nextstopchicago Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 The rule that the follower couldn't pass the leader was in effect in the mid-90's, when I often got enraged about it while waiting long stretches for the Ashland bus. It was repealed by the early 00's. I'm not sure when it was repealed, but sometime between those periods. As to how some riders contribute to the problems of bunching, whenever I'm at a stop, and someone complains about how long they've been waiting, I try to mention how we can help. Something along the lines of, "I know. I was on a bus the other day, and we missed like 5 lights because of people who got off in the front, blocking everyone from getting on quickly. Pretty soon we were way behind schedule and cram-packed ..." That way, if the person who's complaining is someone who does that, they might get the hint, without feeling like I'm attacking them or anything. You could do the same with the idea of having your fare ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danielsmusic Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 The rule that the follower couldn't pass the leader was in effect in the mid-90's, when I often got enraged about it while waiting long stretches for the Ashland bus. It was repealed by the early 00's. I'm not sure when it was repealed, but sometime between those periods. As to how some riders contribute to the problems of bunching, whenever I'm at a stop, and someone complains about how long they've been waiting, I try to mention how we can help. Something along the lines of, "I know. I was on a bus the other day, and we missed like 5 lights because of people who got off in the front, blocking everyone from getting on quickly. Pretty soon we were way behind schedule and cram-packed ..." That way, if the person who's complaining is someone who does that, they might get the hint, without feeling like I'm attacking them or anything. You could do the same with the idea of having your fare ready. Good suggestion, but I think about 85%-90% of the people who complain would get mad or feel attacked. I try not to intentionally anger strangers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Flyer Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 YOu were always encouraged to pass your leader to keep the service going. The problem was and is some operators like to play games on the street and run late on purpose so other busees would pass them so they could get switched. After while the other operators got fed up picking up extra people and being hollered at by paseengers who were late for work. The only way to try to stop it is by putting supervisors back on the street. About 100 superviosr posiotions have been eliminated. You use to have sign out supervisors that made sure everyopne pulled out on time they were eliminated also. The only rules on passing are no passing on Michigan from Oak to Roosevelt, and State Street from Wacker to Congress. Other than that operatores are allowed to pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUSANGEL#1 Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 I see CTA operators leapfrog each other all the time on #34/119,95E,14,79,87,49,8,9,62,63. This probaly helps the bunching but not the overcrowding. Earlier today I was on a northbound #119 and it was so crowded that it went express from 111th-97th passing up 3 34/119s and 103/106. Some days between 10-25 passengers are left waiting on the 34/119 between 111th/Michigan to 103rd because all of the buses are crowded and they pass up the stops. There has to be another solution to bus bunching and overvrowding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cta_44499_FG Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 YOu were always encouraged to pass your leader to keep the service going. The problem was and is some operators like to play games on the street and run late on purpose so other busees would pass them so they could get switched. After while the other operators got fed up picking up extra people and being hollered at by paseengers who were late for work. The only way to try to stop it is by putting supervisors back on the street. About 100 superviosr posiotions have been eliminated. You use to have sign out supervisors that made sure everyopne pulled out on time they were eliminated also. The only rules on passing are no passing on Michigan from Oak to Roosevelt, and State Street from Wacker to Congress. Other than that operatores are allowed to pass. the only time this is for say, "bent", is if the bus ahead of you is of the same route...and you DO NOT have anyone getting off at that stop. Then, the passing in these situations is done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cta_44499_FG Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 There are still some scheduled short turns that do take place.... 147 at Devon 151 at Belmont/Halsted 77 at Octavia 152 at Austin or Harlem 62 at Cicero 63W at 65th/Old Harlem 56 at Logan Square any others that anyone can think of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 55 has a regular short turn at St. Louis. Some of the ones you mention seem to be regular scheduled ones, like 147 at Devon. 151 at Belmont/Halsted is like a different route (K buses instead of NP, and some say that is the remnant of 153). The topic here seemed to be whether they short turn to make schedule, not per schedule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 There are still some scheduled short turns that do take place.... 147 at Devon 151 at Belmont/Halsted 77 at Octavia 152 at Austin or Harlem 62 at Cicero 63W at 65th/Old Harlem 56 at Logan Square any others that anyone can think of? 82 has school day short run trips that end at Cermak/Central Pk. 136 used to have them at Sheridan/Bryn Mawr. The 6 before the LSD restructurings had them at 83rd/Jeffery and after the restructings it used to have them daily at 63rd/Stony. I'm not sure if it still has them during PM rush. Before the 127 was changed to its current format, the 12 had them between Western and Michigan during rush hour. After the 25 was permanently merged with the 21, the weekend alternating trips that ended at 54th/Cermak could be thought of as scheduled short runs. As far as nonscheduled short runs, the 12 has them at Pulaski or Cicero. The 85 had them at Jefferson Pk. I'm not sure if that is still the case. The 82 had them at Belmont/Kimball (not counting the former late Sunday evening ones that were scheduled up until last year). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cta_44499_FG Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 55 has a regular short turn at St. Louis. Some of the ones you mention seem to be regular scheduled ones, like 147 at Devon. 151 at Belmont/Halsted is like a different route (K buses instead of NP, and some say that is the remnant of 153). The topic here seemed to be whether they short turn to make schedule, not per schedule. ] the point was that there were indeed "scheduled" short turns, opposed to short turns made to fix the schedule. However, some of those that were mentioned are used ALSO to make schedule. So, to correct the subject, here are some short turns that do occur on many routes, SCHEDULED or UNSCHEDULED that I've seen happen or even did myself: 22 at Devon, Belmont/Halsted, Wacker, Jackson 36 at State/Lake, Waveland/Broadway 54A at Montrose, Skokie Swift, Old Orchard Mall 56 at Logan Square, Chicago, or Canal 77 at Central, Kimball, Halsted, Octavia 78 at Read Hospital (Oak Park/Forest Preserve) or Narargansett 80 at Harlem ( if too late to make Cumberland) or even at Central has been done 81 at Broadway or Western 82 at Foster, Lawrence, Belmont, Cermak 85 at Jefferson Park or Lake 86 at Wright College or North Ave 90 at Grand or North Ave 91 at Division, Chicago, Madison, or Jackson 92 at North Park Garage 93 at North Park Garage 136 at Bryn Mawr/Sheridan 147 at Devon, Bryn Mawr 151 at Foster, Belmont/Sheridan, Belmont/Halsted, Adams/State 152 at Austin, Harlem, Cumberland, Western 201 at Central/Crawford, Davis Purple Line 205 at Davis Purple Line, Old Orchard Mall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 ] the point was that there were indeed "scheduled" short turns, opposed to short turns made to fix the schedule. However, some of those that were mentioned are used ALSO to make schedule. So, to correct the subject, here are some short turns that do occur on many routes, SCHEDULED or UNSCHEDULED that I've seen happen or even did myself: 22 at Devon, Belmont/Halsted, Wacker, Jackson 36 at State/Lake, Waveland/Broadway 54A at Montrose, Skokie Swift, Old Orchard Mall 56 at Logan Square, Chicago, or Canal 77 at Central, Kimball, Halsted, Octavia 78 at Read Hospital (Oak Park/Forest Preserve) or Narargansett 80 at Harlem ( if too late to make Cumberland) or even at Central has been done 81 at Broadway or Western 82 at Foster, Lawrence, Belmont, Cermak 85 at Jefferson Park or Lake 86 at Wright College or North Ave 90 at Grand or North Ave 91 at Division, Chicago, Madison, or Jackson 92 at North Park Garage 93 at North Park Garage 136 at Bryn Mawr/Sheridan 147 at Devon, Bryn Mawr 151 at Foster, Belmont/Sheridan, Belmont/Halsted, Adams/State 152 at Austin, Harlem, Cumberland, Western 201 at Central/Crawford, Davis Purple Line 205 at Davis Purple Line, Old Orchard Mall #152 used to have a short turn westbound at the blue line in the early 90's (maybe they still do) for ballgame trips. They take Addison westbound to Avondale, Avondale NW to Pulaski, Pulaski SB to Addison EB over the regular route. I remember back in the day a #9200 died out on the turn at Avondale/Pulaski. He was completely blocking traffic and everyone was honking at him. I bet he was mad. He was there for about 10 minutes got the bus back restarted and left. That was a wild thing to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nextstopchicago Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 The only way to try to stop it is by putting supervisors back on the street. About 100 superviosr posiotions have been eliminated. I'd say this differently -- the only way to stop it is to give supervisors a way to know where the buses are. One very clumsy way is for a supervisor to stand on a street corner, which would give that supervisor the ability to know when buses pass one particular intersection on 2 to 3 routes. A supervisor can supervise very little this way. Another way is bus tracker, which can allow a supervisor to sit virtually anywhere and see at a glance where all the buses on his routes are. If a driver is staying behind the crowded bus, this will be VERY obvious on bus tracker. Not only to the supervisor, but also to HIS (or her) supervisor, who will be able to see reports that will pull out patterns like this after the fact. Supervisors who consistently fail to fix the situation will be obvious, whereas now there is literally no way to assess the performance of a supervisor, because he can always say I didn't know and it's plausible. You use to have sign out supervisors that made sure everyopne pulled out on time they were eliminated also. Again, tracker completely eliminates the need for someone to stand at the end of a route to see if buses pull out on time. This is a routine report. I've linked before to one version of a tracker report - which will show for a given bus the dwell time at each corner. You can look at this automated report at the end of the day and know far more about what happened on those routes than the network of supervisors could know by standing around all day. Supervision becomes a matter of trusting most drivers to do what's right, because they typically do, and being able to zero in on drivers who are screwing things up. The driver who routinely stopped for coffee at North Avenue and Hermitage would be noticed -- "Why does your bus dwell for 5 minutes every morning at Hermitage?" Now I'm all for drivers getting coffee if they really need it, even mid-route every now and then if they're feeling particularly drowsy. But you'd need to justify this a few times when you really were drowsy, rather than just doing it daily because you thought the woman behind the counter was cute, and then telling your supervisor "you know how traffic is around Ashland ..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danielsmusic Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 136 used to have them at Sheridan/Bryn Mawr. The 6 before the LSD restructurings had them at 83rd/Jeffery and after the restructings it used to have them daily at 63rd/Stony. I'm not sure if it still has them during PM rush. The 136 still does at Bryn Mawr during the PM rush if the driver's really, really behind schedule. The 6 still does have about five 63rd/Stony short-turns during the day. The 85 had them at Jefferson Pk. I'm not sure if that is still the case. Yes it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danielsmusic Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 I've linked before to one version of a tracker report - which will show for a given bus the dwell time at each corner. You can look at this automated report at the end of the day and know far more about what happened on those routes than the network of supervisors could know by standing around all day. Supervision becomes a matter of trusting most drivers to do what's right, because they typically do, and being able to zero in on drivers who are screwing things up. The driver who routinely stopped for coffee at North Avenue and Hermitage would be noticed -- "Why does your bus dwell for 5 minutes every morning at Hermitage?" Now I'm all for drivers getting coffee if they really need it, even mid-route every now and then if they're feeling particularly drowsy. But you'd need to justify this a few times when you really were drowsy, rather than just doing it daily because you thought the woman behind the counter was cute, and then telling your supervisor "you know how traffic is around Ashland ..." I've noticed about ten Chicago drivers who ignore the supervisors every day. There's this one who does the 72 in the evening who always choses a Flxible. He say he takes a Flxible because he loves them. However, because 95% of the Flxibles are slow beyond belief, this driver is ALWAYS late. The supervisor always tells him to short-turn at Pulaski, and he always continues west to Harlem. To make up for this time, he runs all the lights. Now, it may just be me, but doesn't this seem a little...well, stupid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danielsmusic Posted February 10, 2008 Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 ] the point was that there were indeed "scheduled" short turns, opposed to short turns made to fix the schedule. However, some of those that were mentioned are used ALSO to make schedule. So, to correct the subject, here are some short turns that do occur on many routes, SCHEDULED or UNSCHEDULED that I've seen happen or even did myself: 22 at Devon, Belmont/Halsted, Wacker, Jackson 36 at State/Lake, Waveland/Broadway 54A at Montrose, Skokie Swift, Old Orchard Mall 56 at Logan Square, Chicago, or Canal 77 at Central, Kimball, Halsted, Octavia 78 at Read Hospital (Oak Park/Forest Preserve) or Narargansett 80 at Harlem ( if too late to make Cumberland) or even at Central has been done 81 at Broadway or Western 82 at Foster, Lawrence, Belmont, Cermak 85 at Jefferson Park or Lake 86 at Wright College or North Ave 90 at Grand or North Ave 91 at Division, Chicago, Madison, or Jackson 92 at North Park Garage 93 at North Park Garage 136 at Bryn Mawr/Sheridan 147 at Devon, Bryn Mawr 151 at Foster, Belmont/Sheridan, Belmont/Halsted, Adams/State 152 at Austin, Harlem, Cumberland, Western 201 at Central/Crawford, Davis Purple Line 205 at Davis Purple Line, Old Orchard Mall Other ones that I've seen or (very occasionally) driven are: 1 at Drexel (when it still went to 63rd/Stony) 3 at 79th, Wacker X3 / 3L at 79th, Wacker 4 at 69th X4 at 69th 6 at 63rd/Stony 8 at North/Clybourn, Belmont 9 at 63rd, Division 11 at Fullerton 18 at California 23 at Austin 24 at 79th (when it still went along Vincennes) 27 at 92nd 28 at 95th, 100th, 47th/Lake Park when it still went to the 47th Red Line) X28 at 95th, 100th 36 at Wilson 37 Sedgwick/Ogden at Wacker both NB and SB, Adams both NB and SB 38 Michigan Express at Michigan/63rd 61 at Austin 70 at Pulaski 72 at Halsted, Ashland, Pulaski, Cicero/Grand, Central 74 at California/Blue Line 76 at Blue Line 84 at Pulaski 106 at 103rd Garage (when it still went to 112th) 110 at 63rd/Kedzie 135 start at Irving/Lake Shore (when it was the Wilson/LaSalle) 136 start at Foster/Sheridan 145 start at Irving/Lake Shore (when there was no 148) 146 at Irving (when there was no 144), Congress (before 2003) 147 at Foster, Wacker 155 at Devon/Sheridan 156 at North, Fullerton, Diversey, Belmont/Sheridan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted February 10, 2008 Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 Speaking of the 70, I remember short runs happening EB at Milwaukee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.