New Buses and Old Attitudes

[New Flyer]

I read the articles published here everyday, and sometimes I am just appalled at the level of bigotry and stupidity I come across from time to time. It seems we have some supposedly intellligent people that believe that dirty buses are only in minority communities.

We have some supposedly intelligent people that believe that new buses should never be put in minority communities because new buses will become involved in accidents. If this is the kind of newsletter thats being put out maybe I should see about having it shut down. As an African American retired CTA Bus Operator with 26 years of service trust me dirty buses and new buses in accidents happen in all communities.

Where do some of you get off saying other wise. The only thing you're doing besides showing your stupidity and ignorance is showing how lowbrow this newsletter can be. As far as accidents I wish I could have been with some of your parents before they mated so they could see what kind of accidents they were bringing into the community.

Maybe I should e-mail some of these stories to the press to show them what type of mentality exits among folks at the CTA I think they-ed get a kick out of it don't you along with Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton. A disgusted New Flyer.

[trainman8119]

Although I disagree, and quite frankly resent the fact that you feel that this forum is for bigots and racists, etc, I will agree with you that there are many who are quite misinformed when it comes to placing new equipment in areas of the city and placing blame as to where and how it becomes dirty and/or damaged. I would not consider those you claim to be supposedly intelligent being intellegent, in fact quite the opposite. Being out in the public daily, I can say that the slobs come from all areas, all colors, all etnicitites and on and on and on. Some of the crummiest buses in Chicago right now are on the north side and not on the south as it is often implied. I contend that the buses out of 103 and 77th street are in much better condition than those at North Park and Kedzie (which got most of its fleet prior to New Flyers from Forest Glen). I question the maintenance at the north side garages along with wondering if the stuff at North Park gets beat up more because it gets used more. Haven't quite figured that one out yet.

Yes there are those who have made some questionable comments here, and they have been dressed down by a number of other posters. I say consider the source(s) and leave it at that. Quite frankly, I am tired of the constant threats that someone is going to call Jesse Jackson or whomever. Honestly, I don't thing the Jesser could do much more with public transit than Frank Kruse or Ron Huberman or whomever, simply because he is a politician and right now I feel the politicians are the real problem...simply because they don't know transit and how it should be run. You can make all the threats you want, but that, unfortunatley, will not change how anyone thinks and those opinions you despise will only turn up elsewhere.

[rmadisonwi]

I'll also point out that this is a public internet message board, not a newsletter. The stuff that's posted here can't really be considered "articles," and that most of the people on this forum do not work for CTA. Those that do work for CTA, the comments they make are their own opinions and do not represent official company opinion or company policy.

The front page of the chicagobus.org website clearly states that the website is not affiliated with the Chicago Transit Authority.

[Busjack]

I will admit that there are three posters here who advocated what you said they did; none is affiliated with CTA. While I am not either, I have consistently said that CTA violated its service standards by sending the first New Flyers to Archer, giving it a wholly new fleet, while ignoring 103rd and 74th. 103rd is now getting attention, 450 buses later. You can make your own inferences.

[Buslover88]

I read the articles published here everyday, and sometimes I am just appalled at the level of bigotry and stupidity I come across from time to time. It seems we have some supposedly intellligent people that believe that dirty buses are only in minority communities.

We have some supposedly intelligent people that believe that new buses should never be put in minority communities because new buses will become involved in accidents. If this is the kind of newsletter thats being put out maybe I should see about having it shut down. As an African American retired CTA Bus Operator with 26 years of service trust me dirty buses and new buses in accidents happen in all communities.

Where do some of you get off saying other wise. The only thing you're doing besides showing your stupidity and ignorance is showing how lowbrow this newsletter can be. As far as accidents I wish I could have been with some of your parents before they mated so they could see what kind of accidents they were bringing into the community.

Maybe I should e-mail some of these stories to the press to show them what type of mentality exits among folks at the CTA I think they-ed get a kick out of it don't you along with Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton. A disgusted New Flyer.

Okay, first of all, this is not a newsletter. Second, why did you register if you think we're stupid and ignorance? Most of us are intelligent and you don't even know me or any of us on here. That thing about parents is totally unacceptable to me and probably most of us on here and only a few of us here work the CTA, almost all of us are fans of buses. I don't think our administor will like what you just wrote, it's a violation of the board I think. Mostly everything written on this board are opinions and we have our right. Trainman, I agree with you 100% on ALL of what you've said.

P.S. Kevin, i'm sorry if this gets off topic, but I just had to reply to this. Again, sorry.

[Kevin]

As others have pointed out, the messages posted on this public forum express the views of the author and not those of ChicagoBus.org. This Web site is not affiliated with any transit agency or provider.

[New Flyer]

Okay, first of all, this is not a newsletter. Second, why did you register if you think we're stupid and ignorance? Most of us are intelligent and you don't even know me or any of us on here. That thing about parents is totally unacceptable to me and probably most of us on here and only a few of us here work the CTA, almost all of us are fans of buses. I don't think our administor will like what you just wrote, it's a violation of the board I think. Mostly everything written on this board are opinions and we have our right. Trainman, I agree with you 100% on ALL of what you've said.

P.S. Kevin, i'm sorry if this gets off topic, but I just had to reply to this. Again, sorry.

First of all I never said all of you and the word is ignorant not ignorance which proves my point, no one has the right to classify a group of people or community that does make you ignorant some folks on here do put out some intresting information.

If you want to talk about buses fine but why classify certain groups of people or the types of people living in those communities. New Flyer

[New Flyer]

I will admit that there are three posters here who advocated what you said they did; none is affiliated with CTA. While I am not either, I have consistently said that CTA violated its service standards by sending the first New Flyers to Archer, giving it a wholly new fleet, while ignoring 103rd and 74th. 103rd is now getting attention, 450 buses later. You can make your own inferences.

Some of what you say is quite true but some of the blame has to go to the communities that sit back and allow these things to happen. Archer, North Park and Forest Glen have always been pet garages although I can't understand why North Park has turned into the garage it is.

Until the politics is taken out of CTA and the community fight s for better service such as finally extending the red line to 130th instead of concentrating on the circle line nothing will change.

New Flyer

[Buslover88]

First of all I never said all of you and the word is ignorant not ignorance which proves my point, no one has the right to classify a group of people or community that does make you ignorant some folks on here do put out some intresting information.

If you want to talk about buses fine but why classify certain groups of people or the types of people living in those communities. New Flyer

I have a right to put "Ingorance" if I want, and what point is proved? That i'm ingorant? For your information, i'm not ingorant and I happen to go to an African-American church which proves that i'm not a racist. The last time I checked everybody had a freedom of speech, that means anybody has the right to say anything they want.

P.S. Kevin, if this post seems mean or whatever to you, you have the right to delete my post and you should close this topic as it contributes nothing to the board.

[nextstopchicago]

As someone who moved into my neighborhood partly because it does have a diverse group of people both racially and economically, which was something I value, it would nonetheless be hard for me to deny that my new neighbors litter A LOT more than people anywhere else I've ever lived. Adults drop litter when they're five feet from garbage cans. It's incredible to me. I pick up more litter every week in my front yard than I picked up in any given year in previous places I've lived.

I don't think that's at all an excuse for giving some neighborhoods older or crappier buses, but to simply say people everywhere get the buses dirty is to deny a genuine difference that does have an impact on the transit system. I'd guess that middle income black and Hispanic neighborhoods don't litter much. This is primarily a class issue, but it is an issue.

The idea that accidents happen more frequently in one part or another of town seems pretty dubious to me. At the very least it's not something I think any of us could verify from experience, because accidents happen so infrequently that any one person's knowledge, except maybe a tow truck driver or a cop, would have to be anecdotal. It would require an actuary to figure it out. Again, a very poor excuse for giving a neighborhood old, crappy buses.

[BusExpert32]

As someone who moved into my neighborhood partly because it does have a diverse group of people both racially and economically, which was something I value, it would nonetheless be hard for me to deny that my new neighbors litter A LOT more than people anywhere else I've ever lived. Adults drop litter when they're five feet from garbage cans. It's incredible to me. I pick up more litter every week in my front yard than I picked up in any given year in previous places I've lived.

I don't think that's at all an excuse for giving some neighborhoods older or crappier buses, but to simply say people everywhere get the buses dirty is to deny a genuine difference that does have an impact on the transit system. I'd guess that middle income black and Hispanic neighborhoods don't litter much. This is primarily a class issue, but it is an issue.

The idea that accidents happen more frequently in one part or another of town seems pretty dubious to me. At the very least it's not something I think any of us could verify from experience, because accidents happen so infrequently that any one person's knowledge, except maybe a tow truck driver or a cop, would have to be anecdotal. It would require an actuary to figure it out. Again, a very poor excuse for giving a neighborhood old, crappy buses.

Here we go again with this topic. The CTA assigns its buses randomly from day to day. Rarely do you ever see the same bus operating on the same route, at the same time on every day; therefore, you will never see the same bus just being assigned to the same route non-stop. The CTA's bus assignments are random, can we just leave it at that.

[Busjack]

Here we go again with this topic. The CTA assigns its buses randomly from day to day. Rarely do you ever see the same bus operating on the same route, at the same time on every day; therefore, you will never see the same bus just being assigned to the same route non-stop. The CTA's bus assignments are random, can we just leave it at that.

Except, of course, that the assignments to garages are not.

[BusExpert32]

Except, of course, that the assignments to garages are not.

I was talking about the random bus assignments from day to day on each route from different garages. Of course, the bus assignments for each garage are the same.

[Buslover88]

Here we go again with this topic. The CTA assigns its buses randomly from day to day. Rarely do you ever see the same bus operating on the same route, at the same time on every day; therefore, you will never see the same bus just being assigned to the same route non-stop. The CTA's bus assignments are random, can we just leave it at that.

BusExpert32, it's very true what nextstopchicago said and I agree with him 100%. Anyway, most buses are not assigned "ramdomly". I've seen buses on the same route for up to 6 hours. If you don't like the topic, then why did you make a post?

[rmadisonwi]

I've seen buses on the same route for up to 6 hours.

Well, theoretically, a bus could be on the same route for up to 22 hours (I think that's the longest block scheduled; there are a handful that exceed 20 hours).

That's not what he was talking about, though. The post was referring to buses being assigned to a particular pullout on a particular day (and the original message was regarding buses assigned to a garage, not being assigned to a pullout/block). That's why he said "every day" and not "every hour."

[BusExpert32]

BusExpert32, it's very true what nextstopchicago said and I agree with him 100%. Anyway, most buses are not assigned "ramdomly". I've seen buses on the same route for up to 6 hours. If you don't like the topic, then why did you make a post?

No Buslover, you're wrong here. I know that nextstopchicago was putting some thought into his post and I bet he's really happy for your support of him as being a new member. I just thought that starting this topic again wouldn't be such a good idea. I mean, this topic was just a disgrace to the board. It insulted members and their opinions. But if we're getting to the facts, you are not correct. At least rmadisonwi was understanding me. Buses do indeed get assigned randomly from "day to day". I never said for every hour like rmadisonwi pointed out to you. And yes, I was reffering to a pullout/block which is literaly very close to a day and not every bus is assigned to the same pullout/block each day; therefore, explaining that the CTA's bus assignments from day to day are in fact random.

[Buslover88]

No Buslover, you're wrong here.

How can I be wrong over expressing opinion? People these days .

if we're getting to the facts, you are not correct. At least rmadisonwi was understanding me. Buses do indeed get assigned randomly from "day to day". I never said for every hour like rmadisonwi pointed out to you. And yes, I was reffering to a pullout/block which is literaly very close to a day and not every bus is assigned to the same pullout/block each day; therefore, explaining that the CTA's bus assignments from day to day are in fact random.

I don't care what you or rmadisonwi say. Buses are put on the same routes ALMOST everyday. I've seen it for myself and no, the assignments aren't really ramdom.

A side note for everyone except Kevin: If you don't like my opinions, oh well then, what makes you think i'm going to stop expressing my opinions (unless if Kevin removes a post)? I think I have my rights, like you all do. Did I ever say you couldn't express opinion? No. Get off my case.

[Kevin]

I don't care what you or rmadisonwi say. Buses are put on the same routes ALMOST everyday. I've seen it for myself and no, the assignments aren't really ramdom.

I will agree that you're right in some special circumstances. For example, I don't believe I've ever seen Archer's hybrid buses operate on a route other than the #62 Archer. Also, back when Archer's fleet consisted of only Novas and Flxibles, you would rarely ever see a Flexible operating on the #62 other than during rush hour periods. You were essentially guaranteed a Nova on the weekends or during off-peak times. I never observed such similar assignment preference on Archer's other routes.

[BusExpert32]

How can I be wrong over expressing opinion? People these days .

I don't care what you or rmadisonwi say. Buses are put on the same routes ALMOST everyday. I've seen it for myself and no, the assignments aren't really ramdom.

A side note for everyone except Kevin: If you don't like my opinions, oh well then, what makes you think i'm going to stop expressing my opinions (unless if Kevin removes a post)? I think I have my rights, like you all do. Did I ever say you couldn't express opinion? No. Get off my case.

Yes, you can be wrong by your opinions, which I and rmadisonwi proved to be incorrect. And yes, we all can state our opinions on this board, but when I believe that someone's opinion is incorrect and I have information and support to correct it, I would. Wouldn't you? And let's please stop discussing old topics about everyone's opinions and their right to express them. It's been discussed in probably a couple of other threads already. To get to the facts of this topic: the 800s and 900s are in a very little quantity; therefore, seeing them being assigned to the same route would be more obvious because there is more control over such a little amount of buses. I for one, have seen the same bus, let's say #6843 for example, on different Forest Glen routes during different days of the week. Once it was on the #92 Foster on a Saturday, then on the #90 Harlem on a weekday, and then on the #56 Milwaukee on a Sunday. So buses don't get assigned to the same route or pullout/block every day of the week, which was my point. And about #62 Archer, I did notice nothing but Novas during off-peak hours. It was a very peculiar thing.

[Buslover88]

Yes, you can be wrong by your opinions, which I and rmadisonwi proved to be incorrect. And yes, we all can state our opinions on this board, but when I believe that someone's opinion is incorrect and I have information and support to correct it, I would. Wouldn't you? And let's please stop discussing old topics about everyone's opinions and their right to express them. It's been discussed in probably a couple of other threads already.

No, you can't be wrong by opinions because they aren't facts. They're just a way for you to express yourself, but of course, nobody wants me to, so i'll just keep to myself. It's not an old topic either because people are denied basic rights everyday. Sorry for my rant, everyone (except BusExpert32 ).

I for one, have seen the same bus, let's say #6843 for example, on different Forest Glen routes during different days of the week. Once it was on the #92 Foster on a Saturday, then on the #90 Harlem on a weekday, and then on the #56 Milwaukee on a Sunday. So buses don't get assigned to the same route or pullout/block every day of the week, which was my point.

Anyway, buses are on the same route almost everyday. Once or twice a week, they'll be put on another route, but then they go back to that one route (I think. My opinion only here). You are a little bit right, but I think (my opinion only) you're wrong about how buses are assigned ramdomly everyday.

[trainman8119]

Anyway, buses are on the same route almost everyday. Once or twice a week, they'll be put on another route, but then they go back to that one route (I think. My opinion only here). You are a little bit right, but I think (my opinion only) you're wrong about how buses are assigned ramdomly everyday.

Buses will get assigned randomly, but there are exceptions. First, certain buses have equipment that allows for counting of passengers, or bus tracker, or some other specific need. These buses will be put on routes that require specific needs for that time of day or route. Occasionally, drivers will have the option of picking a bus, depending on time of day and availabiltiy. As for a bus often showing up on a route at a specific time and day, you have to realize that these buses go into and out of the garage on a cycle. A bus that gets into the garage early in the day is likely to be back out later in the day. Should it get in later, it will go out later and on and on. So if a certain bus hits the garage at the right time, the cycle will end up putting the bus out on the same route at around the same time...maybe even the same run, simply because that is what is available. Probably more coincidence than actual planning.

[Buslover88]

Buses will get assigned randomly, but there are exceptions. First, certain buses have equipment that allows for counting of passengers, or bus tracker, or some other specific need. These buses will be put on routes that require specific needs for that time of day or route. Occasionally, drivers will have the option of picking a bus, depending on time of day and availabiltiy. As for a bus often showing up on a route at a specific time and day, you have to realize that these buses go into and out of the garage on a cycle. A bus that gets into the garage early in the day is likely to be back out later in the day. Should it get in later, it will go out later and on and on. So if a certain bus hits the garage at the right time, the cycle will end up putting the bus out on the same route at around the same time...maybe even the same run, simply because that is what is available. Probably more coincidence than actual planning.

I agree with you, Trainman, but it just seems like to me that certain buses are always on certain routes.

[rmadisonwi]

Buses are assigned based on what's available when that run needs to pull out.

Most garages (not just in Chicago, but elsewhere as well) park their buses bumper-to-bumper, as that's the way to get the most vehicles in the smallest space. When it's time for run "x" to pull out at 5:30 am, that run is going to get whatever the next bus is on whatever track they're using. The maintenance guy assigning the buses couldn't give half a rat's rear end whether bus 2345 winds up on route 1 or route 2. If that's next in line, then that's the next bus that will go.

Sometimes, there are other considerations as well. A pull-out that is designated for a 60-foot bus is *supposed* to get a NABI (if a working one is available), some are designated for Optimas. Back when route #20 was the pilot route for bus tracker, then those specially equipped buses had to be on that route. Some garages prefer to keep a particular type of bus on a particular route.

When it comes to the last few pull-outs of a given rush hour, then you're more likely to find anything that will move, because by that point, the garage is pretty much out of (usable) buses.

At CTA, each pull-out is designated with a particular vehicle size (which the garage is supposed to follow, but they don't always do so, depending on what's available at the time). It is then up to the garage to find a vehicle that will be placed on that run. In that sense, a particular run on the #146, for example, will almost always have a NABI, but it may be 7580 or it may be 7712. It depends on what the next bus in line was when the run pulled out.

Since buses don't pull in in the same order that they pull out, the buses will get mixed up every every day, unless the garage somehow tries to sort things out or put a particular bus off to the side. Keeping one bus on the same block every day isn't that big of a deal (just put that one bus off to the side somewhere). Keeping every bus on the same blocks every day is, because it would essentially be like solving a Rubik's cube every night to get everything back in the same order as it was the previous day.

So, it may seem like you "always" see a certain bus on a certain route, but, depending on the situation, odds are it's more of a coincidence than any intentional effort.

[BusExpert32]

Everyone here is right. If it is a coincidence, then it is a random bus assignment. Buses do get assigned randomly every day, and especially during rush hour when very few extra buses are available. But I'm not really sure if Buslover agrees with us yet. He seems to believe you guys, but he says that I'm wrong when I've made the same points.

[Buslover88]

Most garages (not just in Chicago, but elsewhere as well) park their buses bumper-to-bumper, as that's the way to get the most vehicles in the smallest space. When it's time for run "x" to pull out at 5:30 am, that run is going to get whatever the next bus is on whatever track they're using. The maintenance guy assigning the buses couldn't give half a rat's rear end whether bus 2345 winds up on route 1 or route 2. If that's next in line, then that's the next bus that will go.

Sometimes, there are other considerations as well. A pull-out that is designated for a 60-foot bus is *supposed* to get a NABI (if a working one is available), some are designated for Optimas. Back when route #20 was the pilot route for bus tracker, then those specially equipped buses had to be on that route. Some garages prefer to keep a particular type of bus on a particular route.

When it comes to the last few pull-outs of a given rush hour, then you're more likely to find anything that will move, because by that point, the garage is pretty much out of (usable) buses.

At CTA, each pull-out is designated with a particular vehicle size (which the garage is supposed to follow, but they don't always do so, depending on what's available at the time). It is then up to the garage to find a vehicle that will be placed on that run. In that sense, a particular run on the #146, for example, will almost always have a NABI, but it may be 7580 or it may be 7712. It depends on what the next bus in line was when the run pulled out.

Since buses don't pull in in the same order that they pull out, the buses will get mixed up every every day, unless the garage somehow tries to sort things out or put a particular bus off to the side. Keeping one bus on the same block every day isn't that big of a deal (just put that one bus off to the side somewhere). Keeping every bus on the same blocks every day is, because it would essentially be like solving a Rubik's cube every night to get everything back in the same order as it was the previous day.

So, it may seem like you "always" see a certain bus on a certain route, but, depending on the situation, odds are it's more of a coincidence than any intentional effort.

I understand what you're saying now, rmad. So it's not intentional. I had thought it was. My apologizes to everyone...

If it is a coincidence, then it is a random bus assignment. Buses do get assigned randomly every day, and especially during rush hour when very few extra buses are available. But I'm not really sure if Buslover agrees with us yet. He seems to believe you guys, but he says that I'm wrong when I've made the same points.

...Well, almost everyone. Anyway, "ramdom" is a poor word choice on your behalf now. I would call it "a coincidence".