CTA High Hopes

[jajuan]

The big papers today had front page stories that CTA's board voted yesterday to make the move to apply for federal funds to begin preliminary work, involving engineering studies and environmental impact assessments for the extensions of the Red, Yellow and Orange Lines. The stories point out that actual building of the extensions is years to come if it ever even happens, given the 40 years that CTA been 'planning' to extend rail lines. Apparently though the Blue Line extension past O'Hare into Schaumburg didn't make the cut in the vote. Also mentioned is that the Yellow Line extension is already facing opposition up in Skokie. The articles also mention 173, 174 and 200 are up for elimination come Sept. 6. Public hearings are being set relating to the eliminations. That means though that 173 and 174 are already dead since they don't operate in summer months.

[Busjack]

The CTA releases are clear, while the press reports are not, is that the Board only voted that the three were the "locally preferred alternatives." Just about everyone reported that they have to go through environmental review and preliminary engineering before they can even apply for federal money to do actual construction.

The Blue Line ceased to be on the CTA's list of things to even include in the New Start Bill when the Metra Star Line was appointed the locally preferred alternative by the RTA about 5 years ago. Likewise, even though Lipinski Sr. was touting the Ogden-Carroll trolley, it appears that the only portion left is the Carroll connector, and that became a city project.

What was more surprising was that while the Circle Line got through the first two screens 3 years ago, it wasn't on this list, and according to its page, is going through another screen this fall.

[BusHunter]

The CTA releases are clear, while the press reports are not, is that the Board only voted that the three were the "locally preferred alternatives." Just about everyone reported that they have to go through environmental review and preliminary engineering before they can even apply for federal money to do actual construction.

The Blue Line ceased to be on the CTA's list of things to even include in the New Start Bill when the Metra Star Line was appointed the locally preferred alternative by the RTA about 5 years ago. Likewise, even though Lipinski Sr. was touting the Ogden-Carroll trolley, it appears that the only portion left is the Carroll connector, and that became a city project.

What was more surprising was that while the Circle Line got through the first two screens 3 years ago, it wasn't on this list, and according to its page, is going through another screen this fall.

Here's a link outlining the red, yellow and orange line projects. In there they state the environmental review will get underway in the fall of 2009 and an application will be sent in the spring of 2010 for the preliminary engineering study. They also list all the steps still needed to be completed. It seems like a lot of preparation and steps. No wonder it will be 2016 at the earliest for these projects to be completed. It's pretty cool how they can forcast how many railcars are needed per line. About 100 in all. It would seem the circle line is on the slower track but could be possibly completed in full itself by 2030. I find it interesting that the projects will be completed for the olympics, if indeed we do get them. It's also interesting there's been no mention of the block 37 super project that's half done. It would seem to me this project would have the most beneficial impact for the olympics, having a express train from O'hare or midway. Even if they couldn't run expresses due to a lack of tracks, just having the connection in place would allow you to possibly send some blue line trains down temporarily towards Washington Park. They would need an increase in service levels anyway and a direct ride from the airport sounds very inviting to tourists and olympic crowds who would be most likely coming from the airport or hotels on the west end of the blue line. As far as the elimination of the #173, #174 it also states in the link the University recommends they pull the plug on these due to low ridership. So there giving them what they want. Probably the #192 serves the university better because of the many students who would use Metra that it connects to. Also the red line is basically taking customers to Lakeview on the fast track, so it's more preferred. The #200 is most likely victim of the rand mcnally closing in Jan 2009. There just aren't that many riders up there to justify a service now.

[BusExpert32]

As far as the elimination of the #173, #174 it also states in the link the University recommends they pull the plug on these due to low ridership. So there giving them what they want. Probably the #192 serves the university better because of the many students who would use Metra that it connects to. Also the red line is basically taking customers to Lakeview on the fast track, so it's more preferred. The #200 is most likely victim of the rand mcnally closing in Jan 2009. There just aren't that many riders up there to justify a service now.

From what I've read, I find it pretty clear that the University of Chicago intends to pull the plug on the current #173 and #174 routes in order to combine them into a new #173 route that they want to start service this fall.

[Busjack]

From what I've read, I find it pretty clear that the University of Chicago intends to pull the plug on the current #173 and #174 routes in order to combine them into a new #173 route that they want to start service this fall.

I've mentioned before that that wasn't clear. I take CTA at its word that "eliminated" means "eliminated." If some substitute were planned for 173, CTA wouldn't have kept repeating that the "University requested discontinuance of service" and alternate service was available on the 2, 6, X28, and 192, even though one has to transfer downtown to get to Lakeview.

If something new, such as the 61st-Ellis dorm bus is on line, it would have to be by the start of the academic quarter, which is September 21. So, if there is going to be a new route, they have a month to get it approved by the CTA Board. But, nothing like that was on the Strategic Planning report (just that the hours and frequency of 171 and 172 would be cut and 173 and 174 eliminated).

I see that the U of C hasn't updated its site. If you have some official source showing that that is clear, please post a link to it.

[artthouwill]

Here's a link outlining the red, yellow and orange line projects. In there they state the environmental review will get underway in the fall of 2009 and an application will be sent in the spring of 2010 for the preliminary engineering study. They also list all the steps still needed to be completed. It seems like a lot of preparation and steps. No wonder it will be 2016 at the earliest for these projects to be completed. It's pretty cool how they can forcast how many railcars are needed per line. About 100 in all. It would seem the circle line is on the slower track but could be possibly completed in full itself by 2030. I find it interesting that the projects will be completed for the olympics, if indeed we do get them. It's also interesting there's been no mention of the block 37 super project that's half done. It would seem to me this project would have the most beneficial impact for the olympics, having a express train from O'hare or midway. Even if they couldn't run expresses due to a lack of tracks, just having the connection in place would allow you to possibly send some blue line trains down temporarily towards Washington Park. They would need an increase in service levels anyway and a direct ride from the airport sounds very inviting to tourists and olympic crowds who would be most likely coming from the airport or hotels on the west end of the blue line. As far as the elimination of the #173, #174 it also states in the link the University recommends they pull the plug on these due to low ridership. So there giving them what they want. Probably the #192 serves the university better because of the many students who would use Metra that it connects to. Also the red line is basically taking customers to Lakeview on the fast track, so it's more preferred. The #200 is most likely victim of the rand mcnally closing in Jan 2009. There just aren't that many riders up there to justify a service now.

What I find interesting is the Rd Line routing south of 95th. In other threads, I've been touting the I-57 routing of the Red Line all the way to Burr Oak Ave because it is the easiest, most environmentally friendliest, and possibly the cheapest route to take. So why insist on a route following UP tracks from 111th to 130th? They would need to build elevated tracks through that portion which would add to the cost, not to mention ROW issues. Certainly people would be clamoring for additional stops south of 111th (Michigan Ave and Halsted come to mind {though I would think Halsted at 99th would be an ideal stop} ).

As for the Orange Line extension, why wasn't this done in the original build? I don't see adding a stop at Marquette as beneficial since it is a low population density area. Any transportation along the 65th and Marquette corridors can either use the existing Midway station or the one at Ford City.

As for the Yellow Line extension, we know the real reason for Skokie residents opposing an extension to Old Orchard Mall (don't want those dark skinned peopld from Chicago bringing their rap and gangbangin ways to the lily Skokie mall or school or community) . But add that Oakton stop will ya?

[Busjack]

[1]What I find interesting is the Rd Line routing south of 95th. In other threads, I've been touting the I-57 routing of the Red Line all the way to Burr Oak Ave because it is the easiest, most environmentally friendliest, and possibly the cheapest route to take. So why insist on a route following UP tracks from 111th to 130th? They would need to build elevated tracks through that portion which would add to the cost, not to mention ROW issues. Certainly people would be clamoring for additional stops south of 111th (Michigan Ave and Halsted come to mind {though I would think Halsted at 99th would be an ideal stop} ).

[2]As for the Orange Line extension, why wasn't this done in the original build? I don't see adding a stop at Marquette as beneficial since it is a low population density area. Any transportation along the 65th and Marquette corridors can either use the existing Midway station or the one at Ford City.

[3]As for the Yellow Line extension, we know the real reason for Skokie residents opposing an extension to Old Orchard Mall (don't want those dark skinned peopld from Chicago bringing their rap and gangbangin ways to the lily Skokie mall or school or community) . But add that Oakton stop will ya?

1. I have surmised that because that comes too close to the RI local service, but I would have voted for either a Halsted or Michigan subway. They won't happen, though.

2. Money money money money money. Basically that's what they had after the Crosstown Expressway turn in.

3. There are other more serious issues, such as condemnation of school property, lack of direct proximity to destinations, putting an L in a suburb, and the comparatively low potential for ridership, even according to the Strategic Planning Report, to have to go to your explanation. If it were a correct one, those peopld [sic] can get off at Dempster and take the 54A and 97 bus, and I am sure plenty of them take the 201 or 205 bus from Evanston or drive there. In fact, someone at the CTA Tattler is justifying this extension on the basis that Lakeview yuppies will use it to go shopping at Old Orchard. I don't think that is likely, either.

I'm not saying not to build it, but that my priorities are more congruent with those in this Tribune editorial.

[BusHunter]

What I find interesting is the Rd Line routing south of 95th. In other threads, I've been touting the I-57 routing of the Red Line all the way to Burr Oak Ave because it is the easiest, most environmentally friendliest, and possibly the cheapest route to take. So why insist on a route following UP tracks from 111th to 130th? They would need to build elevated tracks through that portion which would add to the cost, not to mention ROW issues. Certainly people would be clamoring for additional stops south of 111th (Michigan Ave and Halsted come to mind {though I would think Halsted at 99th would be an ideal stop} ).

As for the Orange Line extension, why wasn't this done in the original build? I don't see adding a stop at Marquette as beneficial since it is a low population density area. Any transportation along the 65th and Marquette corridors can either use the existing Midway station or the one at Ford City.

As for the Yellow Line extension, we know the real reason for Skokie residents opposing an extension to Old Orchard Mall (don't want those dark skinned peopld from Chicago bringing their rap and gangbangin ways to the lily Skokie mall or school or community) . But add that Oakton stop will ya?

CBS news reports that south of 119th the red line extension route will be at grade. Probably the most expensive parts of that project will be the access bridges from SB Dan Ryan/ Bishop Ford to I-57. With the yard running the line towards the Bishop Ford I don't know where they'll put a switch to I-57 extension. I see something possibly like Howard Yard with bypasses over yard tracks, something that would be more complicated dealing with the expressway that's there. I- 57 doesn't really have the room to accomadate the train unlike the bishop ford which has more space. But at least they'll get more customers the way there going with it. Probably alot of the Skokie residents who balked at this plan don't even ride the "L". Don't they see this will help their high school kids move around the community as well as give them speedier access to places like wrigley field. I know one thing the westfield shopping center is not complaining. It should also be interesting to see the completed Orange line. I wonder if anyone's thought of possible blind spots this would make to Cicero traffic running above it. Also how would it interact with the cicero bridge over the train yard there. Might be some nice views of the loop from there.

[artthouwill]

CBS news reports that south of 119th the red line extension route will be at grade. Probably the most expensive parts of that project will be the access bridges from SB Dan Ryan/ Bishop Ford to I-57. With the yard running the line towards the Bishop Ford I don't know where they'll put a switch to I-57 extension. I see something possibly like Howard Yard with bypasses over yard tracks, something that would be more complicated dealing with the expressway that's there. I- 57 doesn't really have the room to accomadate the train unlike the bishop ford which has more space. But at least they'll get more customers the way there going with it. Probably alot of the Skokie residents who balked at this plan don't even ride the "L". Don't they see this will help their high school kids move around the community as well as give them speedier access to places like wrigley field. I know one thing the westfield shopping center is not complaining. It should also be interesting to see the completed Orange line. I wonder if anyone's thought of possible blind spots this would make to Cicero traffic running above it. Also how would it interact with the cicero bridge over the train yard there. Might be some nice views of the loop from there.

Now I understand the routing of the Rd Line extension. This would mean routes 103 and 106 could be combined into one route, and the 111 and the 111th portion of the 112 being combined into one route. The current Pullmam and the 115th portion could remain one route to 111th/Vincennes OR could be a bidirectional loop via 95th, Cottage, 115th, Vincennes, and 95th. E buses would travel that route and W buses would travel the reverse route. The 352 and 359 would terminate at 115th, but where would you put a bus turnaround? The 353 would terminate at 130th with the 355 and 358 extending there as well.

My question concerns 130th. Will the route follow the up tracks all the way or will they follow the South Shore tracks to 130th?

As for the Orange line there seems to only be two choices, either tunnel under the RR yard south of Marquette or build an elevated structure over the yard, but neither would involve Cicero Avenue.

[Busjack]

The map in the Board Presentation indicates basically along the South Shore, with the station just west of the I-94 interchange. Probably still conceptual, though.

I seem to remember a news story that the city had reserved land on 115th between State and Michigan for a transit terminal. Couldn't find it right off, but did find something about the city condemning a shopping center around there.

On the Orange Line, it would be an overpass over the tracks, but Cicero Ave. is involved because south of the tracks, the mall itself is on the direct south alignment of the existing Orange Line, so the alternatives analysis indicated either via Cicero or Kostner between 71st and either 76th or 79th, and Cicero "won."

On the bus side, I suppose it is about 5 years too early to get any definitive word about that. I hadn't thought about linking the east and west sides of 111th, and I suppose that depends on whether Vincennes really needs service. Of course, since I see Cottage going back to #104 to 115th, as it was starting in 1969, it would also be possible to have a short Vincennes route. (I see your point about the loop, although I wonder if they would put more buses on 95th.) I also foresee a 130th bus connecting Hegewisch and Altgeld with the 130th station.

Which brings up the most interesting political speculation: Pace could cut back 353 to 130th-State/Indiana, and route it into the 130th-Doty station, as you suggested. That would really raise the question whether King Dr. south of 95th is its responsibility. Maybe CTA should have a 104 S. Cottage-S. King loop.

[BusHunter]

The board presentation shows an artist rendering of what the elevated orange will look like over Cicero, if you go back to my link. (or click Busjack's above) I'm just thinking the Cicero bridge is roughly to 71st. The orange line would have to run along it until it is low enough to travel over so roughly I'm thinking 71st to 76th for the Cicero portion. It would seem easier to just run it straight to Ford City. But you have to take in consideration CTA doesn't own Ford city's land and this is probably cheaper. It kind of reminds me of when they built the original "L". As far as the "red line to 130th" bus alignments I was thinking perhaps you could extend the 24 to 111th, there are a few schools around there that could use the service. Merge the #111 and #112 together or make the #112 a west 111th bus and just leave the 111 as a circle loop route for the 111th/115th corridors. Then you have all these North south routes like the #29, #34, #3 and #4. Would they all be extended to 115th and the #34 cut back? With the orange line bus changes, you know all the Pace routes except #386 will go back to the old pre 1993 alignments. It should be interesting to see where these will layover at. There going to be a lot of changes when the time comes. BTW, bustracker, no longer has a #173 route.

[Busjack]

.... Then you have all these North south routes like the #29, #34, #3 and #4. Would they all be extended to 115th and the #34 cut back? With the orange line bus changes, you know all the Pace routes except #386 will go back to the old pre 1993 alignments. It should be interesting to see where these will layover at. There going to be a lot of changes when the time comes. ...

I sort of thought about extending 3 and 4; 4 could be similar to the route prior to 1969, when most of the runs went to 115th but some were short turned at 94th. 3 would clean up some of the mess when it couldn't turn back at Chicago State, but clearly would be an extension from what it was even prior to 1969.

However, I don't see 29 and 34 being changed back to their pre-1969 status, in that 95th station provides a place for 29 drivers to relieve themselves (as well as get relief), and there is the essentially 29 only lane at the north end of the station. However, in my view, the only bus on S. Michigan would be the 34. Whether it would go all the way to Altgeld, or Altgeld would be served by my proposed 130th feeder, I don't know (I would bet on the latter). I also see 119 as being only the 119th bus, feeding into the 115th station.

With regard to Pace Southwest, I am surprised that they didn't go with the original plan for running 386 via 382 in Bedford Park, which would mean that all of the buses could terminate at Ford City. You are right that there would be no need for the current Pace practice of adding a half hour to the running time by going to Midway. At first, I thought that that was the only benefit of the Ford City proposal, but CTA has indicated others. I was somewhat surprised that the Kostner option was not selected, in that it would have better served Daley College.

[BusHunter]

I sort of thought about extending 3 and 4; 4 could be similar to the route prior to 1969, when most of the runs went to 115th but some were short turned at 94th. 3 would clean up some of the mess when it couldn't turn back at Chicago State, but clearly would be an extension from what it was even prior to 1969.

However, I don't see 29 and 34 being changed back to their pre-1969 status, in that 95th station provides a place for 29 drivers to relieve themselves (as well as get relief), and there is the essentially 29 only lane at the north end of the station. However, in my view, the only bus on S. Michigan would be the 34. Whether it would go all the way to Altgeld, or Altgeld would be served by my proposed 130th feeder, I don't know (I would bet on the latter). I also see 119 as being only the 119th bus, feeding into the 115th station.

With regard to Pace Southwest, I am surprised that they didn't go with the original plan for running 386 via 382 in Bedford Park, which would mean that all of the buses could terminate at Ford City. You are right that there would be no need for the current Pace practice of adding a half hour to the running time by going to Midway. At first, I thought that that was the only benefit of the Ford City proposal, but CTA has indicated others. I was somewhat surprised that the Kostner option was not selected, in that it would have better served Daley College.

It was probably better to go with the Cicero option because there would be more traffic there. However I wonder if crime might be an issue with places like Best Buy under an "L" track. But Cicero is wide and if they ran it down the median it would only at best cover the left SB/NB lane of traffic. Maybe if they installed a few police cameras and some bright lighting this may not be an issue. Going back to the Red line bus enhancements, the #29 could have a relief at 103rd/Michigan. They would have easy access to the through routed 103/106 that would be strictly a 103rd street bus route. Your right about the #119. There's no need to send it north. The biggest question would end up being by losing service on Michigan with the loss of 119 or 103 north of 103rd, would there be an overload of customers on that section of the street. The same would go for 95th which is pretty busy west of the Dan Ryan now.

[Busjack]

The biggest question would end up being by losing service on Michigan with the loss of 119 or 103 north of 103rd, would there be an overload of customers on that section of the street. The same would go for 95th which is pretty busy west of the Dan Ryan now.

One would assume that most of the bus riders would transfer to the Red Line at 103rd or 115th, instead of riding the bus up to 95th. That's sort of the same question as what would riders on Michigan-Indiana would do when the Garfield bus quit running downtown in 1969. In any event, one could run sufficient 34s to meet the residual demand. Similarly, one could run more 95Ws to meet the demand there (or go back to artics, as Krambles indicates it was in the 80s).

The more interesting question is how CTA would configure 8A and 108, including after the good assumption that Pace will be cutting back 352. North of 111, the Red Line would be close to Halsted, but not exactly there.

As far as Orange Line on Cicero, it might not be much different than all the ramps around the new Midway terminal at 57th.

[artthouwill]

With the Red Line extension, I believe the 104 Pullman could run a King Dr/Cottage Grove loop, 104C buses operate via Cottage and 104K buses operate via King Dr. The 111 would be a straight bus between Corliss and Pulaski. The 119 could operate as a loop along 119th and 115th, 115th station extending from 115th to Michigan Ave. 103rd would become one route between 112th/Avenue C and Pulaski. The 100 could return to its original routing. That leaves a 112 Vincennes between 111th and 95th. Because of Halsted's proximity to the extended Red Line with stops at 111th and 103rd, the 108 does not need to exist anymore. The 34 would remain unchanged. The King Drive portion of the old 353 would be replaced by the aforementioned 104 loop, the 352 and 359 would be shortened to 111th, the 353 shortened to 115th.

Thus a revised 95th station would be served by routes 3,X3, 29,34, 95E, 95W, 100, 104, 112, 381, 395. There is now enough room for a turnaround for the 3 and X3. Thus 95th station loses routes 103, 106, 108,119, 352, 353, 359.

[jajuan]

With the Red Line extension, I believe the 104 Pullman could run a King Dr/Cottage Grove loop, 104C buses operate via Cottage and 104K buses operate via King Dr. The 111 would be a straight bus between Corliss and Pulaski. The 119 could operate as a loop along 119th and 115th, 115th station extending from 115th to Michigan Ave. 103rd would become one route between 112th/Avenue C and Pulaski. The 100 could return to its original routing. That leaves a 112 Vincennes between 111th and 95th. Because of Halsted's proximity to the extended Red Line with stops at 111th and 103rd, the 108 does not need to exist anymore. The 34 would remain unchanged. The King Drive portion of the old 353 would be replaced by the aforementioned 104 loop, the 352 and 359 would be shortened to 111th, the 353 shortened to 115th.

Thus a revised 95th station would be served by routes 3,X3, 29,34, 95E, 95W, 100, 104, 112, 381, 395. There is now enough room for a turnaround for the 3 and X3. Thus 95th station loses routes 103, 106, 108,119, 352, 353, 359.

Though I don't see much wrong with proposals of what bus realignments could happen with the proposed rail extensions, we might want to be careful of what verbs we use regarding them since these are still proposals with nothing solidly set in stone. Even if funding is approved to move forward, any actual construction is still years away, and a lot can happen in those unspecified number of years. So it's probably better to say 'could' go to X, Y, and Z instead of would go. Many of the possibilities you all put forward do make a lot of sense though.

[New Flyer]

The Orange Line was only allocated enough money to run to Midway when it was built. The city

decided to take the money they could get just to get it built.

f you remember years ago the south termianl of the red line was to have had to terminals

103rd/Stony and 130th, but the Stony Island terminal; would cost to much money.

[decisivemoment]

The CTA releases are clear, while the press reports are not, is that the Board only voted that the three were the "locally preferred alternatives." Just about everyone reported that they have to go through environmental review and preliminary engineering before they can even apply for federal money to do actual construction.

The Blue Line ceased to be on the CTA's list of things to even include in the New Start Bill when the Metra Star Line was appointed the locally preferred alternative by the RTA about 5 years ago. Likewise, even though Lipinski Sr. was touting the Ogden-Carroll trolley, it appears that the only portion left is the Carroll connector, and that became a city project.

What was more surprising was that while the Circle Line got through the first two screens 3 years ago, it wasn't on this list, and according to its page, is going through another screen this fall.

The new downtown plan issued, if I recall correctly, earlier this year by the city specifically shows a Clinton Street subway veering off the Red Line at North/Clybourn and back on it again on the near South Side. This would have the benefit of connecting directly with Union and Ogilvie stations as well as providing probably a faster connection from the Red to the Blue/Green/Pink lines and vice versa. Perhaps the CTA is thinking in terms of doing Clinton Street first?

I think in practice the Clinton Street route probably should be done first. Circle Line won't work unless they have sufficient paths in the State Street tunnel during rush hour and the only way to achieve that is to find another place for Red Line trains to go. You could either have Red line trains alternating with Circle between State and Clinton, or move all Red Line trains to Clinton and run the Circle up the west side and down State.

[Busjack]

The new downtown plan issued, if I recall correctly, earlier this year by the city specifically shows a Clinton Street subway... Perhaps the CTA is thinking in terms of doing Clinton Street first?

I'm somewhat surprised that Clinton Street is on the city's list, but not on the CTA's. What you say, while surmise, does make sense.

[Busjack]

On the Chicago Plan Commission, there was a story in the Sun-Times today, which mentioned this project, as well as the currently moribund Airport Express. However, this just seems to be the usual Planning Commission stuff, in that "While the document includes cost estimates and plans for raising the money, it offers no funding guarantee. Individual projects may have to be deferred for years or may never happen." So, I doubt that the CTA would hold up the Circle Line just because of that, where the New Start program at least offers a glimmer of a funding source, if it gets through all the studies and wins the competition.

[Busjack]

As I predicted, the Yellow Line proposal ran into flack when hitting the Environmental Impact stage, for the reasons I stated (mostly appropriation of school property). Sun-Times.

I wouldn't be surprised if environmental concerns are are raised about the elevated portion of the Orange Line south of the rail yards.

Also, I'm surprised that the "locally preferred alternative" was criticized by the locals (including Skokie's mayor) when the CTA said that was the "locally preferred alternative." Apparently CTA's consultants goofed when they spent a couple of years studying this.

[Busjack]

To put in a better thread

I agree but if we don't get them I bet you won't see those rail lines exteneded or rail stations remodled, most of which are on the south side where exteneded rail service is way over due.

The Red Line extension is part of the New Starts, and should be progressing on that "track" based on its own merits. That's not to say that Congress couldn't make a special earmark, but I think it takes a leap of faith to say that the Olympics would induce it to do so.

Mayor Mumbles continues to associate something he calls "North South Transit" as part of the Olympics, which, in conjunction with saying that it connects the radial points of the current L system, sounds like the Mid-City transitway (i.e. the old Crosstown path near Cicero Ave. and 74th). He also makes occasional mention about Metra, such as feeding the Hyde Park-53rd station, but, as I previously said, it would be odd if the Olympics made him support Metra, which he does not control, or gets Mike Payne's Gray Line out of official ennui.Given the prior "Ask Carole" discussion, I don't even hear him pushing the Airport Express plan anymore, given that he said something about the mothballing was o.k because it would use obsolete switches.

[dreyday]

On my commute to howard today on the yellow line, i saw two new cars being delivered at the skokie shops. Is it possible the first cars of the 5000 series have finally arrived? I may have mistaken them for 3200's, but they were missing the furthest windows on the non cab side, between the door and motorman window.

[Busjack]

On my commute to howard today on the yellow line, i saw two new cars being delivered at the skokie shops. Is it possible the first cars of the 5000 series have finally arrived? I may have mistaken them for 3200's, but they were missing the furthest windows on the non cab side, between the door and motorman window.

That would be the distinctive characteristic, as one of the windows was supposedly replaced by an air duct for the brakes.

[BusHunter]

As I predicted, the Yellow Line proposal ran into flack when hitting the Environmental Impact stage, for the reasons I stated (mostly appropriation of school property). Sun-Times.

I wouldn't be surprised if environmental concerns are are raised about the elevated portion of the Orange Line south of the rail yards.

Also, I'm surprised that the "locally preferred alternative" was criticized by the locals (including Skokie's mayor) when the CTA said that was the "locally preferred alternative." Apparently CTA's consultants goofed when they spent a couple of years studying this.

Here's a link on the Skokie story from the local paper there. It goes into details of the project as well as the complaints. Reading this I was wondering where were all these people at the AA meetings, being that's where a route was chosen and method of service. Some of the complaints are from residents who claim to live too close to the project. (What did they do when the North Shore was passing at 60 mph?) Others are from people complaining about the multi story garage CTA wants to build at the terminal and the criminals going to Skokie Courthouse. (I wonder why they weren't concerned when they built a Skokie Courthouse? The same people are going to it now so what's the difference.) Also there's the sex offender at schools issue. (Tell that one to the kids school outside 54th/Cermak station.) I wonder what an environmental impact study has to do with the citizen's anyway. Wouldn't that be more scientifically based. I would think the citizen's only would be involved at the AA level.