MetroShadow Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 Building from the Milwaukee ART in a separate topic: Pace wants Congress to go all in for an ART network. (May be subject to the paywall) One of the sticking points in the article: The price tag of $2.3 billion includes the buses and garages to support the service, as well as the technology and infrastructure necessary, Pace said. By way of comparison, the network would serve the entire six-county area, whereas the once-hoped-for STAR Line would have primarily served only the northwest and far west suburbs. That suburb-to-suburb rail link, with an estimated cost of at least $1 billion, has been essentially discarded due to lack of funding. The $2.3 Billion is on the ambitious side of things, but covers the whole six-county area, while the Star-Line only covered three-ish counties out west. The article proceeds to describe that the proposal has been submitted to "Projects of National and Regional Significance." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 Building from the Milwaukee ART in a separate topic: Pace wants Congress to go all in for an ART network. (May be subject to the paywall) One of the sticking points in the article: The $2.3 Billion is on the ambitious side of things, but covers the whole six-county area, while the Star-Line only covered three-ish counties out west. The article proceeds to describe that the proposal has been submitted to "Projects of National and Regional Significance." Pace has always wanted a lot of stuff it couldn't get, like the J Line and the I-294 HOV Compobus ARRA application, or earlier than that, a proposal to put a bus every 1/4 mile everywhere in the suburbs, not just close in. Note that the article just said that Congress was soliciting proposals, not that it had passed anything, and "Pace admits the cost is unrealistic to expect the federal government to pay these days, due to the inability of Congress to agree on a long-term transportation funding measure." Some things like Edens and Dempster may get done, but no way Pace gets $2.3 billion. Also, as in instances like the I-294 proposal, there isn't any indication of ridership numbers. 889 was a flop, and it took several years to get 895 to a level that it now has actual buses.I really doubt that someone wants to take a bus from McHenry to O'Hare, certainly not 20 to justify one bus. Which also indicates, that Pace hasn't identified a source of operating money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 The story works on android if you have an android device. Yeah no way are they getting 2.3 billion when they couldn't get a billion for the Star line. They might be able to get some ART service going on the aforementioned routes like Cermak, Dempster or Harlem. That in itself is a success. I don't know if long term highway commuting will take off now that gas prices have lowered but it could work if they put terminals close to the Metra stations as there prices are getting ridiculous. But if they didn't have routes going into the loop like the Plainfield express it still might not work. I wonder if they couldn't tap some state money as the governors office seems friendly with the Pace express bus on shoulder program. Maybe they could divide the project in half get the state to help them on the highways with more bus on shoulder service and hit the feds up for ART money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 ... I wonder if they couldn't tap some state money as the governors office seems friendly with the Pace express bus on shoulder program. Maybe they could divide the project in half get the state to help them on the highways with more bus on shoulder service and hit the feds up for ART money. Stuff Pace is now instituting (I-55 and I-90, and Milwaukee Ave.) is a combination of state and CMAQ money. But, as you realize, they are talking maybe $10 million here or there, not $2 billion. The two Quinn programs appropriated $270 million for Suburban Bus Division suburban capital, and as the stuff about the South Campus indicates, that's coming in fits and starts (because bonds can't be issued until the state is sure that the revenue is there). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 Moving Forward characterizes this as: Ahead of Sunday’s Super Bowl, it might be the equivalent of a successful on-sides kickoff followed by a “Hail Mary” pass, but that didn’t stop Pace from submitting an ambitious $2.3 billion plan for a regional express bus network to the U.S. Department of Transportation for designation as a Project of National and Regional Significance [emphasis added]. Anyway, it says that the Milwaukee Pulse is to be instituted in 2017, and that a response whether DOT will give the program designation is expected later in 2015. There is also a picture of a Pulse shelter, apparently superimposed in front of a strip mall at 7880 N. Milwaukee (across from Jerry's). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Moving Forward characterizes this as: Anyway, it says that the Milwaukee Pulse is to be instituted in 2017, and that a response whether DOT will give the program designation is expected later in 2015. There is also a picture of a Pulse shelter, apparently superimposed in front of a strip mall at 7880 N. Milwaukee (across from Jerry's). Also interesting in that the ART program contains up to 24 routes. If they can get this off the ground floor, Pace might actually have a service that is better than CTA's. It is more practical not using express lanes and cheaper to construct and doesn't alienate too many folks with lane closures like we are seeing with the Ashland BRT opposition. It might help get X service back in CTA service if someone else threatens to take away their ridership on the outlying routes especially with better equipment. Competition is always good for the consumer. They have my vote!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 ... It might help get X service back in CTA service if someone else threatens to take away their ridership on the outlying routes especially with better equipment. Competition is always good for the consumer. They have my vote!! Only place Pace does that is with the proposed, but very unlikely Harlem between Glenview and Tinley Park one, where there is already competition between Oak Park and Grand Ave. But I see it was still on the presentation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west towns Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 As the pulse is more of express limited stop Pace could run it as an overlay to cta 90 letting cta do the local work. So it seems it can work on Harlem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 As the pulse is more of express limited stop Pace could run it as an overlay to cta 90 letting cta do the local work. So it seems it can work on Harlem But why foster even more destructive competition? Also, basically how is it going to be able to run express between essentially Irving Park and Grand, as the street is too narrow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west towns Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Dont see it as competition as the local is still on cta. Run with limited stips maybe at major intdesectiona for connections? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Dont see it as competition as the local is still on cta. Run with limited stips maybe at major intdesectiona for connections? How much bus service does that stretch of Harlem need, and how, on a one lane each way street is an "express" bus going to pass anything? And, of course, south of Grand, there is already the undue competition between 90 and Pace 307 and 318. Your "major intersections" is a red herring, because all ART does is stop somewhat (and apparently not very near from the Milwaukee preliminary plans) major streets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Only place Pace does that is with the proposed, but very unlikely Harlem between Glenview and Tinley Park one, where there is already competition between Oak Park and Grand Ave. But I see it was still on the presentation. They could expand on that though. CTA should just let them have the #54A corridor and they could try to run an ART from Old Orchard to Ford City or further south. Cicero needs an X route bad and you have Midway airport on Cicero too. So in the Harlem proposal, the local bus would still serve Midway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 How much bus service does that stretch of Harlem need, and how, on a one lane each way street is an "express" bus going to pass anything? And, of course, south of Grand, there is already the undue competition between 90 and Pace 307 and 318. Your "major intersections" is a red herring, because all ART does is stop somewhat (and apparently not very near from the Milwaukee preliminary plans) major streets. But they are all going to a rail line. That segment gets good ridership. How did the #X20 work with one lane. Same concept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 They could expand on that though. CTA should just let them have the #54A corridor and they could try to run an ART from Old Orchard to Ford City or further south. Cicero needs an X route bad and you have Midway airport on Cicero too. So in the Harlem proposal, the local bus would still serve Midway? Pace really needs a route that is 22 miles long, with only 5 miles in Chicago, just to make up for something CTA voluntarily canceled? If there is any argument for this, it only is for regional planning, Maybe CTA should extend 54A and make it an express route? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 But they are all going to a rail line. That segment gets good ridership. How did the #X20 work with one lane. Same concept. What rail line? Also, X20 (eventually) was express only on Washington and Warren Blvds. Plenty of room there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west towns Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Could stop at grand diversity belmont Addison Irving park, HIP Lawrence foster and a few other stops? Why would harlem go to midway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Could stop at grand diversity belmont Addison Irving park, HIP Lawrence foster and a few other stops? Why would harlem go to midway? As I said above about red herring.... The other reference was undoubtedly to 386. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west towns Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Busjack- I disagree with your assessment on Milwaukee as theres jeff park central touhy harlem dumpster and golf mill. Ok Oakton is not exactly 'at' oakton but neither is oakton really a major route. Maybe Pace looked at the transfers between 270 and 26 and deemed them not significant vs the ridership st jerrys-jewel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west towns Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Good question on harlem didnt think about 386. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Busjack- I disagree with your assessment on Milwaukee as theres jeff park central touhy harlem dumpster and golf mill. Ok Oakton is not exactly 'at' oakton but neither is oakton really a major route. Maybe Pace looked at the transfers between 270 and 26 and deemed them not significant vs the ridership st jerrys-jewel The reference was to that they have to put the Dempster one near Ballard due to the restaurant parking lot. Then, if they institute the Dempster ART, are they going to have to put its stop at Wisner St., resulting in a 4 block walk? That's not near. In any event, they are making it tougher to to transfer between Dempster and Milwaukee by not proposing stops on both sides of the overpass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west towns Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 I thought I read on here Ballard was an option if dempster cant get resolved? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 You know I see the hurdles of this project more as where are they going to get a garage from for extra equipment. Putting up a few shelters and priority signaling can't cost that much. Notice most of the ART projects I've heard are coming out of NW, so they must be building a way bigger facility there??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west towns Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 A new nw garage is planned in budget Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwantae Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 They could expand on that though. CTA should just let them have the #54A corridor and they could try to run an ART from Old Orchard to Ford City or further south. Cicero needs an X route bad and you have Midway airport on Cicero too. So in the Harlem proposal, the local bus would still serve Midway? X54- Cicero Express was my favorite Crosstown Express route, I miss it much, I remember rode it many times back in 2007-08. As far as Cicero can use a ART South, 383 is usually an heavy route during the day and Rush period, so Cicero ART can serve between Old Orchard and 103rd (to 104th/ Pulaski where 382 serves to). To answer your question about Harlem Proposal, if you are talking about 386, it should remain as it is, along with 307 to Argo. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 ... To answer your question about Harlem Proposal, if you are talking about 386, it should remain as it is, along with 307 to Argo. According to the Pace budget. 307 is going to the Toyota Park TC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.