Bustracker's buses

[nextstopchicago]

I think Trainman was reffering to the fact the linear view of Bustracker takes a few minutes to "download".

No, it takes about 3 seconds. Nice guess, though.

Division is 4 blocks south of North, not "an extra block".

Perhaps you guys all live right on corners where bus routes intersect. That's the only reason I can come up with that you can fail to see the answer to this simple riddle:

If you live a block and a half south of North Ave, then Division is in fact just an extra block.

How is driving you're car and taking the CTA simliar? That's not related at all. I'll agree that the #72 North does get pretty packed.

Driving my car is similar because it's the alternative to taking the bus. Often, I'd prefer the bus - because of parking costs and other reasons.

[nextstopchicago]

My reference was to the above statement. I wonder how many times your bus will go by while you are looking at the computer instead of being at the bus stop. Should you choose to use the bus that particular day, and later on the bus is late or whatever, you will be commited to using the bus and won't have the option of going back home to get your car and choose not to use it. That is where I stated you would be complaining the loudest.

I will stand by my gimmick claim. I don't doubt it will be the standard in 5 years, after all a ton of money is being invested. However, the average joe won't be sitting in front of his or her computer tracking their next ride, and my guess is that any bus stop notations will be about as noticed as the constant dinging of "doors closing" on the L or "ding..Grand" on the bus (of course which are ADA requirements).

One last comment, albeit a little bit far fetched, but worth throwing out there. In a time where we are inundated with claims of mass security in light of 9/11, I find it somewhat humorus that there is something being put out there where the average joe can track targets. When CTA, Pace and Metra claim security is at issue for everyting from arresting people for taking pictures to announcements that security is a top priority, maybe one should scratch their head wondering about the sincerity of such statements, yet not guard equipment in yards and allow tracking of vehicles on line.

Perhaps you should read about the tracker before criticizing it. I know, I know, it's so tough to be expected to understand something in order to comment on it, but many of us consider it a reasonable standard.

1) Nobody is going to "track" their bus. They're going to look at it and see if it's close. If not, they'll set up the alert function to let them know when it crosses a certain corner.

2) It's simply nonsense to say "later on the bus is late". People who use it will set the alert for a corner that is a mile and a half away or so -- or whatever is enough time to get them to the stop from where they live. A bus could get a minute or two later in that amount of time -- but nobody is particularly annoyed about buses that are a minute or two late. It's the ones that come 25 minutes late that mean you can't rely on CTA. You'll know about those.

3) Tracker takes a moment to load.

4) Tracker has a feature for web-enabled cell phone browsers. These things are not the province of the white, suburban or rich, despite what you may think. They are more common among younger people, and clearly young people will be more common users of the tracker, particularly in the early days.

5) I didn't say that in 5 years, the system would be installed. Tracker will be available to the public for every route and every bus by the end of '08. In 5 years, it will a habit for most CTA riders, not for the agency.

6) You're welcome to use it as a gimmick, despite the fact that you don't intend to use it to help yourself, and in fact have been very creative in thinking of ways that it won't be helpful for you. I'm sure once you start using it, you'll come up with even more ways in which you can snear at everyone who does use it to saving themselves time. After all, if they had a leisurely lifestyle like yourself, with noplace to be, they wouldn't need to save time.

[nextstopchicago]

Oh, and I'm sure that terrorists who are unable to find a bus to attack in this city will be VERY thankful for the tracker.

Of course, I'm not very worried about anyone who needs the tracker to find a bus when any bus will do.

[trainman8119]

...I'm sure once you start using it...

Don't hold your breath.

[jajuan]

If you live a block and a half south of North Ave, then Division is in fact just an extra block.

I'd like to know what city you live in if you think that is true. If you live a block and a half south of North Avenue, it's an extra TWO AND A HALF blocks to Division not not one extra block. By your math there are only two and a half blocks between North Avenue and Division instead of the four blocks that everyone else knows it is.

[Buslover88]

No, it takes about 3 seconds.

Maybe for you it takes 3 seconds...

Perhaps you guys all live right on corners where bus routes intersect.

I live just north of Diversey, near Central Park, so there's only #76 Diversey in this immeadiate area.

Driving my car is similar because it's the alternative to taking the bus. Often, I'd prefer the bus - because of parking costs and other reasons.

Again, i'll say driving you're car and taking the bus are not the same.

Nobody is going to "track" their bus. They're going to look at it and see if it's close. If not, they'll set up the alert function to let them know when it crosses a certain corner.

People are tracking the bus because if it's moving and if they are moving the map, then that's tracking it.

You're welcome to use it as a gimmick

Trainman might have a specific reason as to calling it a gimmick.

After all, if they had a leisurely lifestyle like yourself, with no [insert space here] place to be, they wouldn't need to save time.

As pointed out before, Trainman has a job. He works for METRA.

If you live a block and a half south of North Ave, then Division is in fact just an extra block.

I'd like to know what city you live in if you think that is true. If you live a block and a half south of North Avenue, it's an extra TWO AND A HALF blocks to Division not not one extra block. By your math there are only two and a half blocks between North Avenue and Division instead of the four blocks that everyone else knows it is.

I agree 100% here. North is in fact 4 blocks north of Division, not an "extra block". Also, I think this topic is starting to get off topic here.

[busfan4022]

Since you admit that you don't ride the bus, why do you make assumptions about people who do? And how is your full fare transit card reselling operation going?

Busjack, it seems as though you can't read blatant sarcasm when its clearly being typed.~

If you read the end of my post before that, you can see that I ride the bus to school. As for that personal attack, sorry but I have better things to do than stand on 95th street trying to make a quick buck. Since you know more than me on that subject, I suppose it's your operation? o_o

My point here, is that although this appears to be something that is beneficial, it is for only a select few and I question the money put out for these things. They are nothing but gimmicks, and in the end, only show the inefficiencies of the system.

Like music to my ears.

So you're calling me a geek? So what if I (and i'm sure there's others) like to watch bus numbers?

It's not a toy, in case you didn't notice that.

Why does everything good that CTA buys look like a toy to you?

There is a line between staring at slow moving numbers on a google map for 5 hours+. You, Buslover, are a prime example of why he said it is just a toy.

When else did he say something was a toy?

No, if you really want to know, you look at the bus tracker. If you really don't want to know, as for people like busfan, you read the schedule.

I don't even read the schedule....

The bus comes when it comes. If it takes forever and your late, that's YOUR fault. Always plan the bus before that one, or use another mode of transportation (I.E. taxi). I take the bus a hour before I even need to be on, because I know in the mornings the bus is usually going to come late and so full of people they won't let anyone on. So if someone is late they usually use "delays" as a sorry excuse.

I don't care when the bus comes. If it doesn't come when I need it, I'm walking.

What kind of idiot would say the bustracker isn't perfect, it'll be wrong 1 time in 10,000 (because a bus could break down in the 8 blocks between where you see it and your stop).

Play nice.

That's your statistics, which aren't perfect themselves. Don't call anyone an idiot who is sticking up for there opinion. Question your own idiocy before questioning someone else's, because it sounds like you are calling me and/or trainman complete idiots. ]:

EDIT: And I will appreciate no more attacks, if you fill a certain way about me, my pm box is always open.

[BusExpert32]

From what I've read, I would have to say that Bustracker will mostly help the CTA untangle its bus bunching dilema that's been in debate for years. From these past arguements, do you people realize that only a slight amount (I've got no percentages) of CTA customers will actually use Bustracker to help them with their commute. The regular CTA customer won't have time, won't feel like it, or won't have any idea about checking bus times on Bustracker. It'll just be the same old way of riding the CTA. Once again, Bustracker will mostly (if not only) benefit the CTA: such as, less (if any at all) bus supervisors out there in the cold weather or heat, less (if any at all) bus bunching, and just a way to see that the service is out there where it's suppose to be.

[rmadisonwi]

I can't believe how this "extra block" thing is being so obviously misunderstood.

The distance from North Avenue to Divison: 4 blocks.

If you live 1.5 blocks from North Avenue, then you live 2.5 blocks from Division.

The difference between walking 1.5 blocks and walking 2.5 blocks? 1 extra block.

Why in the hell was that so hard? First grade math here, people.

[Buslover88]

Busjack, it seems as though you can't read blatant sarcasm when its clearly being typed.~

Maybe he don't care?

Since you know more than me on that subject, I suppose it's your operation? o_o

It was said on this forum before that Busjack had a job, but I didn't read where it said he stood on 95th all day.

There is a line between staring at slow moving numbers on a google map for 5 hours+. You, Buslover, are a prime example of why he said it is just a toy.

So what if I (and again, there's a few others) like to watch bus numbers? About the "prime example" thing, just what the hell is that supposed to mean? I can't tell if that's an insult, but if you have something to say about me, why don't you PM me?

I don't even read the schedule....

You should. There's a few reason as to why you should, too, altough i'm not wasting my time listing them.

The bus comes when it comes.

Well, the bus should come when it's supposed to.

If it takes forever and your late, that's YOUR fault.

How in the hell is it someone's fault if the bus comes late? That's nobody's fault and you know it.

Always plan the bus before that one, or use another mode of transportation (I.E. taxi).

Just because YOU have money for a taxi doesn't mean anything. There are some of us who only have money for public transit. Another reason why I don't like taxis is because I get sick in them all the time, but then again, why am I telling you that?

I take the bus a hour before I even need to be on, because I know in the mornings the bus is usually going to come late and so full of people they won't let anyone on.

Now why do you do that? I think that is just stupid to ride the bus an hour early.

So if someone is late they usually use "delays" as a sorry excuse.

How is that the person's fault? If there's bus bunching, traffic, etc. then it's not the costumer's fault.

Busfan4022: Could you please do me a favor and stay on topic, please? I don't want anymore closed topics. I know this rant is off topic, but I just like to see us all on topic.

[Buslover88]

From what I've read, I would have to say that Bustracker will mostly help the CTA untangle its bus bunching dilema that's been in debate for years.

It was said that Bustracker would help CTA for that.

do you people realize that only a slight amount of CTA customers will actually use Bustracker to help them with their commute? The regular CTA customer won't have time, won't feel like it, or won't have any idea about checking bus times on Bustracker.

I'm one of the costumers who would use it. However, I sort of agree that the everyday costumer won't have time, won't feel like it, or won't have any idea about checking bus times on Bustracker.

Once again, Bustracker will mostly (if not only) benefit the CTA: such as, less (if any at all) bus supervisors out there in the cold weather or heat, less (if any at all) bus bunching, and just a way to see that the service is out there where it's suppose to be.

Bustracker will benefit costumers as well. Not all costumers, but some (like myself). There would be supervisors outside, but only a few.

[busfan4022]

Busfan4022: Could you please do me a favor and stay on topic, please? I don't want anymore closed topics. I know this rant is off topic, but I just like to see us all on topic.

Timmy you fail to realize the point of my whole post which is you have time to take other modes of transportation, thats why I leave an hour early so I have time to do other things. When I said you use it as a toy I mean that you use it as a toy simply put. ._. I guess you're too busy agreeing with Busjack on everything you didn't realize that you just replied to my off topic post making you go off topic too. The irony overwhelms me.

Anyway, my overall point is bustracker is flawed. It's only used to make sure buses are on schedule (because lazy supervisors don't wanna stand outside by the bus stop anymore).

Complete waste of money

I'm done with this topic. D:

[BusExpert32]

Anyway, my overall point is bustracker is flawed. It's only used to make sure buses are on schedule (because lazy supervisors don't wanna stand outside by the bus stop anymore).

I would think that the harsh weather conditions play a role in the bus supervisors' "laziness". Being a supervisor is not all it's cracked up to be when you have to stand outside in Chicago's brutle heat and harsh winters.

[Buslover88]

I would think that the harsh weather conditions play a role in the bus supervisors' "laziness". Being a supervisor is not all it's cracked up to be when you have to stand outside in Chicago's brutle heat and harsh winters.

I agree with you, BusExpert. I would say supervisors work very hard.

[BusExpert32]

I agree with you, BusExpert. I would say supervisors work very hard.

But most of them have no idea about the CTA's photo policy....

(sorry if this is off-topic, but some of them just get on my nerves with that)

[Buslover88]

But most of them have no idea about the CTA's photo policy....

True. Anyway, for right now (until #76 Diversey is installed), I am only using Bustracker as a "toy" (or whatever you want to call it). When #76 is installed, then i'll begin using it for communting.

[rmadisonwi]

Anyway, my overall point is bustracker is flawed. It's only used to make sure buses are on schedule (because lazy supervisors don't wanna stand outside by the bus stop anymore).

I disagree. Supervisors (whether "lazy" or otherwise) standing at a bus stop is the worst way to keep a bus running on schedule. Why? Because a supervisor can only do something if the bus is there. If the bus isn't there, what's the supervisor to do?

Many major systems have some sort of GPS tracking system on their buses. Some, such as Milwaukee, have had this system in place for over 15 years. Service can be much more reliable if a controller can see where all the buses are on a route, as opposed to standing on a corner hoping a bus shows up.

Making this system available to the public is a low-cost add-on. If some passengers can use it to improve their trip planning or decision making, then that's a plus. If not, then the basic infrastructure is still there to serve its needed purpose of tracking the service and allowing supervisors and controllers to keep things running on time.

It is not a waste of money. Having dozens of supervisors standing on street corners every few blocks to check up on buses is a waste of money.

[jajuan]

I can't believe how this "extra block" thing is being so obviously misunderstood.

The distance from North Avenue to Divison: 4 blocks.

If you live 1.5 blocks from North Avenue, then you live 2.5 blocks from Division.

The difference between walking 1.5 blocks and walking 2.5 blocks? 1 extra block.

Why in the hell was that so hard? First grade math here, people.

I believe the point of everyone's rant on this point is that that was not clearly stated. All the poster says is walk an extra block instead of referencing to the fact of walking 2.5 blocks to Division as opposed to walking 1.5 blocks to North Avenue. When the whole confusion first started, he should have stated that that's what he was referring to instead of just repeating it's an extra block to Division. Sometimes we have to remember that when we're writing an opinion instead of speaking it verbally we sometimes need to communicate minute details to make sure we're all on the same page. And since this is off topic, I'm done with hearing or speaking on this detail.

[Buslover88]

I disagree. Supervisors standing at a bus stop is the worst way to keep a bus running on schedule. Why? Because a supervisor can only do something if the bus is there. If the bus isn't there, what's the supervisor to do?

Making this system available to the public is a low-cost add-on. If some passengers can use it to improve their trip planning or decision making, then that's a plus. If not, then the basic infrastructure is still there to serve its needed purpose of tracking the service and allowing supervisors and controllers to keep things running on time.

It is not a waste of money. Having dozens of supervisors standing on street corners every few blocks to check up on buses is a waste of money.

I agree with you completey.

[nextstopchicago]

Sometimes we have to remember that when we're writing an opinion instead of speaking it verbally we sometimes need to communicate minute details to make sure we're all on the same page. And since this is off topic, I'm done with hearing or speaking on this detail.

I wasn't writing an opinion. I was writing a fact. You and others jumped to the conclusion that it was wrong, instead of doing some thinking and realizing the obvious explanation.

If you don't want to get criticized, don't rant when you're wrong. If you wonder how it can be that someone could live a block further from Division than from North Ave, ask politely for a math lesson. Don't rant. When you rant about someone else being wrong, and it turns out you're wrong, you get to eat your words. That's life on a public forum.

Meanwhile, an entire thread has been carried on denying that bustracker can and will be used in the ways I've said I will use it. And others have said they will use it. And CTA's stats from the 20 bus show that many people ALREADY use it.

When expressing opinions, you're required to adapt them to known facts, or you'll get ridiculed in return. The fact that people do use it, the fact that several on this forum have talked about how they will use it, you have to acknowledge that.

[Buslover88]

Meanwhile, an entire thread has been carried on denying that bustracker can and will be used in the ways I've said I will use it.

Well, the only thing I can say is that people are going to use Bustracker in different ways. Not the way you want. It's not you're Bustracker.

[nextstopchicago]

Well, the only thing I can say is that people are going to use Bustracker in different ways. Not the way you want. It's not you're Bustracker.

By the way, I'm psyched if you use bustracker in other ways. That's all good. I'm just saying that CTA's stats for the use of the tracker on the #20 and the statements of people here prove that there are a lot of people who will use it to help them make travel choices.

[Buslover88]

I'm just saying that CTA's stats for the use of the tracker on the #20 and the statements of people here prove that there are a lot of people who will use it to help them make travel choices.

Yes, people will use it to help them make travel choices.

[jajuan]

I wasn't writing an opinion. I was writing a fact. You and others jumped to the conclusion that it was wrong, instead of doing some thinking and realizing the obvious explanation.

If you don't want to get criticized, don't rant when you're wrong. If you wonder how it can be that someone could live a block further from Division than from North Ave, ask politely for a math lesson. Don't rant. When you rant about someone else being wrong, and it turns out you're wrong, you get to eat your words. That's life on a public forum.

Meanwhile, an entire thread has been carried on denying that bustracker can and will be used in the ways I've said I will use it. And others have said they will use it. And CTA's stats from the 20 bus show that many people ALREADY use it.

When expressing opinions, you're required to adapt them to known facts, or you'll get ridiculed in return. The fact that people do use it, the fact that several on this forum have talked about how they will use it, you have to acknowledge that.

Let's not take things so personally. I could care less if you criticize me. That's your right. But I still say when you do make your argument, if you don't want anyone to jump all over you be more precise. Many people are using Bustracker fine. That still doesn't automatically mean it will be a useful tool for EVERYONE using the CTA because like it's been pointed out there are those such as school kids and seniors who may not have access to web accessible mobile devices. So that part of your argument is opinion and not fact. I will agree that those who do take time to use it may find it useful. And the idea that it will completely turn around the bus bunching situation has yet to be seen. I will believe that when I see it.

[nextstopchicago]

Let's not take things so personally. I could care less if you criticize me. That's your right. But I still say when you do make your argument, if you don't want anyone to jump all over you be more precise. Many people are using Bustracker fine. That still doesn't automatically mean it will be a useful tool for EVERYONE using the CTA because like it's been pointed out there are those such as school kids and seniors who may not have access to web accessible mobile devices. So that part of your argument is opinion and not fact. I will agree that those who do take time to use it may find it useful. And the idea that it will completely turn around the bus bunching situation has yet to be seen. I will believe that when I see it.

Hmm. Is there a place that is one block further from Division than from North Avenue??? Hmmm. Is that a difficult riddle, or the easiest thing in the world?

No, no, you're absolutely right. I shouldn't assume people here have common sense and can do basic math using numbers of 4 and lower. I'm going to follow your suggestion. You'll see that I've used an asterisk down below to indicate out a place where common sense is needed, and to suggest further options for those who just can't figure it out.

So, first of all, nobody here has said bustracker will be useful to EVERYONE. I certainly never expressed an opinion along those lines, let alone stating it as fact. So you don't gain a lot of points by saying that that part of my argument is opinion and not fact. It's not part of my argument. Don't put words in my mouth.

I agree with you that the tracker will not solve bus bunching. I think it'll be more useful to passengers than to the supervisors, personally.

The only solutions to bus bunching are unpalatable and unproductive. You've either got to send the leader express for a few blocks to skip some passengers and get back on schedule, or you've got to turn the follower early and make it the new leader on the return trip. Both create operational difficulties and a host of problems for riders. And of course, there is the palliative of letting a follower that happens to catch up go in front of its leader to help with the load. This won't get the leader back no schedule, but it does end the vicious cycle, and the leader often makes it to terminal to start its next run on time, rather than having the problem again for the next hour.

Huberman's thought of holding buses at the terminal of origin isn't even worth the time to talk about, it's so poorly thought out. The only thing that will do is ensure that slow buses get slower and slower and slower, till eventually, you'll actually have significantly fewer runs made on the day, each absolutely crammed with passengers and creeping along the road, since the follower, held at the terminal will never catch up and help with the overflow.*

NOTES:

* The thought expressed in the final two paragraphs probably requires a certain amount of common sense math ability. People will need to understand that as a bus gets behind schedule, the number of riders waiting for it grows larger, meaning that it gets slower, meaning the number waiting grows, etc. This is the vicious circle of public bus service. Once a bus is a certain degree behind schedule, there is no way for it to get back on schedule unless it skips some stops, or the bus behind it pulls ahead and takes some of the load. Responders should be forewarned that they should exercise their common sense before ranting that I'm wrong. If they still don't understand, they should ask for an explanation. It's understood here that some posters are lacking in common sense and in basic math abilities, and may need special assistance.