School runs

[Guest]

Other than that, it *technically* shouldn't be a problem since artics are on Addison from time to time. If this is the only problem, then have the bus stop across the street to accommodate the artics there.

Of course, the next reasonable solution is to implement a "BRT-lane" on the entire street (Halsted to Narragansett)

Belmont does have quite a bit of its stops now moved across the street that also would pose a problem for artics. Only one bus would be able to occupy the stop. Addison route is more suitable for artics no doubt because it is congested just as Belmont is but Addison has a bit more room to move than Belmont does.

[sw4400]

Believe it when I tell you and Im telling you from facts because I am an experienced Belmont operator my entire five years that I spent at FG. There is not one operator that would let his or her bus get crowded.

If only you saw the bus I was on about two years back... Even the passengers were complaining about how there literately was no breathing room with all seats taken, all aisle space, and people standing in the stairwell of the 6000-Series Flxible I was on(that operator just kept squeezing more and more people in, even at subsequent stops after the Kimball Blue Line Station). I had to snake through people just to get to the doors to get off, and that was hard with people with backpacks and plane luggage in the aisles.

SW4400, you said before to tell the the riders that they would have to wait for the next bus, that you dont care? Try telling that to the passengers that are waiting in the subzero temps or on a 95 degree day and I think youll get an unpleasant response. Theres no doubt in my mind the bus operator is in control but in some cases that dosent always happen. Theres times you have to just sit there and just deal with it.

I am in Customer Service, CTA5750, I know that the 'customer is always right'. But in this instance of the extremely overcrowded bus, the driver couldn't even see that right side mirror. Suppose a bicyclist was passing on the right as the bus approached a stop and the driver couldn't even see him/her? CRUNCH!!! That's what would've happened(I've seen bicyclists pass buses on the right as they're driving down the street). Either way, I think in this instance, you'll get reported. Whether it's by the angry people you turn away, or by people complaining of you overcrowding the bus to the point of people standing in the stairwell/wheelchair ramp area.

Here's an example from another transit agency.... please look...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Dfmw87aRVE (picture this as the Kimball Blue Line Stop)

I guess it's how you say.... pick your poison.

[Guest]

If only you saw the bus I was on about two years back... Even the passengers were complaining about how there literately was no breathing room with all seats taken, all aisle space, and people standing in the stairwell of the 6000-Series Flxible I was on(that operator just kept squeezing more and more people in, even at subsequent stops after the Kimball Blue Line Station). I had to snake through people just to get to the doors to get off, and that was hard with people with backpacks and plane luggage in the aisles.

I am in Customer Service, CTA5750, I know that the 'customer is always right'. But in this instance of the extremely overcrowded bus, the driver couldn't even see that right side mirror. Suppose a bicyclist was passing on the right as the bus approached a stop and the driver couldn't even see him/her? CRUNCH!!! That's what would've happened(I've seen bicyclists pass buses on the right as they're driving down the street). Either way, I think in this instance, you'll get reported. Whether it's by the angry people you turn away, or by people complaining of you overcrowding the bus to the point of people standing in the stairwell/wheelchair ramp area.

Here's an example from another transit agency.... please look...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Dfmw87aRVE (picture this as the Kimball Blue Line Stop)

I guess it's how you say.... pick your poison.

Plain and simple, If I cant see the right side mirror or the bus for any reason, I WILL NOT MOVE THE BUS!. No exceptions! Of course there are hazards everywhere but standees are permitted on buses and theres no way to control it until its gets to a point when you cant squeeze one more passenger on. CTA bosses will not tell you you cant have passengers standing. One morning back in 1999 I even had Frank Kruesi board my 156 LaSalle bus and it was packed. He stood right next to me. He didnt say a word just gave me a "good morning". But I made sure I could see my right side mirror. Passengers have no argument if they wanted make a complaint because that is not the operators fault. As long as the operator has made every effort to inform the passengers that the bus is full. But of course there are people that try to squeeze in that last inch of room left. If a bus operator chooses to crowd bus to the point where they cant see their mirrors then he is asking for trouble. I dont like having a crowded bus but I still have to make an effort to try to accomodate as many passengers as I can but until I feel it has reached capacity normally right about the standee line area or a little forward of it, I will inform them no more passengers. But of course some passenger choose not to listen they just want to go home. If passengers dont listen to me I simply dont move the bus! This happens quite often on Belmont and not just at Kimball, it happens at various points along the line. The Belmont/Sheffield L stop WB is another problem area. You have to be in the bus drivers seat to understand what its like. Youre absolutely right, the "Customer is always right" I have no problem with that but I still have to make every effort to try to accomodate them. But if it gets to the point where its difficult for me to move the bus I wont move it unless theres another bus coming up behind then Ill direct them to the next bus. And believe it or not some passengers are picky of the type of bus they want or dont want to board. Also, I can tell you this, CTA management has told me in the past "I cant deny boarding to any passenger". In fact Ive been told Im not allowed to pass up another bus on the same line even if its crowded. Maybe, hopefully the policy has changed by now. Ive been written up twice for passing another bus even though it was packed. I was picked off by a spotter, both times on Belmont! You know it sucks but thats the reality of it. I dont know how the bus operators did it in the days when buses didnt have right side mirrors. Im sure it was ten times more of a challenge.

[cta_44499_FG]

Plain and simple, If I cant see the right side mirror or the bus for any reason, I WILL NOT MOVE THE BUS!. No exceptions! Of course there are hazards everywhere but standees are permitted on buses and theres no way to control it until its gets to a point when you cant squeeze one more passenger on. CTA bosses will not tell you you cant have passengers standing. One morning back in 1999 I even had Frank Kruesi board my 156 LaSalle bus and it was packed. He stood right next to me. He didnt say a word just gave me a "good morning". But I made sure I could see my right side mirror. Passengers have no argument if they wanted make a complaint because that is not the operators fault. As long as the operator has made every effort to inform the passengers that the bus is full. But of course there are people that try to squeeze in that last inch of room left. If a bus operator chooses to crowd bus to the point where they cant see their mirrors then he is asking for trouble. I dont like having a crowded bus but I still have to make an effort to try to accomodate as many passengers as I can but until I feel it has reached capacity normally right about the standee line area or a little forward of it, I will inform them no more passengers. But of course some passenger choose not to listen they just want to go home. If passengers dont listen to me I simply dont move the bus! This happens quite often on Belmont and not just at Kimball, it happens at various points along the line. The Belmont/Sheffield L stop WB is another problem area. You have to be in the bus drivers seat to understand what its like. Youre absolutely right, the "Customer is always right" I have no problem with that but I still have to make every effort to try to accomodate them. But if it gets to the point where its difficult for me to move the bus I wont move it unless theres another bus coming up behind then Ill direct them to the next bus. And believe it or not some passengers are picky of the type of bus they want or dont want to board. Also, I can tell you this, CTA management has told me in the past "I cant deny boarding to any passenger". In fact Ive been told Im not allowed to pass up another bus on the same line even if its crowded. Maybe, hopefully the policy has changed by now. Ive been written up twice for passing another bus even though it was packed. I was picked off by a spotter, both times on Belmont! You know it sucks but thats the reality of it. I dont know how the bus operators did it in the days when buses didnt have right side mirrors. Im sure it was ten times more of a challenge.

I have to say I'm standing with CTA5750 on this one! (No pun intended ) I've had many of these same experiences while I was still operating at FG...Belmont was one of them, Lawrence could be just as bad or even worse! Irving Park never really was a problem.

Being at North Park before and now again as a full-time operator, I have to say the worst street for overcrowding and more BAR NONE is the 22 Clark. You can have a standing load even on a 4 minute headway very easily...the street is just that busy, and from the passengers perspective they just see an overcrowded bus...but again like 5750 said they just want to get home. I'm sure our Chicago operators can vouch some of there own experiences on the 66 and the like.

I can recall an experience I had on the 135, a young lady had squeezed on the bare room I had left by the last stop at Wacker and Columbus before hitting the drive....with the addition of her it was troublesome to see the mirror. I asked her to either step out or step in so that I could see...she complied for about 40 seconds then got rite back in the same spot again and glarred at me as if I were picking on her. At this point I was headed down alongside Navy Pier to hit the LSD ramp. By the third time she did it again actually on the drive a male passenger had spoken for me...."Can you stop getting in his mirror so he can see, it's not there for you to look at". WOW!!!!!!! This same guy thanked me for the ride when he got off. Now thats a customer worth making the day for!

My point is....5750 is right....the safety of the passengers as well as the operator cannot be taken lightly. I don't like a crowded bus either, but it happens and as operators we need the passengers to work with us hand in hand. It helps everyone in the long run. Like it was said, some people don't mind waiting on the next bus...the "less educated" ones are a little harder to deal with and will still attempt to board even if 10 busses empty were behind yours. It's just the way it is.

And fyi, I watched that video that sw4400 posted with him comment. Sure I can see it as the Kimball Blue Line...minus the stairwell with about 20-30 more people wrapped around that too! :blink:

[Busjack]

Artics theoretically would work but once again the issue of narrow main streets such as long narrow stretches of Belmont might be an issue. Particularly the WB turn off of Kimball term. onto Belmont, sometimes it can be tough even for a 40 footer. I think there would be a high accident rate for artics on Belmont, not to say FG operators arent the best!

Would seem to be an argument for an artic, since it consists of two 30 foot buses instead of one 40 foot one, unless they are afraid that the back end will whack something.

[BusHunter]

Would seem to be an argument for an artic, since it consists of two 30 foot buses instead of one 40 foot one, unless they are afraid that the back end will whack something.

Belmont would be a good candidate for BRT. Put parking restrictions in place giving two lanes to work with and the street would speed up dramatically. Also the kimball stop could be placed on the north side of the street WB. If the passengers want a BRT go over there for it. Locals would remain in the terminal. Belmont's problem is that it's real slow. A lot of sitting in traffic. Alot of local stops to slow down travel. Probably the worst route to drive for FG or to commute on if your in a hurry.

[pudgym29]

Since #77 Belmont is the route which gets the majority of my rides (I shall be on it late this Monday evening.), I'll give more detail on its operation.

Eastbound, buses have very slow running between Cicero and Kimball. There is also temporary street construction just east of Milwaukee Ave., which creates a bottleneck for both directions. The EB stop at Pulaski was moved to the far side until conversion of the Florsheim shoe factory to condos was begun. The conversions are finished, but the stop remains on the near side. So here, the #77 WB stop is the only one which is far side.

East of Kimball (and you cannot have a Belmont route variation which does not stop at the Blue Line "L" station), the route goes swifter until Ravenswood Ave. The intersections of Paulina & Lincoln | Ashland are tedious to transit.

When you reach Racine; the run times vary depending on whether it is b**eball season and if there is a home game for the local franchise.

I repeat: Late in the evening, the last WB run through to Cumberland can encounter crush conditions on a 40-foot bus. An interlining run of an articulated bus from Kedzie (or Forest Glen) (coming from either #52 or #82), going east on #77, making one run WB to Cumberland, and then a short-turn east to Kimball or California back to their home garage should be able to handle the load.

Westbound buses do fill up from Halsted | Clark | the north side "L". Most passengers boarding here exit before Kimball. Having periodically being part of the horde boarding there (most of the time, I actually ride to Montrose and walk the two blocks to the #54 Cicero at Cicero & Pensacola ~ because I want its late evening runs to keep operating); there is some crowding on the route then, but it's not a crush condition. It is mostly that riders do not take the two steps up to the high-floor section of the bus to stand there. I push my way through them, get to the rear, and even sometimes find an unoccupied seat.