RTA Governance

[Busjack]

As the late Gorilla Monsoon would say Carole Brown is no where to be found.It seen like Fitzgerald made point is get the politics out of hiring.

If Lanny Poffo would have been there .He could have done a poem with the battle between Claypool and Gates.

As Moose Cholak would have said "I'm from Moosehead Maine," not 100th and Ewing.

Or maybe not, since he owned a bar there.

[jajuan]

Two things I mentioned often are obvious here:

• Everyone is trying to protect his own turf, especially Gates and Claypool.
• "Meanwhile, other leaders told the panel the real problem facing transit is a shortfall in operating and capital funding." When did we hear that before, like before the 2008 tax increase? Unless any of these agencies figure out how to sell a service for which the customers are willing to pay, funding only means taxes. And, of course, the main one of the choir to which they are preaching is the grand dame of the "funding" appeal, Carole Brown.

Now, maybe the panel will get some input from outside the 4 entities that have a vested interest in the current mess. But I'm not betting on it.

Update: The Tribune version indicated even a bigger percentage of the time was spent about funding, not cleaning up the inefficiency. If the RFID readers don't raid your wallet, the legislature is about to, again. At least the Tribune one had Gates mentioning how NY MTA and SEPTA work.

It strikes me that the funding question would probably not keep coming up as often or at the very least would be more convincing if we were paying for one streamlined agency instead of the inefficient, convoluted mess of operating four agencies to provide service for one region. All four have become bastions for the political lackeys of the politicians running the governments of Chicago, the suburbs, the six counties of the region and Illinois. And one or more of them often get run by boobs with no real transportation experience. Gates may have made the comment in jest as a sarcastic communication that he's really only protecting his turf, he is correct that the panel should really be seeking to merge and streamline the four boards into one or not bother wasting the taxpayers' time and money.

[Busjack]

It strikes me that the funding question would probably not keep coming up as often or at the very least would be more convincing if we were paying for one streamlined agency instead of the inefficient, convoluted mess of operating four agencies to provide service for one region. All four have become bastions for the political lackeys of the politicians running the governments of Chicago, the suburbs, the six counties of the region and Illinois. And one or more of them often get run by boobs with no real transportation experience. Gates may have made the comment in jest as a sarcastic communication that he's really only protecting his turf, he is correct that the panel should really be seeking to merge and streamline the four boards into one or not bother wasting the taxpayers' time and money.

That's certainly true.

The Sun-Times article had more about Pace protecting its turf, although there it actually had to do with service. It also had Gates speaking more about the MTA model.

The Sun-Times also seemed to stress more that Fitzgerald was (understandably) interested in isolating political influence, but as we finally got to discussing earlier, that seems an impossible task in this state.

Update: Even given the above point, the question is what is this panel's mandate, in that it apparently is too broad to come up with anything meaningful in the next 3 weeks. If the mandate is efficiency, obviously a single system would have in its hands prioritizing allocation of funds and service, instead of the 3 boards having the statutory right to fight over them.

[mkohut]

That's certainly true.

The Sun-Times article had more about Pace protecting its turf, although there it actually had to do with service. It also had Gates speaking more about the MTA model.

The Sun-Times also seemed to stress more that Fitzgerald was (understandably) interested in isolating political influence, but as we finally got to discussing earlier, that seems an impossible task in this state.

Update: Even given the above point, the question is what is this panel's mandate, in that it apparently is too broad to come up with anything meaningful in the next 3 weeks. If the mandate is efficiency, obviously a single system would have in its hands prioritizing allocation of funds and service, instead of the 3 boards having the statutory right to fight over them.

Even if the panel agrees that everyone needs more money.I have my doubts the College Clowns will listen.

[jajuan]

That's certainly true.

The Sun-Times article had more about Pace protecting its turf, although there it actually had to do with service. It also had Gates speaking more about the MTA model.

The Sun-Times also seemed to stress more that Fitzgerald was (understandably) interested in isolating political influence, but as we finally got to discussing earlier, that seems an impossible task in this state.

Update: Even given the above point, the question is what is this panel's mandate, in that it apparently is too broad to come up with anything meaningful in the next 3 weeks. If the mandate is efficiency, obviously a single system would have in its hands prioritizing allocation of funds and service, instead of the 3 boards having the statutory right to fight over them.

When it comes down to what the panel's mandate is supposed to be, it's along those lines that I've seen where you're coming from in regards to your conclusion over the previous weeks that the panel seems set up to fail from the start.

[Busjack]

Even if the panel agrees that everyone needs more money.I have my doubts the College Clowns will listen.

The problem is that the College Clowns are more likely to listen to that than anything about reform. That's what resulted in the 2008 tax increase, while the Auditor General's recommendations were either ignored or made so conditional as to neuter them.

Since you bring up the Clowns and I did Fitzgerald's take on his task, do you really think that Madigan and whoever represents Claypool's district and the power brokers in DuPage County really want to abolish their political influence over hiring or anything else?

[mkohut]

The problem is that the College Clowns are more likely to listen to that than anything about reform. That's what resulted in the 2008 tax increase, while the Auditor General's recommendations were either ignored or made so conditional as to neuter them.

Since you bring up the Clowns and I did Fitzgerald's take on his task, do you really think that Madigan and whoever represents Claypool's district and the power brokers in DuPage County really want to abolish their political influence over hiring or anything else?

That will never happen

[mkohut]

This is a better understanding of TIF Funds or better known as Emanuel reelection funds

http://www.suntimes.com/22832518-761/taming-chicagos-17-billion-tif-monster.html

[jajuan]

This is a better understanding of TIF Funds or better known as Emanuel reelection funds

http://www.suntimes.com/22832518-761/taming-chicagos-17-billion-tif-monster.html

The uses of TIF funds may have been questionable as of late, but your characterization is not accurate otherwise the political reporters would be clammering for his indictment..

[mkohut]

The uses of TIF funds may have been questionable as of late, but your characterization is not accurate otherwise the political reporters would be clammering for his indictment..

Reality,The day Emanuel was giving 17 million for Walter Payton school.ABC 7 was showing the Alderman of the 36 Ward collecting toilet paper for the schools in his ward.Since the budgets of his schools got cut.

Daley use to reward alderman who went along with him TIF Funds projects in there ward.

That doesn't include Emanuel giving campaign money in the last election to candidates to people who supported his agenda.

I will the Alderman credit who ask the people in there ward what improvement they want in there ward with the money they get.

[Busjack]

Reality,The day Emanuel was giving 17 million for Walter Payton school.ABC 7 was showing the Alderman of the 36 Ward collecting toilet paper for the schools in his ward.Since the budgets of his schools got cut.

Daley use to reward alderman who went along with him TIF Funds projects in there ward.

That doesn't include Emanuel giving campaign money in the last election to candidates to people who supported his agenda.

I will the Alderman credit who ask the people in there ward what improvement they want in there ward with the money they get.

The real issue was that other papers printed a list for every TIF and the data is available now on the city's website. From how it looks, the reports appear to be block by block. So, mk, if you want to analyze them instead of characterize, you can do that.

I agree with Msall and the like that it isn't clear whether the schools get screwed on this or there are enough surplus funds to distribute to them, but at least the Emanuel administration isn't hiding the numbers.

Also, despite what the protesters say, money is not fungible. There are some transfers between adjoining TIFs, but money from 111th isn't going to Oak St.

The Alderman always ask their communities, but most also ignore them. Then you have stuff like the shooting range at 51st and Wood was in 5 wards and no alderman cared about it.

The uses of TIF funds may have been questionable as of late, but your characterization is not accurate otherwise the political reporters would be clammering for his indictment..

That's correct. It is no different than Quinn being at every ribbon cutting and holding a press conference at the signing of every trivial bill when the Legislature didn't get its work done, or now, when it appears that he isn't going to win the lawsuit on withholding legislators' pay (given that he can't get a stay and the checks went out) still milking the issue.

Sure Emanuel is going to do the same thing. The only difference is that whenever there is a CTA groundbreaking, he has a muzzle on Claypool, since letting Claypool talk will hurt Emanuel's political standing.

You bet that if anything ever happened at South Works (including opening US 41) every politician not in federal prison will be there.

[mkohut]

There is a plan for South Works.

http://www.cityofchicago.org/city/en/depts/dcd/supp_info/tif/southworks_industrialtif.html

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2010-09-16/news/ct-met-kamin-south-works-0917-20100916_1_coke-into-prime-steel-skyscraper-behemoths-south-works

[jajuan]

There is a plan for South Works.

http://www.cityofchicago.org/city/en/depts/dcd/supp_info/tif/southworks_industrialtif.html

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2010-09-16/news/ct-met-kamin-south-works-0917-20100916_1_coke-into-prime-steel-skyscraper-behemoths-south-works

There may be a plan. That part's easy. But what's the actual progress?

[mkohut]

There may be a plan. That part's easy. But what's the actual progress?

While that is something nobody here has control over.

I think there is a interest of that happening for tax money.

Plus,of course people taking credit for the amount of jobs it will create.

[jajuan]

While that is something nobody here has control over.

I think there is a interest of that happening for tax money.

Plus,of course people taking credit for the amount of jobs it will create.

That doesn't answer my question on what the progress is as people ultimately want to know if their tax dollars are actually making progress on completing something beneficial not just whether the politicians can come up with another plan that goes nowhere and becomes another financial sinkhole.

[mkohut]

That doesn't answer my question on what the progress is as people ultimately want to know if their tax dollars are actually making progress on completing something beneficial not just whether the politicians can come up with another plan that goes nowhere and becomes another financial sinkhole.

Here is a link which gives the time frame from 25 to 45 years.

http://chicago.curbed.com/tags/south-works

Too have 600 acres certainly isn't going to happen over nite.

If you want to talk about waste of taxpayers money.That would be money for the Peotone airport with no airline wanting it.It has a better chance of becoming Mall Of Illinois then a airport.

[jajuan]

Here is a link which gives the time frame from 25 to 45 years.

http://chicago.curbed.com/tags/south-works

Too have 600 acres certainly isn't going to happen over nite.

If you want to talk about waste of taxpayers money.That would be money for the Peotone airport with no airline wanting it.It has a better chance of becoming Mall Of Illinois then a airport.

Peotone is probably dead with Jesse Jackson, Jr. going to federal prison soon. And we're starting to veer off significantly off course with this thread.

[Busjack]

Actually, the only progress was that there was some concert there, advertised as though it were at Northerly Island.

There was an announcement that Solo Cup was moving there, but then Solo backed off.

As I mentioned, the rerouting of US41 was announced, but not opened.

And, of course, the Alderwoman who staked her platform on having it developed is going to spend a year in jail. My point only was that politicians love to show up at groundbreakings--that doesn't prove that all are on the take, although the ones associated with Peotone and the South Works were.

And Peotone just got a kick in the nuts in that CMAP staff refused to back the Illiniana Expressway, which would have served it.

Which gets us back to transit governance, i.e. the proposal to merge RTA and CMAP, and CMAP staff actually turned thumbs down on something. Let's see if the agency itself actually does, but all it proves is that it has a veto, not that it can originate anything, sort of like its endorsement of the Gray Line around 2000.

[mkohut]

I remember the Alderwoman and Emanuel side by side talking about it on TV.

The RTA and CMAP don't have taxing power.So the only way there would be any money for anything is merge.

Unless the College Clowns will give then the power for taxes.So they won't get blame.

[Busjack]

I remember the Alderwoman and Emanuel side by side talking about it on TV.

The RTA and CMAP don't have taxing power.So the only way there would be any money for anything is merge.

Unless the College Clowns will give then the power for taxes.So they won't get blame.

Which alderwoman? The one who is going to jail?

Like I said, the politicians have not been out for the grand opening. Emanuel was even at the grand opening of the Pullman Park Walmart, and touted the Whole Paycheck Market coming to Englewood. So, the correct inference is that nothing substantial to help their campaigns existed, which would counter your point that the politicians are engaged in crime to us public money for such projects to get reelected.

You also didn't get the point about an agency (CMAP) only having a veto, not affirmative powers. But the Gray Line people also didn't get that point. Also, you didn't get CMAPs point that they weren't going to approve a public private partnership that would leave state taxpayers on the hook, as it wasn't CMAP that was going to build the expressway.

[mkohut]

Which alderwoman? The one who is going to jail?

Like I said, the politicians have not been out for the grand opening. Emanuel was even at the grand opening of the Pullman Park Walmart, and touted the Whole Paycheck Market coming to Englewood. So, the correct inference is that nothing substantial to help their campaigns existed, which would counter your point that the politicians are engaged in crime to us public money for such projects to get reelected.

You also didn't get the point about an agency (CMAP) only having a veto, not affirmative powers. But the Gray Line people also didn't get that point. Also, you didn't get CMAPs point that they weren't going to approve a public private partnership that would leave state taxpayers on the hook, as it wasn't CMAP that was going to build the expressway.

Yes,Sandi Jackson. I don't know that much about CMAP.

There been enough Illinois Politician going to Jail.Where if they all serve at the same time a new jail would have to be build.

[mkohut]

More money being wasted

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20130930/news/709309951

[Busjack]

More money being wasted

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20130930/news/709309951

It looks like Res Publica does something that actually gets to the media, although I mentioned that Gates has generally only proposed self aggrandizing half steps on consolidating the 4 boards. On the sales tax issue, the real question is whether they can get the lawsuit past the pleading stage, not how much PR.

But don't forget that CTA spends at least this amount on the internal PR staff, who are apparently there to tell us that the Ventra rollout is moving smoothly.

[MetroShadow]

Yes,Sandi Jackson. I don't know that much about CMAP.

There been enough Illinois Politician going to Jail.Where if they all serve at the same time a new jail would have to be build.

CMAP is basically the Metropolitan Agency for Planning, which is the MPO (and I use that term cautiously) in funding for many of the transit projects (amongst other things) in the entire region. In this case, they receive funds from the feds for projects. Important to know that they work independently from the RTA, although there was talk in the last couple of years to merge CMAP and the RTA together (almost akin to what the Metropolitan Council in the Twin Cities do).

[Busjack]

For a bigger mess, the Sun Times has that the 2 top RTA staff (including Madigan's son in law) supposedly are under investigation for sexual and racial harassment, but since it was sent to the EIG, again, nobody can release anything about the charges. So, again, another legal excuse for shoving it under the carpet.

The biggest laugh is:

Matyas dismisses the investigation, saying it’s based on “false accusations” ...
“These accusations are part of a smear campaign orchestrated by those who would rather that the RTA not be empowered by law to provide the real, effective oversight that is so desperately needed to ensure that northeastern Illinois has an efficient and world-class mass transit system.”

Maybe that's why they need the P.R. consultants to come up with these absolute falsehoods.