My ideas to expand transit service in the Phoenix area (Wiki page, Bus and Rail Lines and fleet)

[Pink Jazz]

For those who were wondering where I am from, I am actually from the Phoenix metro area, however, I still have an interest in other transit systems including CTA. Considering Chicago has a great network of heavy rail, I thought I should come up with a dream light rail and streetcar network for the Phoenix metro area. Here is my list of lines:

• Red Line - Existing route plus north/west extension to Metrocenter Mall and east extension to Power Road and Superstition Springs Center. Serves Phoenix, Tempe, and Mesa.
• Blue Line - Existing route (including Downtown Mesa extension) plus planned Capitol/I-10 West extension and an additional extension west on I-10 and north on Loop 101 to Westgate. Serves Glendale, Phoenix, Tempe, and Mesa.
• Green Line - The planned Tempe Streetcar.
• Silver Line - Baseline and Central Avenue up Central to Indian School Road, east on Indian School Road, north on SR 51, east on Shea Blvd, and north on Tatum to Paradise Valley Mall. Serves Phoenix including the northeastern part of the city.
• Orange Line - From Arrowhead Towne Center, east on Bell Road, south on 59th Avenue, east on Glendale Avenue, south on Central Avenue, east on Loop 202, south to Sky Harbor Airport, east on Broadway, south on McClintock, and east on Chandler Blvd to Chandler Fashion Center. Serves Glendale, Peoria, Phoenix, Tempe, and Chandler.
• Pink Line - Chandler Blvd and 48th Street, east on Chandler Blvd/Williams Field Road to Power Road, and north on Power Road to Superstition Springs Center. Serves Phoenix (Ahwatukee), Chandler, Gilbert, and Mesa.
• Brown Line - Scottsdale Road and Frank Lloyd Wright south to Chandler Blvd, and east on Chandler Blvd to Chandler Fashion Center. Serves Scottsdale, Tempe, and Chandler.
• Purple Line - 75th Avenue and Baseline to Power Road via Baseline, and north on Power Road to Superstition Springs Center. Serves Phoenix (Laveen), Tempe, Mesa, and Gilbert.
• Gold Line - Downtown Phoenix from US Airways Center/Chase Field, east via existing alignment, south on Dobson Road, east on Southern Avenue, and south on Gilbert Road to Queen Creek Road. Serves Phoenix, Tempe, Mesa, Gilbert, and Chandler.

For efficient use of rail equipment, at Chandler Fashion Center Orange Line trains would leave as the Brown Line and vice-versa. Similarly, at Superstition Springs Center Pink Line trains would leave as the Purple Line and vice-versa.

How does anyone like this?

[Busjack]

For those who were wondering where I am from, I am actually from the Phoenix metro area, however, I still have an interest in other transit systems including CTA. Considering Chicago has a great network of heavy rail, I thought I should come up with a dream light rail and streetcar network for the Phoenix metro area. Here is my list of lines:.....

How does anyone like this?

You explained your background, but I don't see the point.

If Phoenix is more able to get funding than Chicago, send the money here where it is more needed.

Other than that, I don't think people in Chicago have any basis to judge a fantasy for somewhere else, when we are dealing with plenty of empty promise transit plans here.

[MTRSP1900-CTA3200]

Unfortunately I can't really give much input on these proposals, as much as I'd like to. I've been going to the Phoenix area almost every year since 2003, and I still only know a fraction of the roads there. However, unlike Chicago, these proposals are more likely to be built. Last time we had a physical expansion of the CTA system was back in 1993. Good luck to you guys down there.

[geneking7320]

I did vacation there back in October 2010 and stayed in the Holiday Inn off Central. Naturally I rode the light rail and took a few pics [see my Phoenix Buses and Phoenix Light Rail pics on Flickr]. One thing I liked was the free parking at the light rail terminal.

I wish CTA and Metra could do that here.

[Pink Jazz]

Sorry to bump an old thread, but for those who were still reading it, if you were wondering about the choices of my colors for each line, here is my reasoning:

• The Red and Blue Lines were named as such, since most transit agencies typically name their first and second transit lines, respectively, with those colors.
• The Green Line was named as such since Tempe seems to be a green city (their buses have a lot of green on them).
• The Brown Line was named as such because it is an area with a lower Hispanic population (Remember the Asian-American residents in Atlanta complained about the Yellow Line serving their neighborhood? That is why it was renamed the Gold Line).
• The Pink Line, for similar reasons to the Brown Line, was named as such because it serves a mostly politically conservative area (most of Chandler and all of Gilbert and east Mesa) which probably has a lower gay population than other parts of the Valley.
• Yellow was not used, I called the line the Gold Line since there is an Asian presence along Dobson.
• The Orange, Silver, and Purple Lines are completely random.

[Pink Jazz]

I have compiled a list of stops for each of my light rail lines (except for the Green Line aka Tempe Streetcar):

Red Line (From West to East):

• Metrocenter Mall
• 19th Ave and Dunlap
• 19th Ave and Northern
• 19th Ave and Glendale (walk to transfer to Orange Line)
• 19th Ave and Montebello
• 7th Ave and Camelback
• Central and Camelback (walk to transfer to Orange Line)
• Central and Campbell (shared with Orange Line)
• Central and Indian School (shared with Orange Line, walk to transfer to Silver Line)
• Central and Osborne (shared with Silver and Orange Lines)
• Central and Thomas (shared with Silver and Orange Lines)
• Central and Encanto (shared with Silver and Orange Lines)
• Central and McDowell (shared with Silver and Orange Lines)
• Central and Roosevelt (shared with Silver Line)
• Central and Van Buren (northbound) / 1st Ave and Van Buren (southbound) (shared with Silver Line)
• Central and Washington (northbound) / 1st Ave and Jefferson (southbound) (shared with Silver Line)
• Washington and 3rd St (westbound) / Jefferson and 3rd St (eastbound)(Downtown Phoenix; shared with Blue and Gold Lines)
• Washington and 12th St (westbound) / Jefferson and 12th St (eastbound) (shared with Blue and Gold Lines)
• Washington and 24th St (westbound) / Jefferson and 24th St (eastbound) (shared with Blue and Gold Lines; walk to transfer to Orange Line)
• Washington and 38th St (shared with Blue and Gold Lines)
• Washington and 44th St (Sky Harbor Airport Station; shared with Blue and Gold Lines)
• Washington and Priest (shared with Blue and Gold Lines)
• Washington and Center Pkwy (shared with Blue and Gold Lines)
• Third Street and Mill (Downtown Tempe Station; shared with Blue and Gold Lines)
• Veterans Way and College Ave (Arizona State University; shared with Blue and Gold Lines)
• University and Rural (shared with Blue and Gold Lines)
• Apache and Dorsey (shared with Blue and Gold Lines)
• Apache and McClintock (shared with Blue and Gold Lines)
• Apache and Smith-Martin (shared with Blue and Gold Lines)
• Apache and Price/Loop 101 (shared with Blue and Gold Lines)
• Main and Sycamore (shared with Blue Line, walk to transfer to Gold Line)
• Main and Alma School (shared with Blue Line)
• Main and Country Club (shared with Blue Line)
• Main and Center (Downtown Mesa Station; shared with Blue Line)
• Main and Mesa (Mesa LDS Temple; shared with Blue Line)
• Main and Stapley
• Main and Gilbert
• Main and Lindsay
• Main and Val Vista
• Main and Greenfield
• Main and Higley
• Main and Recker
• Main and Power
• Power and Broadway
• Power and Southern
• Superstition Springs Center (shared with Pink and Purple Lines)

Blue Line (from West to East):

• Westgate Station
• University of Phoenix Stadium Station
• Loop 101 and Camelback
• Loop 101 and Indian School
• Loop 101 and Thomas
• Loop 101 and McDowell
• I-10 and 91st Ave
• I-10 and 83rd Ave
• I-10 and 75th Ave
• I-10 and 67th Ave
• I-10 and 59th Ave
• I-10 and 51st Ave
• I-10 and 43rd Ave
• I-10 and 35th Ave
• I-10 and 27th Ave
• I-10 and 19th Ave
• 19th Ave and Van Buren
• Adams and 19th Ave (westbound) / Jefferson and 19th Ave (eastbound)
• Washington and 15th Ave (westbound) / Jefferson and 15th Ave (eastbound)
• Washington and 7th Ave (westbound) / Jefferson and 7th Ave (eastbound)
• Washington and 1st Ave / Jefferson and 1st Ave
• Washington and 3rd St (westbound) / Jefferson and 3rd St (eastbound)(Downtown Phoenix; shared with Red and Gold Lines)
• Washington and 12th St (westbound) / Jefferson and 12th St (eastbound) (shared with Red and Gold Lines)
• Washington and 24th St (westbound) / Jefferson and 24th St (eastbound) (shared with Red and Gold Lines; walk to transfer to Orange Line)
• Washington and 38th St (shared with Red and Gold Lines)
• Washington and 44th St (Sky Harbor Airport Station; shared with Red and Gold Lines)
• Washington and Priest (shared with Red and Gold Lines)
• Washington and Center Pkwy (shared with Red and Gold Lines)
• Third Street and Mill (Downtown Tempe Station; shared with Red and Gold Lines)
• Veterans Way and College Ave (Arizona State University; shared with Red and Gold Lines)
• University and Rural (shared with Red and Gold Lines)
• Apache and Dorsey (shared with Red and Gold Lines)
• Apache and McClintock (shared with Red and Gold Lines)
• Apache and Smith-Martin (shared with Red and Gold Lines)
• Apache and Price/Loop 101 (shared with Red and Gold Lines)
• Main and Sycamore (shared with Red Line, walk to transfer to Gold Line)
• Main and Alma School (shared with Red Line)
• Main and Country Club (shared with Red Line)
• Main and Center (Downtown Mesa; shared with Red Line)
• Main and Mesa (Mesa LDS Temple; shared with Red Line)

Silver Line (from South to North):

• Central and Baseline (walk to transfer to Purple Line)
• Central and Southern
• Central and Roeser
• Central and Broadway
• Central and Pioneer
• Central and Watkins
• Central and Buckeye
• Central and Washington (northbound) / 1st Ave and Jefferson (southbound) (Downtown Phoenix; shared with Red Line)
• Central and Van Buren (northbound) / 1st Ave and Van Buren (southbound) (shared with Red Line)
• Central and Roosevelt (shared with Red Line)
• Central and McDowell (shared with Red and Orange Lines)
• Central and Encanto (shared with Red and Orange Lines)
• Central and Thomas (shared with Red and Orange Lines)
• Central and Osborne (shared with Red and Orange Lines)
• Indian School and Central (walk to transfer to Red and Orange Lines)
• Indian School and 7th St
• Indian School and 12th St
• Indian School and 16th St
• SR 51 and Camelback
• SR 51 and Bethany Home
• SR 51 and Glendale
• SR 51 and Northern
• SR 51 and Shea
• Shea and 36th St
• Shea and 40th St
• Shea and 44th St
• Shea and Tatum
• Tatum and Cactus
• Paradise Valley Mall

Orange Line (from Northwest to Southeast):

• Arrowhead Towne Center
• 75th Ave and Bell
• Bell and 67th Ave
• Bell and 59th Ave
• 59th Ave and Greenway
• 59th Ave and Thunderbird
• 59th Ave and Cactus
• 59th Ave and Peoria
• 59th Ave and Olive
• 59th Ave and Northern
• 59th Ave and Glendale / Grand (Downtown Glendale Station)
• Glendale and 57th Ave
• Glendale and 51st Ave
• Glendale and 43rd Ave
• Glendale and 39th Ave
• Glendale and 35th Ave
• Glendale and 27th Ave
• Glendale and 19th Ave (walk to transfer to Red Line)
• Glendale and 7th Ave
• Glendale and Central
• Central and Maryland
• Central and Bethany Home
• Central and Camelback (walk to transfer to Red Line)
• Central and Campbell (shared with Red Line)
• Central and Indian School (shared with Red Line, walk to transfer to Silver Line)
• Central and Osborne (shared with Red and Silver Lines)
• Central and Thomas (shared with Red and Silver Lines)
• Central and Encanto (shared with Red and Silver Lines)
• Central and McDowell (shared with Red and Silver Lines)
• I-10 and 7th St
• I-10 and 12th St
• I-10 and 16th St
• Loop 202 and 24th St
• 24th St and Van Buren
• 24th St and Washington / Jefferson (walk to transfer to Red, Blue, and Gold Lines)
• 24th St and Buckeye (Sky Harbor Airport)
• 24th St and Broadway
• Broadway and 32nd St
• Broadway and 48th St
• Broadway and Priest
• Broadway and Hardy
• Broadway and Rural (walk to transfer to Brown Line)
• Broadway and McClintock
• McClintock and Southern
• McClintock and Baseline (walk to transfer to Purple Line)
• McClintock and Guadalupe
• McClintock and Elliot
• McClintock and Warner
• McClintock and Ray
• Chandler and McClintock (shared with Pink and Brown Lines)
• Chandler and Metro (Chandler Fashion Center; shared with Pink and Brown Lines)

Pink Line (from West to East):

• Chandler and 48th St
• Chandler and 56th St
• Chandler and Kyrene
• Chandler and Rural (shared with Brown Line)
• Chandler and McClintock (shared with Orange and Brown Lines)
• Chandler and Metro (Chandler Fashion Center; shared with Orange and Brown Lines)
• Chandler and Ellis
• Chandler and Dobson
• Chandler and Alma School
• Chandler and Arizona (Downtown Chandler Station)
• Chandler and McQueen
• Chandler and Cooper
• Chandler and Gilbert (walk to transfer to Gold Line)
• Williams Field and Val Vista
• Williams Field and Market (SanTan Village Station)
• Williams Field and Higley
• Williams Field and Recker (potential add-in station based on future mixed use development)
• Williams Field and Power (ASU Polytechnic)
• Power and Ray
• Power and Warner (potential add-in station)
• Power and Elliot (potential add-in station)
• Power and Guadalupe
• Power and Baseline (walk to transfer to Purple Line)
• Power and Superstition Springs (shared with Purple Line)
• Superstition Springs Center (shared with Red and Purple Lines)

Brown Line (from South to North):

• Chandler and Metro (Chandler Fashion Center; shared with Orange and Pink Lines)
• Chandler and McClintock (shared with Orange and Pink Lines)
• Chandler and Rural (shared with Pink Line)
• Rural and Ray
• Rural and Warner
• Rural and Elliot
• Rural and Guadalupe
• Rural and Baseline (walk to transfer to Purple Line)
• Rural and Southern
• Rural and Broadway (walk to transfer to Orange Line)
• Rural and Apache
• Rural and Tyler (walk to transfer to Red, Blue, and Gold Lines)
• Rural and Rio Salado
• Scottsdale and McKellips
• Scottsdale and Roosevelt
• Scottsdale and McDowell
• Scottsdale and Thomas
• Scottsdale and Main (Old Town Scottsdale Station)
• Scottsdale and Camelback (Scottsdale Fashion Square)
• Scottsdale and Jackrabbit
• Scottsdale and McDonald
• Scottsdale and Lincoln
• Scottsdale and Indian Bend
• Scottsdale and McCormick
• Scottsdale and Mountain View
• Scottsdale and Shea
• Scottsdale and Cactus
• Scottsdale and Sweetwater (potential add-in station)
• Scottsdale and Thunderbird
• Scottsdale and Greenway (Kierland Commons)
• Scottsdale and Frank Lloyd Wright

Purple Line (from West to East):

• Baseline and 75th Ave
• Baseline and 67th Ave
• Baseline and 51st Ave
• Baseline and 35th Ave
• Baseline and 27th Ave
• Baseline and 19th Ave
• Baseline and 7th Ave
• Baseline and Central (walk to transfer to Silver Line)
• Baseline and 16th St
• Baseline and 24th St
• Baseline and 32nd St
• Baseline and 48th St
• Baseline and Priest (Arizona Mills)
• Baseline and Hardy
• Baseline and Mill
• Baseline and Rural (walk to transfer to Brown Line)
• Baseline and McClintock (walk to transfer to Orange Line)
• Baseline and Dobson
• Baseline and Alma School
• Baseline and Country Club
• Baseline and McQueen/Mesa
• Baseline and Cooper/Stapley
• Baseline and Gilbert (walk to transfer to Gold Line)
• Baseline and Val Vista
• Baseline and Greenfield
• Baseline and Higley
• Baseline and Power (walk to transfer to Pink Line)
• Power and Superstition Springs (shared with Pink Line)
• Superstition Springs Center (shared with Red and Pink Lines)

Gold Line (from West To East):

• Washington and 3rd St (westbound) / Jefferson and 3rd St (eastbound)(Downtown Phoenix; shared with Red and Blue Lines)
• Washington and 12th St (westbound) / Jefferson and 12th St (eastbound) (shared with Red and Blue Lines)
• Washington and 24th St (westbound) / Jefferson and 24th St (eastbound) (shared with Red and Blue Lines; walk to transfer to Orange Line)
• Washington and 38th St (shared with Red and Blue Lines)
• Washington and 44th St (Sky Harbor Airport Station; shared with Red and Blue Lines)
• Washington and Priest (shared with Red and Blue Lines)
• Washington and Center Pkwy (shared with Red and Blue Lines)
• Third Street and Mill (Downtown Tempe Station; shared with Red and Blue Lines)
• Veterans Way and College Ave (Arizona State University; shared with Red and Blue Lines)
• University and Rural (shared with Red and Blue Lines)
• Apache and Dorsey (shared with Red and Blue Lines)
• Apache and McClintock (shared with Red and Blue Lines)
• Apache and Smith-Martin (shared with Red and Blue Lines)
• Apache and Price/Loop 101 (shared with Red and blue Lines)
• Dobson and Main (Mekong Plaza; walk to transfer Red and Blue Lines)
• Dobson and Broadway
• Southern and Dobson
• Southern and Alma School (Fiesta Mall)
• Southern and Country Club
• Southern and Mesa
• Southern and Stapley
• Southern and Gilbert
• Gilbert and Baseline (walk to transfer to Purple Line)
• Gilbert and Guadalupe
• Gilbert and Page (Downtown Gilbert)
• Gilbert and Civic Center
• Gilbert and Ray
• Gilbert and Chandler/Williams Field (walk to transfer to Pink Line)
• Gilbert and Pecos (Chandler-Gilbert Community College)
• Gilbert and Germann
• Gilbert and Queen Creek

[ChicagoNova]

Does anyone have any dreams of having light rail service in Chicago?

[Busjack]

Does anyone have any dreams of having light rail service in Chicago?

Rather paranoid ones. However, unless something like the Carroll St. circulator comes back, it isn't going to happen. If there is a right of way, heavy rail is usually suggested.

[ChicagoNova]

Rather paranoid ones. However, unless something like the Carroll St. circulator comes back, it isn't going to happen. If there is a right of way, heavy rail is usually suggested.

Heavy rail is more expensive.

[Busjack]

Heavy rail is more expensive.

True, but a CTA train can carry up to 1100 passengers. The DC Street Car seems to be an attempt to bring back streetcars, but from the web sources, one destined to have the plug pulled on it or to be scaled back. Thus, still the issue that if you want it, you need to find a right of way for it, which, in Chicago, pretty much limits it to the Carroll St. or McCormick Place busway ideas.

[ChicagoNova]

True, but a CTA train can carry up to 1100 passengers. The DC Street Car seems to be an attempt to bring back streetcars, but from the web sources, one destined to have the plug pulled on it or to be scaled back. Thus, still the issue that if you want it, you need to find a right of way for it, which, in Chicago, pretty much limits it to the Carroll St. or McCormick Place busway ideas.

It is true that a CTA train, even if it was just 2 cars long, can carry more passengers than a single light rail car unit.

[Pink Jazz]

Sorry to bump an old thread again, but one thing that I have been thinking about my light rail system is what yards to base each line. Considering that most cities with multiple rail lines have multiple rail yards, it wouldn't make sense to base all of the lines at one yard. So, I think there should be two rail yards, with the following line assignments:

• The existing yard in Phoenix would be expanded for more cars. Lines based in Phoenix would include the Red, Blue, Silver, and Gold Lines.
• Tempe plans on building its own yard for the Tempe Streetcar (Green Line in my system). In my system the Tempe yard would be expanded for light rail. Lines based in Tempe would include the Green, Orange, Pink, Brown, and Purple Lines. While it may make more geographic sense to base the Orange Line in Phoenix, the Orange Line interlines with the Brown Line at Chandler Fashion Center and thus uses the same cars for both lines, thus basing it in Tempe along with the Brown Line would keep a more even distribution of lines between the two yards, otherwise having them based in separate yards would not allow the interlining of those two lines, reducing operational efficiency.

Any changes anyone would make to these yard assignments? Should there be additional yards besides Phoenix and Tempe?

Edited September 26, 2015 by Pink Jazz

[Pink Jazz]

Here is a page on Future Wiki that I created with my own ideas of expanding my local transit system, with new bus routes, my dream rail lines (previously posted in another thread), and my preferred bus and rail fleets.

http://future.wikia.com/wiki/Valley_Metro_(by_Andros_1337)

New Bus Routes:

• 99 - 99th Avenue
• 124 - Warner Road
• 131 - Dysart Road
• 140 - Ray Road
• 144 - Lindsay Road
• 152 - Val Vista Drive
• 160 - Greenfield Road/SanTan Village Parkway
• 168 - Higley Road
• 176 - Recker Road
• 204 - Queen Creek Road
• 208 - Ellsworth Road
• 536 - Apache Junction Express
• 537 - Queen Creek/San Tan Valley Express
• Downtown Chandler Fairy
• Downtown Gilbert Navigator
• Gilbert-Queen Creek Pink Line Connector
• Superstition Shuttle
• Peoria Pixie
• Surprise-Sun Cities Star
• M&M - Phoenix Midtown/Melrose Neighborhood Circulator
• Tempe Orbit Ceres
• Tempe Orbit Eris
• Tempe Orbit Haumea
• Tempe Orbit Makemake
• Tempe Orbit Neptune
• Tempe Orbit Pluto
• Tempe Orbit Saturn
• Tempe Orbit Uranus
• Loop 101 East Rapid (Price/Pima Freeway)
• Loop 101 West Rapid (Agua Fria Freeway)
• Loop 202 North Rapid (Red Mountain Freeway)
• Loop 202 South Rapid (SanTan Freeway)

New Bus Models:

• New Flyer XD40
• New Flyer XN40
• Nova LFS Artic
• Nova LFX Artic
• Stallion 245

Rail Lines:

• Red Line (Metrocenter/Melrose/Downtown Phoenix/Downtown Tempe/Downtown Mesa/Superstition Springs)
• Blue Line (Westgate/State Capitol/Downtown Phoenix/Downtown Tempe/Downtown Mesa)
• Green Line (Tempe Streetcar)
• Silver Line (South Mountain/Downtown Phoenix/Paradise Valley Mall)
• Orange Line (Arrowhead Towne Center/Downtown Glendale/Sky Harbor Airport/Tempe/Chandler Fashion Center)
• Pink Line (Ahwatukee/Chandler Fashion Center/Downtown Chandler/SanTan Village/Superstition Springs)
• Gold Line (Downtown Phoenix/Downtown Tempe/Mekong Plaza/Fiesta District/Downtown Gilbert/South Chandler)
• Brown Line (North Scottsdale/Scottsdale Fashion Square/Tempe/Chandler Fashion Center)
• Purple Line (Laveen/South Mountain/Arizona Mills/Dana Park/Superstition Springs)

Rail Fleet:

• Kinki Sharyo Low Floor LRV - Phoenix Yard, assigned to Red and Blue Lines
• Kinki Sharyo ameriTRAM - Tempe Yard, assigned to Green Line
• Bombardier FLEXITY LRV - Phoenix Yard, assigned to Silver and Gold Lines
• Siemens S70 - Tempe Yard, assigned to Orange, Brown, Pink, and Purple Lines

What does anyone think here about my dream?

 

[Kevin]

(Similar topics concerning Phoenix transit have been merged.)

[Pink Jazz]

As an update, I modified my Orange Line based on current proposals, as well as to better serve Peoria including Downtown Peoria.  The new routing for the Orange Line would connect to the Blue Line at Westgate.

Also, I might have to update my bus routes and fleet based on changes to the delivery schedule.