Minneapolis "t" Buses....

[anfboymn]

I hear Metro Transit is adding 12 new light rail cars to the 55 line. Anyone have additional information?

[Tcmetro]

An order of 59 cars will begin delivery this fall, going through 2014. These will be for Hiawatha LRT expansion and Central Corridor LRT.

http://www.metrocouncil.org/transportation/ccorridor/CCMC/2012/20120314PPT.pdf

[Guest]

An order of 59 cars will begin delivery this fall, going through 2014. These will be for Hiawatha LRT expansion and Central Corridor LRT.

http://www.metrocouncil.org/transportation/ccorridor/CCMC/2012/20120314PPT.pdf

I just got back from Minni two weeks ago. I rode on the #16 down University ave. Needless to say it was a trying commute because of the construction! But I have to say I was impressed by the progress of the new

University ave Extension.

[Tcmetro]

University LRT work is progressing much quicker than last year. I wouldn't be surprised if all the tracks are finished by the end of the year. Then work on the power systems, signals, and testing next year!

I saw a Gillig Phantom, ex-Maple Grove MG03 running on the Bluexpress. Too bad I couldn't get a picture.

In other news, Metro Transit wants to cut back service on the 46. Reduced frequencies in the peaks, early morning, and late nights, as well as some cutting back on the span of service. I suppose keeping the 146 while doubling the peak frequency of the 46 led to too much service. Changes would happen in September.

http://metrotransit.org/TransitArticles/Story.aspx?pageid=314&mid=431&articleid=781

Route changes begin next week. The 19 will go to 8-10 min during peaks, to 12 min during midday and evening hours. The 10 will have more trips extended to Northtown on Sunday evenings (a much needed improvement), as well as more trips extended to 53rd Ave and Sunday afternoon frequencies being bumped up to 15 minutes. Also, a new 74C to provide Sunday service to Sun Ray.

http://metrotransit.org/TransitArticles/Story.aspx?pageid=18&mid=393&articleid=764

Minnetonka Service Study results to be presented on May 23rd:

http://metrotransit.org/TransitArticles/Story.aspx?pageid=18&mid=393&articleid=767

CCLRT bus restructuring concept plan to be revealed soon (sounds like on the 15th):

http://councilmeetings.metc.state.mn.us/council_meetings/2012/0509/0509_2012_134.pdf

East Creek ramp construction to start soon:

http://swtransit.org/East_Creek_Construction.html

MVTA Summer newsletter: 444 Changes, 2 new Gilligs delivered and 7 on the way for Fall, Rosemount Station construction, AVTS opens in July.

http://www.mvta.com/uploads/summer_3.pdf

LPA to be chosen soon for Bottineau Transitway. It looks like they want to go for LRT to 610 and Broadway via Wirth Park:

http://bottransit.org/library/2011-2012_deis_scoping_documents.htm

[exitzero]

I found this interesting:

Metro Transit XD Demo?

[Tcmetro]

I found this interesting:

Metro Transit XD Demo?

Nice find, exitzero! That is one of two Xcelsiors for Metro Transit. I believe the bus has a new hybrid system, and was bought to test it out. It will be very nice to ride these, as well as add some diversity to the fleet.

[anfboymn]

Nice looking bus!!! I'd love to see a bunch of those in the fleet.

[Tcmetro]

Here is a very useful document showing the status of all of the regional transitway (LRT, BRT, HSR, major railway stations, etc) proposals, including financial analysis.

http://councilmeetings.metc.state.mn.us/TranspAdvBd/PolicyCommittee/2012/May%2010/GuidewaysReportfinal.pdf

Minnetonka Transit Study also released:

http://www.metrotransit.org/minnetonka-study

[MVTArider]

Thanks for posting the updates TC.

I found this interesting:

Awesome, missed those photos, thanks for sharing. It'll be nice to have a bus with rear window Looks good overall, but it also looks slightly ugly IMO in the mostly white Metro Transit livery. the Metro scheme would look nice on it though.

[Tcmetro]

Metro Transit's draft CCLRT bus restructuring will be presented to the Transportation Committee on Monday. The changes are:

8: Eliminated. Use 67.

16: Runs every 20 minutes from Downtown St. Paul to Oak & Washington. Owl service continues to serve Downtown Minneapolis.

50: Eliminated. Use LRT. The U of M may or may not provide a new shuttle to replace service to Huron Station on I-94.

62: Sunday daytime service will be improved to 30 minutes. Route 67 on the to Signal Hills will become part of Route 62.

63: Service will be improved from 20-60 minutes to 20 minutes during the daytime and evenings. Night service will be improved to every 30 minutes. Service will be extended to Raymond and University via Summit, Cretin, and University.

65: Daytime service will be improved to every 20 minutes from every 30 on Weekdays and every 75 on Weekends. Evening and Night service will be improved to every 30 minutes, currently every 60 minutes on Weekdays and non-existant on Weekends. Service will no longer serve Selby Av and Downtown St Paul, and will instead be extended to Dale and Grand.

67: Service will be extended to Hiawatha and Franklin via University and Franklin, replacing Route 8. Service levels will be improved to every 20 minutes during the day, and every 30 at night. On Sundays, service on Franklin will operate every 60 minutes. Service will also deviate to Riverside and 26th to serve the Hospital, Augsburg, and the high rises. Service will no longer operate south of Downtown, and will instead become part of Route 62.

83: New route from W 7th and Albion via Lexington, Energy Park, and Snelling to Como and Snelling. Will operate every 30 minutes, day and night.

84: Will operate every 10 minutes day, 15 evening, and 30 night. The D branch will operate via Montreal to W 7th and Maynard, while the other branch will use Ford Pkwy to the 46 St LRT station.

87: Will be improved to 20 min during the day, with new evening service every 30 minutes, and night service every 60 minutes. Will be rerouted via Cleveland, Marshall, and Cretin to University.

94: All service will operate via the D branch, every 10-15 minutes peak hours only. Will continue to serve Park River Plaza.

134: Hours reduced. Use LRT and 87.

144: Eliminated. Use LRT and 84.

94, 353, 355, 365, 375, and 452: Will not serve Huron Station if the U of M does not provide a replacement for 50 short trips.

Green Line LRT: Every 10 minutes day and evening, 30 night.

http://councilmeetings.metc.state.mn.us/Transportation/2012/0514/0514_2012_152%20combined.pdf

-----

I like a lot of the changes, with a few exceptions. I don't think that the 16 needs to run every 20 minutes, especially since stop spacing was reduced to every half-mile for the LRT. I also think the 134 could be eliminated. The 21D should be extended to University and Snelling to provide service every 7 minutes during peak, every 10 minutes during the day and evening hours, and every 15 minutes at night. Also the 87 and 63 could follow the same alignment and provide 10 minute service between Grand and the Raymond LRT station. Longer term it would be nice to see buses every 1/2 mile, and more routes converted to frequent, crosstown service.

-----

Also from the Transportation Committee:

11 more MCI's: 7 for Metro Transit 288, 351, and 467; 2 for MTS (to replace 1999-vintage 6051 and 6052); and 2 for Prior Lake (Bye Bye Blue Birds!).

http://councilmeetings.metc.state.mn.us/Transportation/2012/0514/0514_2012_99.pdf

38 Eldorado Minibuses for MTS contract routes and Transit Link DAR. I suppose a number of lines have minibuses that need replacement. The 219, 223, 225, 227, 364, 417, 540, 604, and 615 all come to mind.

http://councilmeetings.metc.state.mn.us/Transportation/2012/0514/0514_2012_100.pdf

30 Gillig BRT's to come in 2013 to replace Phantoms:

http://councilmeetings.metc.state.mn.us/Transportation/2012/0514/0514_2012_154.pdf

[exitzero]

Metro Transit's draft CCLRT bus restructuring will be presented to the Transportation Committee on Monday. The changes are:

8: Eliminated. Use 67.

16: Runs every 20 minutes from Downtown St. Paul to Oak & Washington. Owl service continues to serve Downtown Minneapolis.

50: Eliminated. Use LRT. The U of M may or may not provide a new shuttle to replace service to Huron Station on I-94.

62: Sunday daytime service will be improved to 30 minutes. Route 67 on the to Signal Hills will become part of Route 62.

63: Service will be improved from 20-60 minutes to 20 minutes during the daytime and evenings. Night service will be improved to every 30 minutes. Service will be extended to Raymond and University via Summit, Cretin, and University.

65: Daytime service will be improved to every 20 minutes from every 30 on Weekdays and every 75 on Weekends. Evening and Night service will be improved to every 30 minutes, currently every 60 minutes on Weekdays and non-existant on Weekends. Service will no longer serve Selby Av and Downtown St Paul, and will instead be extended to Dale and Grand.

67: Service will be extended to Hiawatha and Franklin via University and Franklin, replacing Route 8. Service levels will be improved to every 20 minutes during the day, and every 30 at night. On Sundays, service on Franklin will operate every 60 minutes. Service will also deviate to Riverside and 26th to serve the Hospital, Augsburg, and the high rises. Service will no longer operate south of Downtown, and will instead become part of Route 62.

83: New route from W 7th and Albion via Lexington, Energy Park, and Snelling to Como and Snelling. Will operate every 30 minutes, day and night.

84: Will operate every 10 minutes day, 15 evening, and 30 night. The D branch will operate via Montreal to W 7th and Maynard, while the other branch will use Ford Pkwy to the 46 St LRT station.

87: Will be improved to 20 min during the day, with new evening service every 30 minutes, and night service every 60 minutes. Will be rerouted via Cleveland, Marshall, and Cretin to University.

94: All service will operate via the D branch, every 10-15 minutes peak hours only. Will continue to serve Park River Plaza.

134: Hours reduced. Use LRT and 87.

144: Eliminated. Use LRT and 84.

94, 353, 355, 365, 375, and 452: Will not serve Huron Station if the U of M does not provide a replacement for 50 short trips.

Green Line LRT: Every 10 minutes day and evening, 30 night.

http://councilmeetings.metc.state.mn.us/Transportation/2012/0514/0514_2012_152%20combined.pdf

-----

I like a lot of the changes, with a few exceptions. I don't think that the 16 needs to run every 20 minutes, especially since stop spacing was reduced to every half-mile for the LRT. I also think the 134 could be eliminated. The 21D should be extended to University and Snelling to provide service every 7 minutes during peak, every 10 minutes during the day and evening hours, and every 15 minutes at night. Also the 87 and 63 could follow the same alignment and provide 10 minute service between Grand and the Raymond LRT station. Longer term it would be nice to see buses every 1/2 mile, and more routes converted to frequent, crosstown service.

Finally nice to see Lex get some bus service, but there was a reason there was none there before: nobody rode it.

The 16 should continue running to downtown Minneapolis. Not everybody's gonna want to use the train and, if something goes wrong with the train, the 16 would be a nice backup. Why make people transfer at Oak and Washington?

The 94 should continue running all day for the same reason. They've got 4 buses an hour during the midday on weekdays...Metro Transit will be the first to yank some service that's not carrying its weight, so if ridership is holding up enough to maintain 15-minute headways during the day, why funnel all that ridership onto the slow boondoggle train?

I don't see why they don't just run the 67 to downtown Minneapolis...interline it with the 61...and have a nice loop as well as a direct link with the Green Line.

And WHY in the world do they want to call it the damn Green Line? What is wrong with Central Corridor?

[MVTArider]

And WHY in the world do they want to call it the damn Green Line? What is wrong with Central Corridor?

Better yet, why brand it the "Metro" system? I still wish they would've picked a more creative name besides something that seems to be used by 1/3 of NA transit systems. And yes, people will still be calling them the Hiawatha, Central, and Cedar lines, they should keep the names while also adding colors (Blue, Green, Red) to make it easier for visitors.

[Busjack]

...

The 16 should continue running to downtown Minneapolis. Not everybody's gonna want to use the train and, if something goes wrong with the train, the 16 would be a nice backup. Why make people transfer at Oak and Washington?

I can't speak for Minnesota directly, but, as a general rule, transit authorities do not engage in large capital projects just to have them be redundant. Especially at a time when operating funds are tight. There is every incentive to transfer passengers to the more efficient mode, which is LRT to carry maybe 120 passengers, and doesn't burn diesel fuel.

Basically, what you propose is similar to what Rep. Bill Lipinski imposed when the Orange Line opened, i.e. keep the buses for the old folks. That died out pretty quickly. The difference was that Lipinski was the head of the U.S. House committee in charge of transit funding, so CTA had to placate him. I doubt that you are.:lol:

[artthouwill]

I can't speak for Minnesota directly, but, as a general rule, transit authorities do not engage in large capital projects just to have them be redundant. Especially at a time when operating funds are tight. There is every incentive to transfer passengers to the more efficient mode, which is LRT to carry maybe 120 passengers, and doesn't burn diesel fuel.

Basically, what you propose is similar to what Rep. Bill Lipinski imposed when the Orange Line opened, i.e. keep the buses for the old folks. That died out pretty quickly. The difference was that Lipinski was the head of the U.S. House committee in charge of transit funding, so CTA had to placate him. I doubt that you are.

While I agree with you on your redundancy point, I understand his point concerning that route. It's been years since I was last in the Twin Cities, but if I remember correctly, Oak and Washington is just outside of downtown. To give a Chicagolike analogy, imagine the 56 Milwaukee route ending at Clinton and Lake Green/Pink Line station forcing a transfer to the L.

It seems crazy to force a transfer that close to downtown unless ridership is very low on Route 16, which I would imagine at twenty minute headways.

To refresh my memory, I googled the intersection and it is near the U of M campus, similar to UIC Halsted is to downtown.

[Busjack]

...

To refresh my memory, I googled the intersection and it is near the U of M campus, similar to UIC Halsted is to downtown.

Again, the Minnesota people can better address this, but there were references in the linked documents to "U of M would have to provide its own shuttle."

And, as for mentioning UIC-Halsted, 42 Halsted Downtown was one of the routes that lingered after the Orange Line opened until the big cutback in 1977. According to Bill V., it was canceled when the Orange Line opened, came back a few months later, but was canceled again. So, in the example you gave, someone on 8 does have to transfer at Archer or UIC.

[artthouwill]

Again, the Minnesota people can better address this, but there were references in the linked documents to "U of M would have to provide its own shuttle."

And, as for mentioning UIC-Halsted, 42 Halsted Downtown was one of the routes that lingered after the Orange Line opened until the big cutback in 1977. According to Bill V., it was canceled when the Orange Line opened, came back a few months later, but was canceled again. So, in the example you gave, someone on 8 does have to transfer at Archer or UIC.

Yet the 44, which was a popular route to downtown was truncated to serve the.Orange Line, yet the 24, a route that never carried a lot of people, continues to operate downtown, even though ir parallels the Red Line and even serves the Chinatown Red station. I wonder what other Minnesotans think about that particular route change.

In the case of the 44 in Chicago, ridership has gone downward since that change, and I've seen Bridgeporters actually opt for 35th to Red service.

[Busjack]

Yet the 44, which was a popular route to downtown was truncated to serve the.Orange Line, yet the 24, a route that never carried a lot of people, continues to operate downtown, ...

The frequency of service was radically cut down (I think also in the 97 cuts), and it seems like its main purpose is to serve Simeon HS.

But we are polluting their thread. :o

[exitzero]

I can't speak for Minnesota directly, but, as a general rule, transit authorities do not engage in large capital projects just to have them be redundant. Especially at a time when operating funds are tight. There is every incentive to transfer passengers to the more efficient mode, which is LRT to carry maybe 120 passengers, and doesn't burn diesel fuel.

Then they should cut the entire route and rededicate those service hours to other routes.

According to the proposal, the bus runs the whole route when the train isn't running. When it is, it covers 7/8 of the existing route. If you're gonna complement the train 7/8 of the way, it makes sense to complement it the whole way. The service hours they get from paring back the 94 (the freeway express version of the link between both downtowns) would more than make up for it.

[Busjack]

Then they should cut the entire route and rededicate those service hours to other routes.

Then, I guess you ought to go to the public hearing (link to the notice thereof in Tcmetro's post).

I'm sure, though, that you will hear there the usual "we can't commit limited resources to both" if you are really advocating for retaining duplicate service. They might be receptive to the "cut more" argument, although then they would have to post for a subsequent hearing.

[Tcmetro]

Finally nice to see Lex get some bus service, but there was a reason there was none there before: nobody rode it.

It will definitely be nice to see a bus on Lexington. It did run back in 2001 in the Sector 1/2 restructurings, but was chopped the next year, probably because of low ridership.

The 16 should continue running to downtown Minneapolis. Not everybody's gonna want to use the train and, if something goes wrong with the train, the 16 would be a nice backup. Why make people transfer at Oak and Washington?

I imagine that basically 90+% of people are going to use the LRT, especially since the stop-spacing is every half mile. The only people who are going to keep using the 16 are those who can't walk 2 blocks to a station. Personally, I think that the 16 should run every 30 minutes, and be extended up University and 4th to Hennepin, and to the East Side of St. Paul instead of Downtown St. Paul.

As for train interruptions, MT has been pretty good at busting out a huge fleet of artics out of nowhere when the Hiawatha Line has problems.

The 94 should continue running all day for the same reason. They've got 4 buses an hour during the midday on weekdays...Metro Transit will be the first to yank some service that's not carrying its weight, so if ridership is holding up enough to maintain 15-minute headways during the day, why funnel all that ridership onto the slow boondoggle train?

The nice thing about the 94 is that the run time from Downtown to Downtown is 25 minutes. Which is ideal for the synchronized transfers to the 30-minute frequency routes. If people have to take the Light Rail, those long bus trips could have upwards of 30 minutes of extra travel time required.

I don't see why they don't just run the 67 to downtown Minneapolis...interline it with the 61...and have a nice loop as well as a direct link with the Green Line.

I'd rather like to see the 67 extended to Hennepin and Franklin to replace the 2 (and eventually the 21 St Station on the SW Line), and over to the East Side for better crosstown routes. There are plenty of transfer opportunities to reach downtown.

And WHY in the world do they want to call it the damn Green Line? What is wrong with Central Corridor?

I'm not particularily fond of the choice of colors and the "METRO" name. I would have preferred named lines. I believe the choice of "Green Line" came from the so-called "investment in green technology" in the corridor, which means nothing to basically everyone. The original proposal was "Gold Line" because of the Golden Triangle industrial park, as well as the complement color of the U of M. Ideally, "Red Line" would be used, as it would show that it is the most important line. Instead the Cedar BRT (a relatively unimportant line) got that color, as the sidewalks will be red for a whole 10 blocks on the corridor. *sigh*

[Tcmetro]

Again, the Minnesota people can better address this, but there were references in the linked documents to "U of M would have to provide its own shuttle."

And, as for mentioning UIC-Halsted, 42 Halsted Downtown was one of the routes that lingered after the Orange Line opened until the big cutback in 1977. According to Bill V., it was canceled when the Orange Line opened, came back a few months later, but was canceled again. So, in the example you gave, someone on 8 does have to transfer at Archer or UIC.

The U of M shuttle would replace the 50 to Huron Station (the only branch off of the 16/50 mainline), which is a Westbound, AM-Only bus that connects WB I-94 express routes to the U of M campus.

As for how the 16 and the Light Rail interact, it could become a [Chicago] Lake St. situation, where the El remained and the parallel bus is eliminated. Amusingly, both situations involve a Green Line and a 16 bus.

[exitzero]

It will definitely be nice to see a bus on Lexington. It did run back in 2001 in the Sector 1/2 restructurings, but was chopped the next year, probably because of low ridership.

Check it! It was called the 83 then, too.

As for train interruptions, MT has been pretty good at busting out a huge fleet of artics out of nowhere when the Hiawatha Line has problems.

True.

The nice thing about the 94 is that the run time from Downtown to Downtown is 25 minutes. Which is ideal for the synchronized transfers to the 30-minute frequency routes. If people have to take the Light Rail, those long bus trips could have upwards of 30 minutes of extra travel time required.

Exactly - this is why the route should continue to run all day - it will provide a scheduled alternative to the train. I can fully understand cutting the 94BC but all those people who don't wanna d*ck around with the train will hop right back into their cars.

I'd rather like to see the 67 extended to Hennepin and Franklin to replace the 2 (and eventually the 21 St Station on the SW Line), and over to the East Side for better crosstown routes. There are plenty of transfer opportunities to reach downtown.

That's actually not a bad idea, though I wonder if curtailing the 2 to Riverside and Franklin would snuff out ridership in that corridor. A lotta folks commute from Lowry Hill to the U which is why ridership went up after they extended the eastern terminus. Running the 67 straight through would cut that feed off by forcing a transfer.

I'm not particularily fond of the choice of colors and the "METRO" name. I would have preferred named lines. I believe the choice of "Green Line" came from the so-called "investment in green technology" in the corridor, which means nothing to basically everyone. The original proposal was "Gold Line" because of the Golden Triangle industrial park, as well as the complement color of the U of M. Ideally, "Red Line" would be used, as it would show that it is the most important line. Instead the Cedar BRT (a relatively unimportant line) got that color, as the sidewalks will be red for a whole 10 blocks on the corridor. *sigh*

Those people are delirious. Green technology, indeed. Of course, the Central Corridor isn't that fantastic a name either, but it was much better than some unimaginative colored line which people might or might not associate with supposedly environment-friendly transportation agenda (which it isn't, really).

Hiawatha was unique. Southwest a little less so, but I certainly liked the theme they started off with. But then, "METRO" doesn't ever really finish anything they start completely before going off in a totally different direction...remember the route numbering scheme was supposed to eliminate all route branch letters? :P

[Tcmetro]

I'm surprised the old 83 didn't go as far south as Selby, Grand, or Randolph. Back then the buses on Grand and Randolph were every 15 minutes and Selby every 20 minutes.

My idea for the 2 would be dependent on upgrading a lot of other bus routes to higher frequencies to make connections more bearable. For instance, the 7 and the 22 could be upgraded to every 15 minutes to improve West Bank and Riverside connections. As for Lowry Hill, the 113, 114, and 115 provide fast service to the U; however, midday service is basically non-existant.

The only bus system I ever came across that was more confusing than Minneapolis' was Pittsburgh's. Over there, a different letter meant an entirely different route, and every route had somewhere between 5 and 30 variations! One of their bus routes had 4 trips per day, with 3 variants! Now, there system is far more rationalized, no more letters or variations. Their service is far more worse than ours, on the other hand.

--

Some more updates:

According to the Transportation Committee video from last week, all of the base order of Gillig buses have been delivered, and 247 of the 300 options have been procured. The 30 buses will be part of a 75 bus order for 2013. A new 5-year contract will be put out for bid later this year.

http://metrocouncil.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?view_id=2&clip_id=1317

SW Transit May meeting agenda. Not much new. It sounds like a route from EP to Plymouth/Maple Grove is being explored. SWT is also looking at the old NF artics from Ottawa for State Fair service. Sounds like a waste of money, IMO. Also, some stats on Regional Dial-A-Ride on the last page.

http://swtransit.org/sites/d82719c7-9b33-46b8-a7af-e5577d7145af/uploads/Packet_5.23.12.pdf

MVTA May meeting packet. Not much new, as well. A presentation is included about the stages of various Cedar BRT projects.

http://www.mvta.com/uploads/may_board_packet.pdf

Plymouth May meeting packet.

http://plymouthmn.gov/Modules/ShowDocument.aspx?documentid=7898

CCLRT 50% finished.

http://www.metrocouncil.org/transportation/ccorridor/newsAlerts/HalfwayMark20120514.pdf

[MVTArider]

If 83 goes all the way down Lex to W. 7th/Albion that might make the difference. One more major connecting arterial route, and if nothing else the more direct service from W. 7th to Trader Joes will be useful for me

I sort of like the name University Line myself, since it actually goes to the University, and oh wow, it travel mostly on University Avenue too. Instead of Metro I'll restate my TEN name I mentioned before on Minnescraper (transit express network, take TEN). Also something like LINKER might've worked. (That is the point after all of the overall network, to link to different major points.)

It'll be interesting to see who gets the next 5 year contract, and if it will be only 40' or also 35' or 30' for possible neighborhood feeder route vehicles*.

I have no data or inside info to back this up of course, but based on what I've seen as of late, here's my opinion of the chance each manufacturer has:

- 1st, Gillig: Parts compatibility with existing fleet, better aftermarket support, etc.

- 2nd, New Flyer: Xcelsior model benefits might have a real draw, plus the political side of them being MN built.

- 3rd, NovaBus: Seems to be gaining popularity, and the model is well proven.

- 4th, NABI: I haven't heard anything good about the LFW model lately, and after riding on Pace ones a couple weeks ago, I still say Gilligs are a better quality.

- Wildcard: Eldo ???

- Millenium:

From a bus geek perspective I'd like something besides more Gilligs, but honestly from a rider perspective I'm really liking Gillig a lot.

*I can't watch those videos since they aren't compatible with my operating system, so sorry if this was already covered.

EDIT: Also thanks for posting the links TC, wonder what the chances of that resident looking for a rule banning First Transit drivers from Plymouth convenience stores are? :rolleyes:

Edited May 20, 2012 by MVTArider

[Tcmetro]

Nova would be my preferred option, but I'm thinking MT's going to go with Gillig or New Flyer. It would be interesting if we got a bunch of Xcelsiors around here.