geneking7320 Posted October 3, 2006 Report Share Posted October 3, 2006 I just rid the CTA trivia thread and I remembered in the early days of the RTA (prior to Pace) CTA and RTA had some air conditioned GMC New Looks which appeared to have common specs. I realize with the large option CTA has with New Flyer it won't happen soon. I was wondering though why don't the two agencies order the same bus? Gene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted October 3, 2006 Report Share Posted October 3, 2006 Your memory is pretty good, and if I remember correctly from the old legal notices (I don't keep 30-year old Sun Times issues), RTA actually ordered both the CTA 9600s and RTA 8000s. Also, before that, the various suburban mass transit districts "piggy backed" on the CTA orders. RTA was stripped in 1983 of its operating functions, and I'm sure that included cooperative purchasing. Pace is pretty much a "low bid" purchaser, and noted, at the time, that the 6000 series Orion VIs were $10,000 each lower than the previous order (apparently the 2401 series NABIs; again, their archived press releases do not go back that far). The only time recently that CTA and Pace came close to a common supplier was with NABI announcing it was the apparent low bidder for the 1000s, but it turned out that it didn't get the contract, and even then NABI announced that the styling would be like the 7500s. CTA and Pace both made contracts for 30 footers last year, but CTA specified that theirs be narrower, which knocked out ElDorado, but the ElDorados turned out to be cheaper, according to Pace. What machinations actually occur at CTA and Pace purchasing, I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainman8119 Posted October 3, 2006 Report Share Posted October 3, 2006 The 8000's were 35 footers. The real common bond on that piggy back order was the NORTRAN purchase of their 400 series buses and the South Suburban Safeway puchase of the 700 series buses. Those were 40 footers and were pretty much the same as the 9600 series CTA buses. I am sure with the in fighting between the two agencies, Carole Brown would find a way to write a bit so that any piggyback towards Pace would include a way to jack up the price to Pace if she could...It may be awhile before these two service boards do anything together...cost savings or not !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailBus63 Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 CTA buys buses in large quantities already - Pace wouldn't be ordering enough additional buses to really knock down the price CTA would pay any further. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geneking7320 Posted October 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 CTA buys buses in large quantities already - Pace wouldn't be ordering enough additional buses to really knock down the price CTA would pay any further. Jim You're likely right about this. As a rider of CTA and Pace I wish CTA buses had the seats found on the Pace NABIs along with the driver opened rear doors though. Gene King Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 As a rider of CTA and Pace I wish CTA buses had the seats found on the Pace NABIs along with the driver opened rear doors though.Things like that are apparently options selected by the purchaser within the scope of the Standard Bus Procurement Guidelines, and have more to do with the purchaser than the manufacturer. For instance, both CTA 500s and 1000s are eventually supposed to have the same type of seats, and similarly Pace EZ-Riders are supposed to have the same type of seats as the 6162s and 6600s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmadisonwi Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 Why would we need driver-opened rear doors? Aren't passengers capable of pushing the bar (or waving their hand under the sonar-based sensor) themselves? I think a driver-operated rear door could cause more problems than it would solve on many buses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainman8119 Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 Why would we need driver-opened rear doors? Aren't passengers capable of pushing the bar (or waving their hand under the sonar-based sensor) themselves? The answer is no...there are way too many dummies out there !!!! As a former driver, the advantage of the driver control is that you have the flexibility of controlling who might go out the back door. You have the option of actually closing or opening the door a bit quicker when you are trying to make time, as there are those who will stare at the door waiting for it to open. However, all it takes is one idiot to hold on to the door and it is all for naught anyway. But the fact is, with the driver control, you can sometimes make time by keeping control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetroShadow Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 The answer is no...there are way too many dummies out there !!!! As a former driver, the advantage of the driver control is that you have the flexibility of controlling who might go out the back door. You have the option of actually closing or opening the door a bit quicker when you are trying to make time, as there are those who will stare at the door waiting for it to open. However, all it takes is one idiot to hold on to the door and it is all for naught anyway. But the fact is, with the driver control, you can sometimes make time by keeping control. I will also add, from a former high school student's point of view, I have seen kids come and go from that back door without paying, sometimes 10 at a time. So I would be in support of the driver control doors as well. But I am not so much a fan of the NABI controls...still have no clue how the hell that works, and I don't know how pushing with that light helps either! :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmadisonwi Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 First of all, if you don't want folks going in and out through the back door, the answer is simple: Don't turn the handle to unlock it (i.e. don't let the green light come on). The driver already has that control ability right now. Secondly, most buses (though, admittedly, I don't know if all of them do or not) should have an override switch that enables the driver to open the back door in the event that passengers seriously can't figure out how to open it (or, in the event that the door needs to be held open for someone carrying a lot of stuff off the bus). The disadvantage that I can see to driver-controlled back doors is that the doors would be constantly opening and closing at stops where nobody wants to get off. This would take up extra time (i.e. however long it takes for the door to close), and during periods of really hot or really cold weather, the constant opening and closing of the door for no reason would screw up the climate control (A/C or heat). Conversely, if the driver got in the habit of *not* opening the back door, to preserve the heat or A/C, then passengers would continuously shove and bang on the back door in order to get the driver's attention to open it. On a full bus, it can be difficult for the driver to determine whether or not someone standing at the back wants to get off the bus, or if they're just standing there because that's the only place left for them to stand. With the current set up, all he/she has to do is turn the handle and the green light comes on. If someone wants to get off, all they have to do is push the bar or wave their hand through the sensor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainman8119 Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 With the current set up, all he/she has to do is turn the handle and the green light comes on. If someone wants to get off, all they have to do is push the bar or wave their hand through the sensor. Once again, you are forgetting that these are people who are pushing the door and once again I'll state that, in general, people are stupid. They will just look at the door. I see it every day on the train. People will stand by doors that will not open, even though the world is down the platform getting on...then they will look at you like YOU are the idiot !!! Those same people will get on in the vestibule and wait for the vestibule doors to open, which they are not since they are a manual door. And in the ADA cars, all one needs to do is push the button...but half the people don't do that either. As for the driver opening and closing, I am sure a good operator would not be opening the rear doors if nobody is getting off...there would be no reason to. The handle is set up real easy....forward one notch opens the front doors, forward 2 notches opens front and rear doors...back one opens rear, back two opens rear and front. Automatic vs manual is a toggle switch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailBus63 Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 Driver-operated rear doors are not an either/or issue - some systems have equipped their buses so that the rear doors operate in manual 'push' mode normally, but the driver can turn the handle to another setting and automatically open the doors if needed. JD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geneking7320 Posted October 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2006 I can remember when the CTA had a few buses with driver opened rear doors. Doors anyone (Zolk maybe?) know if the CTA has a written policy discouraging driver opened/opening rear doors? Gene King Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmadisonwi Posted October 8, 2006 Report Share Posted October 8, 2006 I just checked on a NABI artic today, and it does have a switch that enables the driver to open the rear doors. So, what exactly is the problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geneking7320 Posted November 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 One more note about driver opened rear doors... Have you noticed that on CTA routes which serve a number of tourists such as those which run on North Michigan avenue, the tourists expect the doors to open automatically? How many of the ten largest US cities have buses with driver opened rear doors? Gene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailBus63 Posted November 19, 2006 Report Share Posted November 19, 2006 One more note about driver opened rear doors... Have you noticed that on CTA routes which serve a number of tourists such as those which run on North Michigan avenue, the tourists expect the doors to open automatically? How many of the ten largest US cities have buses with driver opened rear doors? Gene Boston does have driver-operated doors, but New York's buses have the push-type doors. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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