New Flyer 1000s

[Buslover88]

we were dispatched to an accident this morning involving CTA NF #1088. The accident happened at the Ashland/Orange Line sta. A SB #9 Ashland bus was T-boned by a semi truck. The bus was hit in the rear door area, not seriously damaged but it will need some repair. We transported the bus driver to the hospital. Had to take care of one of my own, I felt bad for the bus driver.

Oh my goodness, that sounds terrible. I hope the driver will be okay.

[Guest]

Oh my goodness, that sounds terrible. I hope the driver will be okay.

He'll be okay, just a bit shaken up. Like I said I made sure I took care of one of my own.

[Buslover88]

He'll be okay, just a bit shaken up. Like I said I made sure I took care of one of my own.

Okay. Good to know.

[busfan4022]

1914 spotted on the 95E

[Guest]

1914 spotted on the 95E

Spotted #1920 on the 15 Jeffery at 47/Red Line yesterday. She was spotless and shiny!

[jajuan]

Spotted #1920 on the 15 Jeffery at 47/Red Line yesterday. She was spotless and shiny!

So if deliveries did indeed shift from NP to 77th, the split at this point is now 77th/103rd or at the very least deliveries went just a little further than NP. It's not surprising since NP had less 1991 or nonBustracker buses to replace than 103rd.

[BusHunter]

So if deliveries did indeed shift from NP to 77th, the split at this point is now 77th/103rd or at the very least deliveries went just a little further than NP. It's not surprising since NP had less 1991 or nonBustracker buses to replace than 103rd.

Sounds like this will be the last week for #1000 deliveries at 103rd. They'll continue to get #4000's. If all holds true Chicago should soon start receiving the evens. After the next four weeks #5300's and #4400's will only be memories. :(

[greenstreet]

So if deliveries did indeed shift from NP to 77th, the split at this point is now 77th/103rd or at the very least deliveries went just a little further than NP. It's not surprising since NP had less 1991 or nonBustracker buses to replace than 103rd.

By Nov 21, North Park had stopped receiving 1000s at 1909. As jajuan indicated, the split is now 77th/103rd.

Recent deliveries:

103rd = 1924, 1928 & 1930

77th = 1921-1927 (odds)

This brings the total of 1000 series to 949 (95% delivery completion if my math is correct)

Chicago has 206: 1000-1087, 1320-1432, 1434-1437, 1439

Kedzie has 179: 800-809, 900-909, 1162-1225, 1630-1724

North Park has 171: Odds 1433, 1441-1629, 1761-1909

74th has 110: 1088-1161, 1725-1760

77th has 103: 1226-1319, Odds 1911-1927

103rd has 180: Even#’s 1438, 1440-1628, 1762-1924, 1928-1930

[Busjack]

By Nov 21, North Park had stopped receiving 1000s at 1909. As jajuan indicated, the split is now 77th/103rd.

Recent deliveries:

103rd = 1924, 1928 & 1930

77th = 1921-1927 (odds)

This brings the total of 1000 series to 949 (95% delivery completion if my math is correct)

Technically 92% (949/1030), but since the highest number you report is 1930, it would be 90% (929/1030). If you were including the hybrids, it would also be 90% (949/1050), but, in any event, "close enough for government work." Also indicates, only 100 to go.

Now, to my point:

After the swap between NP and 103, the last 69 flyers will go to Chicago and 77th with an odd and even swap between 1961-2028. FG will not be receiving any new buses at all due to the novas being rehabbed now.

... I have my own connections and intelligence system. I already have the NF 1000 series schedule, the NF hybrid artics 4000 series will be given to me at a later date.

Who are you to doubt my info? I don't have to prove anything to you. The proof is in the pudding. Enough said, just sit back and watch it happen and then tell me I never told you!

Apparently, time to find the Jello Pudding Pop truck and back it up to my place. At least Greenstreet identified his source, but you had no information. Next time, don't purport otherwise.

We'll still wait regarding FG. While I don't have any inside information there, I am fairly confident that the allocation of NFs now will not be the one, say, in July 2009, when deliveries of 1000s and 4000s should be mostly complete (maybe a few more 4000s to come, but the pattern should be established by then).

[greenstreet]

Technically 92% (949/1030), but since the highest number you report is 1930, it would be 90% (929/1030). If you were including the hybrids, it would also be 90% (949/1050), but, in any event, "close enough for government work." Also indicates, only 100 to go.

Oh, my logic was flawed in so many ways. CTA includes the 20 hybrid New Flyers (800s and 900s) in the New Flyer count and I forgot to subtract them from the total of buses. Hence, I reported 949 instead of 929. Sloppy.

Next error - I was thinking there were 1,000 1000s, not 1,030 as you correctly pointed out. More sloppiness. I know what the order is.

That's what I get for posting at 2 a.m. Good catch.

[BUSANGEL#1]

Technically 92% (949/1030), but since the highest number you report is 1930, it would be 90% (929/1030). If you were including the hybrids, it would also be 90% (949/1050), but, in any event, "close enough for government work." Also indicates, only 100 to go.

Now, to my point:

Apparently, time to find the Jello Pudding Pop truck and back it up to my place. At least Greenstreet identified his source, but you had no information. Next time, don't purport otherwise.

We'll still wait regarding FG. While I don't have any inside information there, I am fairly confident that the allocation of NFs now will not be the one, say, in July 2009, when deliveries of 1000s and 4000s should be mostly complete (maybe a few more 4000s to come, but the pattern should be established by then).

Oh I had info, you just didnt so lets not go there again. And by the way Chicago is next in line for the swap along with 77th like I stated before. I love being correct once again.

[jajuan]

Oh I had info, you just didnt so lets not go there again. And by the way Chicago is next in line for the swap along with 77th like I stated before. I love being correct once again.

Alright alright you had info. Please let it go already. You won't be deemed correct unless it's actually seen to happen. Given what's happened with bus assignments of late, a curveball can still be thrown to blow your theory. And I still say theory rather than fact because a viable source has not been noted by you.

BTW Busjack, I noticed a slight error in your count. The percentage of 1000s deliveries is 90% as you mentioned, but there are 931 delivered to account for counting 1930 as highest (1000-1930) instead the 929 you stated.

[Busjack]

BTW Busjack, I noticed a slight error in your count. The percentage of 1000s deliveries is 90% as you mentioned, but there are 931 delivered to account for counting 1930 as highest (1000-1930) instead the 929 you stated.

I thought about that. However, Greenstreet didn't have 1926 or 1929 on his list. So, I went with 929, as he did. Then, that would indicate that there are 101 to go (not 100).

I love being correct once again.

Especially when you have been consistently wrong.

In the realm of theories, I tend to go along with BusHunter that until such time as 6000s are retired (and K has the oldest, and probably most abused ones), C won't need much of any 1000s to retire what's left of 5300s, between losing 8 Three Track runs itself, FG and NP losing Three Track runs or enhancements to routes such as 11 when Three Track is over, buses being shifted around after receiving 4000s (as in the case of 1082-1087 and scattered ones in the 1430s), and the natural tendency to scrap both the junk on the street and the junk that is backing it up together. (Update: Add 6000s apparently being transferred from K to C.) The number of 4400s left at 77 indicates that it won't need many to retire them, either. The last 70 or so are clearly up in the air.

With regard to bus retirements, the existence of 5300s at this late date indicates that one can't take seriously CTA Press Releases stating certain dates when buses of a certain age would be retired. The next question is whether you can take the Three-Track deadline seriously (that is too public to ignore, so I guess so) and Huberman saying that the reason for accelerating it is to save the money that would otherwise be spent on alternate bus service. I start wondering about Huberman's pronouncements when the first 4000s are not deployed as he represented, although others have given an alternate reason for that (to fix NABIs).

[jajuan]

I thought about that. However, Greenstreet didn't have 1926 or 1929 on his list. So, I went with 929, as he did. Then, that would indicate that there are 101 to go (not 100).

In the realm of theories, I tend to go along with BusHunter that until such time as 6000s are retired (and K has the oldest, and probably most abused ones), C won't need much of any 1000s to retire what's left of 5300s, between losing 8 Three Track runs itself, FG and NP losing Three Track runs or enhancements to routes such as 11 when Three Track is over, buses being shifted around after receiving 4000s (as in the case of 1082-1087 and scattered ones in the 1430s), and the natural tendency to scrap both the junk on the street and the junk that is backing it up together. The number of 4400s left at 77 indicates that it won't need many to retire them, either. The last 70 or so are clearly up in the air.

With regard to bus retirements, the existence of 5300s at this late date indicates that one can't take seriously CTA Press Releases stating certain dates when buses of a certain age would be retired. The next question is whether you can take the Three-Track deadline seriously (that is too public to ignore, so I guess so) and Huberman saying that the reason for accelerating it is to save the money that would otherwise be spent on alternate bus service. I start wondering about Huberman's pronouncements when the first 4000s are not deployed as he represented, although others have given an alternate reason for that (to fix NABIs).

Ok. I forgot that he didn't have 1926 and 1929 listed. I'll agree with you about there being no real need for 1000s at Chicago. The winddown of Three Track precludes a big need for replacement of the what's got to be a smll few of 5300s by now. At last count there were less 5300s than 4400s and greenstreet has the count down to barely a little over 20 4400s with another member noting 103rd about to retire a few more (possibly their last given greenstreet's count there was 7). So the 5300 count should have widdled down some too from Bushunter's last count with the 4400 count having decreased from his count for those.

On the retirement front itself, I learned with the MAN 4000s that nothing is etched in stone and things change. The retirement for those was given as mid 2003, which turned to year end 2003 when summer 2003 had come and gone. The end of 2003 came and went with there being more Americanas than there are possibly 5300s and 4400s right now (taking into account how fast 4400s at least are dropping out of service) and there were no further pronouncements of when they'd be gone. They were finally all gone by April 2004 a couple weeks after the 148 was introduced into service upon 135 and 145 being the final NP routes to go accessible. This was four months after the last official word stated they would be gone.

[Busjack]

On the retirement front itself, I learned with the MAN 4000s that nothing is etched in stone and things change. The retirement for those was given as mid 2003, which turned to year end 2003 when summer 2003 had come and gone. The end of 2003 came and went with there being more Americanas than there are possibly 5300s and 4400s right now (taking into account how fast 4400s at least are dropping out of service) and there were no further pronouncements of when they'd be gone. They were finally all gone by April 2004 a couple weeks after the 148 was introduced into service upon 135 and 145 being the final NP routes to go accessible. This was four months after the last official word stated they would be gone.

I was somewhat surprised that 60 or so survived after the Novas arrived, and it took the NABIs to replace them.

There may be a difference, as you indicate, the CTA did not have a pledge when all routes would become accessible, just that they would become accessible when there were enough new buses to cover them. On the other hand, there are the current pronouncements that BusTracker will be system-wide by February. While, again, we probably have to take that with a grain of salt, given the technical difficulties described by Carole Brown, one would be fairly confident that the bus replacement schedule is taking that into account.

[jajuan]

I was somewhat surprised that 60 or so survived after the Novas arrived, and it took the NABIs to replace them.

There may be a difference, as you indicate, the CTA did not have a pledge when all routes would become accessible, just that they would become accessible when there were enough new buses to cover them. On the other hand, there are the current pronouncements that BusTracker will be system-wide by February. While, again, we probably have to take that with a grain of salt, given the technical difficulties described by Carole Brown, one would be fairly confident that the bus replacement schedule is taking that into account.

This was one retirement delay that I wasn't too upset about because, in my opinion, the garages that had them (K, 74th, NP, 103rd, and briefly FG) had boring fleets (except FG which got Novas) after they were gone up until the 1000s started arriving.

[BusHunter]

In the realm of theories, I tend to go along with BusHunter that until such time as 6000s are retired (and K has the oldest, and probably most abused ones), C won't need much of any 1000s to retire what's left of 5300s, between losing 8 Three Track runs itself, FG and NP losing Three Track runs or enhancements to routes such as 11 when Three Track is over, buses being shifted around after receiving 4000s (as in the case of 1082-1087 and scattered ones in the 1430s), and the natural tendency to scrap both the junk on the street and the junk that is backing it up together. (Update: Add 6000s apparently being transferred from K to C.) The number of 4400s left at 77 indicates that it won't need many to retire them, either. The last 70 or so are clearly up in the air.

I think myself what going to happen is that Chicago and 77th will receive all the #1900's and #2000's and all buses received after the 1991's are gone will translate to 77th transfering back the #6800's to Fg and Chicago transferring #1000's to 74th. It will be all about retiring the #6000's by then. Next week after the last 3 TMC's leave 103rd, they will be forced to either increase the fleet there or start coughing up buses to the nearest interested party. Probably either 74th or Chicago if they want to be done with the 1991's in a hurry and possibly force them to give up more #1000's to 74th. Alot can still happen.

[Busjack]

... and all buses received after the 1991's are gone will translate to 77th transfering back the #6800's to Fg and Chicago transferring #1000's to 74th. It will be all about retiring the #6000's by then. ... Alot can still happen.

There are only two viable theories, given that there are maybe 50-60 4400s, 5300s, and 5800s left (or even fewer), and 101 1000s to go:

• FG gets 1000s
  
• or as you indicate, 77 gets most of the 1000s that remain, transfers Novas to FG, and FG pretty much becomes a Nova "garage," like Archer. There is plenty of precedent for 77 dropping an existing series onto another garage.
  

As usual, we will have to wait and see. But since almost half the buses will be in one fungible series, moving buses around is now to be expected.

[trainman8119]

As usual, we will have to wait and see. But since almost half the buses will be in one fungible series, moving buses around is now to be expected.

O, yippeeee !!!!!!!! $$$$$$$$$

[jajuan]

I think myself what going to happen is that Chicago and 77th will receive all the #1900's and #2000's and all buses received after the 1991's are gone will translate to 77th transfering back the #6800's to Fg and Chicago transferring #1000's to 74th. It will be all about retiring the #6000's by then. Next week after the last 3 TMC's leave 103rd, they will be forced to either increase the fleet there or start coughing up buses to the nearest interested party. Probably either 74th or Chicago if they want to be done with the 1991's in a hurry and possibly force them to give up more #1000's to 74th. Alot can still happen.

Actually according to the homepage updates, those last 3 TMCs are already gone fron 103rd, so it's already hard to see them continue to get more 1000s from the current deliveries now that they've started getting 4000s too.

[Guest]

Actually according to the homepage updates, those last 3 TMCs are already gone fron 103rd, so it's already hard to see them continue to get more 1000s from the current deliveries now that they've started getting 4000s too.

I know its a long shot but I still hope some 1000s can make it to FG. but maybe everyones right FG may become mostly Novas.

[greenstreet]

one additional New Flyer 1000 to 77th (#1931) as of Dec. 4

[BusHunter]

I know its a long shot but I still hope some 1000s can make it to FG. but maybe everyones right FG may become mostly Novas.

Yeah, I need to print up some T- shirts saying Reverse the curse along the top with a #1000 pictured below for all the FG fans!! If you would have told me at the beginning of the #1000's delivery that over a thousand new buses would be received and FG would get nothing I'd have to say your nuts.

[trainman8119]

How about this. If you would have told me that the CTA was receiving

2000 new buses to help offset the cost of maintenance of old beat up

buses, but yet spent a good percentage of that savings on the amount of bus shuffling

to put the 2000 buses in place, I think I would have told you you

were nuts !!!!!

[Busjack]

How about this. If you would have told me that the CTA was receiving

2000 new buses to help offset the cost of maintenance of old beat up

buses, but yet spent a good percentage of that savings on the amount of bus shuffling

to put the 2000 buses in place, I think I would have told you you

were nuts !!!!!

Or, a year after the press conference at Archer, with da Mare, that Archer wouldn't have any.