Minneapolis "t" Buses....

[PwcrLinux]

Finally, without further delay, METRO Red is in service. Here is a ride video, taken this morning, of the line running northbound:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnSIRQrUvyI

I did not get many photos due to time constraints and the crowds of people. Plus I plan on going fanning next week anyways:

I really like those LFX, a smooth ride, comparable to the Gilligs and D40LF, but a nice tight interior without any rattling panels or squeaky windows.

Hello! Yep I rode this one, they're nice NovaBus LFS and white LED sign.. Also I saw MVTA's new Gillig BRT LF with new color schemes.. it's gray on side and green on the top.

[geneking7320]

I visited Minneapolis back in 2009 rode a few Phantoms and Gillig LF (both BRT and regular fronts).

From a rider's standpoint which bus do you prefer the Gillig LF BRT or the latest Nova LFX?

Just curious.

[MVTArider]

Confirms that they are paying a bit more than Pace (for Eldorados) but about $55K less than CTA for Novas.

Any indication if they are Gillig BRTs, or the flat faced low floor?

I'd like to know how much of the difference is stuff like Voith instead of Allison transmission (I've heard Allison is cheaper), flooring material, and window quality. I have no official verification of the exact model, but they should be about the same Gillig LF with BRT front. The options for full BRT styling noted will be used for the arterial rapid bus service lines and perhaps for METRO Orange (Unless they're going with artics right away for that line).

I visited Minneapolis back in 2009 rode a few Phantoms and Gillig LF (both BRT and regular fronts).

From a rider's standpoint which bus do you prefer the Gillig LF BRT or the latest Nova LFX?

Just curious.

Good question. It's actually sort of a tough call, on one hand the LFS/X interior is much nicer with larger windows, a nice open design, rear window, and wider front door. On the other side, the Gilligs (2010+) have IMO a quieter powertrain sound and perhaps a better HVAC setup. Both have similar ride quality. Both seem to rattle a little on the bumps. Overall though I think the Nova Bus comes out ahead.

[PwcrLinux]

I saw bus 1500 downtown Minneapolis last week. How many more are in the process of coming online?

I saw the 1519 on bus line 3 in dwtn mpls.

[PwcrLinux]

Last year, The Metro Transit fleet 500's series had been scrapped used for emergency drill and homeland security. (Probably used in Ramsey, MN and most of North, Hennepin County and Allina ambulances on the scenes).

[MVTArider]

I saw the 1519 on bus line 3 in dwtn mpls.

There should be 75 coming in altogether. Only a few 700 series units remain active I believe, and most are simply on standby status for the Fair.

[MVTArider]

Confirms that they are paying a bit more than Pace (for Eldorados) but about $55K less than CTA for Novas.

Any indication if they are Gillig BRTs, or the flat faced low floor?

Sort of comapring apples to oranges, but apparently KCMO's 2 new 30' CNG Gillig LF cost $420,000 each: http://www.kansascity.com/2013/07/10/4339213/natural-gas-transit-buses-make.html

The article states CNG adds $40,000 to the cost, so I guess a 30' Gillig diesel would be $380,000 then.

[Busjack]

Sort of comapring apples to oranges, but apparently KCMO's 2 new 30' CNG Gillig LF cost $420,000 each: http://www.kansascity.com/2013/07/10/4339213/natural-gas-transit-buses-make.html

The article states CNG adds $40,000 to the cost, so I guess a 30' Gillig diesel would be $380,000 then.

That link didn't indicate the brand of bus, but a search came up with this one, which has a picture of a Gillig.

However, I am not so sure about the numbers. If a 30' diesel Gillig would be $380,000, then it would be about $75,000 more than Pace paid for 30 foot ElDorados.

We'll get some indication about the relative cost of 40 foot diesel or gas buses when Pace posts the award for the CNGs, which it has not yet.

[MVTArider]

Metro Transit:

• Recent Photos:
• 1100 and 7100 series units are being repainted and getting their standard mid-life "overhaul". (Basically a through checkup from what I understand.)
• Snelling ABRT study is underway, one document of interest features the bus liveries and a nice overview: 2013-06-24-Transportation-Cmte_ABRT-Quarterly-Update.pdf
• Phantoms are still fairly easy to find despite their dwindling numbers. Also the 1500 series units are out and about, I rode 1529 on the 67A and it's basically the same as the 1400 units. I believe it had the same ZF 6 speed trans. too.

METRO:

• New Go-To card machines have been installed at stations on METRO Red Line, also METRO Blue line bus bridges are being used due to track maintenace during some overnight periods.
• METRO Green construction is mainly complete, I have to wonder if they could even speed up the finishing touches on the west end a bit and run a short turn service this fall for the U.
• Here's a look at Central Station in DT St. Paul as well:

Maple Grove Transit:

• All three XD60 are now in service:
• Also here's an MCI and I finally got a doorside photo of a D40LF:

Metro Bus:

• A bit outside of MT turf, but St. Cloud has ordered 10 New Flyer units, presumably XN35, for delivery in March 2014. They also recently demoed a MiDi. I would have gone up there to see it, had I known

Misc:

• Here's an awesome map someone put together of TCM transit in the future: http://www.flickr.com/photos/98584035@N07/9241967102/

[geneking7320]

MVTARider I have a question for you:

Which bus do you prefer the D60LFR or the XD60?

Gene King

BTW, nice pics in post #984.

[Bus Driver Dude]

[Bus Driver Dude]

http://youtu.be/vl-CuLTd7-w

[MVTArider]

I've seen up to 235 in test train consists on the BLUE during the 11pm-12am hour. Anything higher than that yet?

MVTARider I have a question for you:

Which bus do you prefer the D60LFR or the XD60?

Gene King

BTW, nice pics in post #984.

Thanks, sorry I missed your question before. So far I can't really offer an informed opinion as I would really need to ride an XD60 and a D60LFR in the same system to get a fair comparison. (I have not ridden the MGT ones yet) I will say though that the RGRTA-RTS XD60 I rode back in October and the Brampton ZUM XDE60 I rode in April were very nice! From general observations so far I think the X_60 are a bit nicer, they have better visibility and more open space. There is more headroom in the rear too, I've banged my head quite a few times on the overhangs in the LF/LFR models when standing up from the rear seats.

[geneking7320]

I've seen up to 235 in test train consists on the BLUE during the 11pm-12am hour. Anything higher than that yet?

Thanks, sorry I missed your question before. So far I can't really offer an informed opinion as I would really need to ride an XD60 and a D60LFR in the same system to get a fair comparison. (I have not ridden the MGT ones yet) I will say though that the RGRTA-RTS XD60 I rode back in October and the Brampton ZUM XDE60 I rode in April were very nice! From general observations so far I think the X_60 are a bit nicer, they have better visibility and more open space. There is more headroom in the rear too, I've banged my head quite a few times on the overhangs in the LF/LFR models when standing up from the rear seats.

Thanks for the reply! I wonder what is in that overhang in the rear...

[MetroShadow]

Looks like the Green Line (the St-Paul - Minneapolis Link) is a go for Mid-June (and days after my conference there. boo)

Link

[exitzero]

Saw the recent schedule changes for the system. They started a new route down NE Broadway in Minneapolis that...ZOMG...doesn't go downtown!! And, double ZOMG - doesn't have a single branch letter!

But I'm curious, though - didn't the old MTC try to run service down Broadway before? Was that the old Minneapolis Route 3 or 11? From my understanding it didn't work all that well.

Good on them, though, for opening up new routes.

[Tcmetro]

The 11 was the old Lowry Crosstown, and the 7 was the Washington-Lowry bus. In 1997, the 32 replaced both of those routes and was extended to Rosedale Transit Center. The service to Downtown via Washington was cut back to rush-hour service only. In 2007 the service was slightly restructured to simplify service. The 32Y branch became the 19Y. The Washington Av N service was reinstated on Route 7 during rush hours (it has since been eliminated). Service on the 32 operated between Robbinsdale and Rosedale, every 30 min peak, 30-60 min midday. In 2012, there was another service change due to Minneapolis Public Schools removing school bus service for high school students. Route 32 gained some new school-routing branches and was improved to a 30 min headway during rush hours and extended slightly in the evenings.

The 3 was the former service on Broadway and Golden Valley Road. IIRC, it operated from Golden Valley to NE Industrial Park. I believe it was eliminated in 1993 or 1994. The new Route 30 service has been talked about for awhile, but it's good to see it starting. This iteration of the Broadway crosstown has a new extension to Raymond and University for connections to the Green Line (opening June 14th, 2014), and it's western terminus is near a potential Blue Line station.

Metro Transit has really been changing their philosophy on the operation of the bus system. Simpler routes with better service. Huge changes will be coming in Saint Paul with the opening of the Green Line. A lot of buses will be operating every 20 minutes now, and a new crosstown (Route 83) along Lexington from Har Mar Mall to W 7th St/Montreal Ave.

[PwcrLinux]

The 11 was the old Lowry Crosstown, and the 7 was the Washington-Lowry bus. In 1997, the 32 replaced both of those routes and was extended to Rosedale Transit Center. The service to Downtown via Washington was cut back to rush-hour service only. In 2007 the service was slightly restructured to simplify service. The 32Y branch became the 19Y. The Washington Av N service was reinstated on Route 7 during rush hours (it has since been eliminated). Service on the 32 operated between Robbinsdale and Rosedale, every 30 min peak, 30-60 min midday. In 2012, there was another service change due to Minneapolis Public Schools removing school bus service for high school students. Route 32 gained some new school-routing branches and was improved to a 30 min headway during rush hours and extended slightly in the evenings.

The 3 was the former service on Broadway and Golden Valley Road. IIRC, it operated from Golden Valley to NE Industrial Park. I believe it was eliminated in 1993 or 1994. The new Route 30 service has been talked about for awhile, but it's good to see it starting. This iteration of the Broadway crosstown has a new extension to Raymond and University for connections to the Green Line (opening June 14th, 2014), and it's western terminus is near a potential Blue Line station.

Metro Transit has really been changing their philosophy on the operation of the bus system. Simpler routes with better service. Huge changes will be coming in Saint Paul with the opening of the Green Line. A lot of buses will be operating every 20 minutes now, and a new crosstown (Route 83) along Lexington from Har Mar Mall to W 7th St/Montreal Ave.

Yep, Future of Blue line Station would be "Golden Valley Road Station" that where buses goes by 14 and extended 30.

83 would be a small buses either First Transit or Transit Team run the line 83 service...

[MVTArider]

Yep, Future of Blue line Station would be "Golden Valley Road Station" that where buses goes by 14 and extended 30.

83 would be a small buses either First Transit or Transit Team run the line 83 service...

First got the contract on 83 I believe. One of the reasons stated for a small bus on that route was low bridge clearance. That has me wondering what will happen if the route becomes a raging success and requires larger buses at some point. Reroute, or more frequent service?

---

Aside from route changes, not much to report. MT is trying out 1x2 seating for a couple rows on some of the Gilligs: http://www.metrotransit.org/take-a-seat I hope this is successful and that they don't go with perimeter seating instead.

I'm not sure what is going on with the LRT lately, but I have found it to be quite unreliable sometimes. Late night trips are especially bad, with trains arriving anywhere from 5 - 15 minutes late. Hopefully once operator training and the cold weather cease it will get back to the normal level of "on time" (1-5 minutes down). Schedule changes in April might help as well.

[PwcrLinux]

First got the contract on 83 I believe. One of the reasons stated for a small bus on that route was low bridge clearance. That has me wondering what will happen if the route becomes a raging success and requires larger buses at some point. Reroute, or more frequent service?

---

Aside from route changes, not much to report. MT is trying out 1x2 seating for a couple rows on some of the Gilligs: http://www.metrotransit.org/take-a-seat I hope this is successful and that they don't go with perimeter seating instead.

I'm not sure what is going on with the LRT lately, but I have found it to be quite unreliable sometimes. Late night trips are especially bad, with trains arriving anywhere from 5 - 15 minutes late. Hopefully once operator training and the cold weather cease it will get back to the normal level of "on time" (1-5 minutes down). Schedule changes in April might help as well.

Right due to the height of vehicles for bridge clearance, the small buses act like a school vans rather than the "Paratransit buses" that why weight limits on the under bridge down the steep and up the steep, Paratransit buses can't go under the bridge because of new fleet ordered they're 10 ft and 6 inches height, the school van style would be 7 feet in height can fit the bridge clearance.

[Tcmetro]

I went for a ride on the 30 yesterday since it was the first day of service. I boarded a PM rush hour trip at University and Raymond. One other rider boarded there as well and took the bus to the Quarry. Another rider boarded at Como/Eustis and disembarked at UPS. Another rider boarded at Johnson/Broadway and transferred to the 10 at Broadway/Central. We passed a Route 30 going in the other direction in the Northeast Industrial Park, but that one was empty. Another one going east passed at Central/Broadway with 2 riders. I hope that the route does become successful and it can become a permanent fixture in the system. I think it's best ridership is going to be riders who transfer to the Green Line.

I also saw #7291 (one of two MT Xcelsiors) on the 10. Other spottings of note were #1558 (with the 2x1 seating) on the 2, #60039 (MTS Gillig BRT) on the 80, and #6692, a cutaway vehicle on the 219.

[Tcmetro]

This surprised me last night: Year 2000 MCI on Route 270. This is an ex-SW Transit unit. Sorry for the photo quality, it was a quick cell phone pic.

[MVTArider]

I wonder if they reupholstered all the seats? IIRC SWT has the logo on each one.

I rode 1600 while headed to work the other day. Back to the 90s with the flat front and square headlights. They kept the yellow paint curves around the headlights, so almost the whole front looks yellow. Interior is similar to the 1500 series, except some of the floor to ceiling stanchions have a more fashionable curve to them. 1600 has 2x2 seating in the lower section so the 1x2 trial must be on some 1500 series units. Also I think it had the ZF 6 speed transmission as found in the 1500 series. It's amazing how quiet the newest Gilligs are for powertrain noise. I think the 2008 hybrids are even louder.

[MVTArider]

Updates:

1600-1674 have been in service a bit over a year now. They seem to be holding up well.

Welcome aboard to the new 17xx series, these are standard diesel Gillig Low Floor 40' units. I haven't ridden one yet, but I've spotted up to 1707 so far. These feature solid non-opening windows, a first for Metro Transit. (aside from their MCI coaches of course). I'mg guessing with the EMP cooling system being ordered on their recent purchases, they figure the HVAC can keep up now so no more need for windows that open.

The time has come to say goodbye to the Phantoms and most of the D60 New Flyers as the era of standard floor buses draws closer to an end for the Twin Cities. They will be missed  The Phantoms will likely still be around in force throughout the summer. I'm not sure how big the 17xx order is yet, but I assume most of the 22 2004 Phantoms will stick around into next year. The replacements for the 2003 D60, 3100-3149, will be NFI XD60. I don't know if those have gotten to production or not yet. Also on order are five more hybrid units, at least according to a blurb in a recent news article. I'm not sure who the manufacturer is for them, but I assume it's Gillig. Also on order are 12 Gillig buses with BRT features for the A Line.

MTS division added 2014 Gillig Low Floor 29' 60070-60083 into service last fall. I thought these replaced the older 2002 Gillig Low Floors 6013-6025, however I have recently seen quite a few still out during the rush hours on various routes. More shorty Gilligs are on order, okay two orders, which will likely be the replacements for that group.

 

Over the past month Metro Transit has hosted an electric bus demonstration test on various routes in the Metro Transit system. Manufacturers who participated were NFI with a 2013 XE40, Proterra Inc. with a 2014 Catalyst 40', and BYD Company Ltd. with a 2014 40-FT Electric Transit Bus.

As one might guess I was able to find my way onto each demo. The XE40 was the quietest IMO. Overall though I thought the Proterra seemed like the best in terms of design and build quality, at least from a rider viewpoint.

Overall ridership on Metro Transit in 2014 was the highest since 1981. Also I don't have a specific link at the moment, but the METRO Green Line LRT on University Avenue is blowing past ridership projections and is a success.

 

Finally a few random, somewhat recent, photos:

Edited May 21, 2015 by MVTArider

[artthouwill]

I haven't been to the Twin Cities in years, so trying to keep my memory straight is getting to be a challenge.   I think Metro had 7 garages.  The three I remember are

1. The one near I 494 near 34th Ave, in the southwest corner of MSP.

2. Nicollet garage on Nicollet near Lake St.

3.  Seventh Avenue garage which was by Metro HQ just Northwest of downtown Minneapolis. 

I believe St Paul had 2 garages.  When I was last there. Metro had contracted out some of its service.  Lorenz, based in Blaine,  was one of them.  At the time, the Hiawatha Line, now the Blue Line, was built but hadn't been opened yet.  The Green Line and the North Star Line were proposed. Also, I think Metro ran some contract service for MVTA. 

What were the 4  other garages?  I'm thinking one was possibly in Nortg Minneapolis or NE Minneapolis.   With the introduction of the Green Line,  express bus service between the downtown's should've been eliminated.   Did Metro also stop contracting out service?