Tcmetro Posted January 30 Report Share Posted January 30 Looks like it's down to New Flyer and Gillig in the US. https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20240129066373/en/REV-Group-Inc.-to-Exit-School-and-Transit-Bus-Manufacturing-and-Reorganize-Into-Two-Reporting-Segments-Announces-a-Special-Cash-Dividend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted January 30 Report Share Posted January 30 Maybe more significant from our perspective is the statement that it will be "winding down operations at its ElDorado National-California (“ENC”) business, which is expected to be substantially completed by the end of fiscal year 2024, once existing customer orders are completed and delivered," given that the Pace board authorized a contract for CNG buses for Wheeling, and Metzger said it would order 46, but I assume never did so. Also, they said "the financial health of key suppliers, has created a competitive bidding for diesel and CNG buses that has made it difficult for ENC to compete profitably versus peers of greater scale." So they aren't interested in that part of the market, either. Official release A little more info in Mass Transit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geneking7320 Posted January 30 Report Share Posted January 30 Any guesses on another manufacturer entering the U.S. transit market by the time CTA and/or Pace should order more 40 footers? Also AFAIK, the only makers of 60ft artics would be New Flyer and BYD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted January 30 Report Share Posted January 30 16 minutes ago, geneking7320 said: Any guesses on another manufacturer entering the U.S. transit market by the time CTA and/or Pace should order more 40 footers? Also AFAIK, the only makers of 60ft artics would be New Flyer and BYD. I wouldn't enter the market now, given supply chain issues, and basically U.S. transit agencies have quit ordering in significant quantities due to uncertainty over electrification. For instance. look at https://revgroup.com/ (click on News Feed ENC). There used to be an item every time Pace exercised an option, but now there's only 19 FC buses for Foothill Transit and 3 FCs for RGRTA. On scale, you can compare that to NFI's volume, which was 4000 EU, or probably 2000 buses (an EU would be a 40-ft diesel buses), although that also includes subsidiaries (MCI) and Canada. I'm sure Buy America is now a deterrent to foreign entry. Surprisingly, with respect to 30-ft electric buses, that market appears more competitive (GreenPower, ARBOC [NFI}, BYD, Lion). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted October 27 Report Share Posted October 27 While that Rev Group is out of the transit business is certainly the case, is ENC dead? Various outlets have picked up the headline: "REV Group finalizes sale of ENC to Rivaz, Inc." but those all seem based on the Rev Group Press Release, and a diligent Google search turns up nothing about Rivaz itself. Maybe just for salvage value (especially since ENC's only big customer was Pace, which has gone elsewhere for very small orders). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artthouwill Posted October 27 Report Share Posted October 27 1 hour ago, Busjack said: While that Rev Group is out of the transit business is certainly the case, is ENC dead? Various outlets have picked up the headline: "REV Group finalizes sale of ENC to Rivaz, Inc." but those all seem based on the Rev Group Press Release, and a diligent Google search turns up nothing about Rivaz itself. Maybe just for salvage value (especially since ENC's only big customer was Pace, which has gone elsewhere for very small orders). From what I could find Rivas Inc us a national supplier of industrial chemicals. That's all I could find other than the sale you referenced. REV will use the proceeds to pay down debt but nothing about Rivas intentions with ENC. Update; Through LinkedIn, i found another Rivas Inc that's a Motor Vehicle Manufacturing Company. However the link to the website www.rivasinc.com doesn't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted October 27 Report Share Posted October 27 2 hours ago, artthouwill said: From what I could find Rivas Inc us a national supplier of industrial chemicals. That's all I could find other than the sale you referenced. REV will use the proceeds to pay down debt but nothing about Rivas intentions with ENC. Update; Through LinkedIn, i found another Rivas Inc that's a Motor Vehicle Manufacturing Company. However the link to the website www.rivasinc.com doesn't work. It was Rivaz with a Z, although Google came up with both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busfan2847 Posted October 28 Report Share Posted October 28 It appears Rivaz Inc was incorporated in Pasadena, CA on 1st Sep this year. https://www.bizprofile.net/ca/pasadena/rivaz-inc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Transit Posted October 28 Report Share Posted October 28 Concerning the shutdown of ENC, I read on a business website that Rivaz Inc is a automobile parts manufacturer. Also, if you read the REV news release, the CEO was thankful that Rivaz will continue with the ENC brand of buses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted October 29 Report Share Posted October 29 4 hours ago, Mr.Transit said: Also, if you read the REV news release, the CEO was thankful that Rivaz will continue with the ENC brand of buses. Strict corporate b.s. If that were the case (such as with Phoenix Motorcars and the proposed Kroger merger), Rivaz would have said something, not REV Group, which was only interested in the $52 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Transit Posted October 29 Report Share Posted October 29 I found the info on the Bloomberg business news website, a reputable news source. Spoiler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted October 29 Report Share Posted October 29 11 hours ago, Mr.Transit said: I found the info on the Bloomberg business news website, a reputable news source. Hide contents Unfortunately, you didn't post a quote or a link. Also, I doubt that you paid for a subscription to Bloomberg News, and using its website search turned up nothing. There's also nothing in your Hidden Content box. Don't try to fool us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted October 29 Report Share Posted October 29 On 10/28/2024 at 10:27 AM, busfan2847 said: It appears Rivaz Inc was incorporated in Pasadena, CA on 1st Sep this year. https://www.bizprofile.net/ca/pasadena/rivaz-inc To fill in the legalisms in the links* in the source you cited, the following, from corp.delaware.gov** shows the incorporation in Delaware, on which the California paperwork is based: ----------- *Initial Statement ** Enter Rivaz in search box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Transit Posted October 29 Report Share Posted October 29 I wasn't trying to fool anyone...the Bloomberg item didn't mention the sale to ENC, it only mentioned the company's profile...sorry if I misled anyone...Also, the sale was posted on several business news sites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted October 29 Report Share Posted October 29 54 minutes ago, Mr.Transit said: I wasn't trying to fool anyone...the Bloomberg item didn't mention the sale to ENC, it only mentioned the company's profile...sorry if I misled anyone...Also, the sale was posted on several business news sites. But you didn't link to or quote Bloomberg, so we have no idea what it said. The sale was posted on several sites, as I said, but no site that I saw had anything independent of the REV Group press release. At least @busfan2847 found the California corporate papers. The bottom line is that not you, nor apparently much of anyone else, knows what business Rivaz, Inc has actually transacted in the approximately 15 months since it was incorporated in Delaware. In the comparable situation of Phoenix Motorcars buying Proterra Transit out of bankruptcy, while there were (and probably still are) doubts about whether Phoenix can operate the business, at least it had a website stating that it was building electric vehicles on F-450 chassis. Rivaz has nothing comparable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Transit Posted October 29 Report Share Posted October 29 Apparently we'll know something sooner or later...ENC is supposed to shut down at the end of this week...if not, it may be true then ENC was purchased by Rivaz Inc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted October 30 Report Share Posted October 30 3 hours ago, Mr.Transit said: Apparently we'll know something sooner or later...ENC is supposed to shut down at the end of this week...if not, it may be true then ENC was purchased by Rivaz Inc. Again, you missed the point. Nobody is saying REV Group is lying about the sale. The issue is whether Rivaz Inc. is a sufficient business concern to revive the bus assembly business. You can't admit that you don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Transit Posted October 30 Report Share Posted October 30 Spoiler Nobody is for sure, only time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Transit Posted November 4 Report Share Posted November 4 I was just on Rivaz website--www.rivaz.com--they identify who they are and what type of business they run...Lastly they announced the sale of ENC's buses to their company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artthouwill Posted November 4 Report Share Posted November 4 8 minutes ago, Mr.Transit said: I was just on Rivaz website--www.rivaz.com--they identify who they are and what type of business they run...Lastly they announced the sale of ENC's buses to their company. Based on what they said, they're going to concentrate on building battery powered electric vehicles and hydrogen fuel cell vehicles. Apparently buying ENC means they have a platform to build these type buses. The question is how competitive can they actually be with Phoenix, New Flyer, and Gillig competing for the same business. Consider that Rev Group didn't see ENC as profitable and was actually shutting it down before selling it. Pace is looking for gydrogen fuel buses to replace the CNGs at South Division. Eventually Pace will have to put out a RFP. WE will see if Rivaz is a real player or not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Transit Posted November 4 Report Share Posted November 4 I wonder what battery technology Rivaz will use now that Proterra sold theirs to Volvo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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