected to the Howard line and the Englewood/Jackson Pk lines connected to the Lake Street L. Before that realignment. owl service on those branches was every 30 mins to match the 15 min owl intervals of the Howard L) Only the segment between Clark/Lake and Garfield saw 30 min overnight headways before the whole Green Line route saw owl service cut completely.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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