New Eldorados?

[rotjohns]

Ohh No!!! Are you telling me that all the Orion VI's are leaving West soon, so it means that sooner that Northwest is going to be 100% of Orion VIs just like CTA Archer garage was 100% garage until the 500s Optimas came in?

NW won't be all Orions VIs unless they dip into SW, which won't happen anytime soon. There's not enough buses at West now to take out all the 93 Orions. But that could all change if some routes get eliminated via the budget hearings later this month.

BUT 6038 has been moved to NW also, it's on route 290 today.

[Busjack]

NW won't be all Orions IVs unless they dip into SW, which won't happen anytime soon. There's not enough buses at West now to take out all the 93 Orions. But that could all change if some routes get eliminated via the budget hearings later this month.

There is, first the question whether there are 93 Orions, as the budget says 70 of the 40 footers. Some of them were in the Ravinia lineup, and others have been advertised as sold. Of them, there are probably not more than 35 at NW.

There is the second question how many ElDorados Pace is getting, given that the ones in Joliet don't appear to be the 58 stimulus buses.

Also, NW won't be all Orion VIs (not IVs) because it has 2704-2707 ElDorados now, and has some routes (its share of 210, 422, 423, as well as the rest of 209, 234, and probably 240 and 241) that can use Eldorados.

I thought before this that there might be enough ElDorados to get rid of the remaining Orion Is, even before the Joliet swaps. If very many of the proposed cuts go through (i.e. there would be no need to replace the Orion Is at Academy if it is cut back to 600, 606, nor to replace the 2272s being used on the Westmont contract, if some of the 66X and 82x feeders are cut), IMO, Pace overpurchased Eldorados, even if it is only the 58 stimulus ones

Hence, I'll make bets that the Orion Is will be gone sooner than later.

[rotjohns]

There is, first the question whether there are 93 Orions, as the budget says 70 of the 40 footers. Some of them were in the Ravinia lineup, and others have been advertised as sold. Of them, there are probably not more than 35 at NW.

There is the second question how many ElDorados Pace is getting, given that the ones in Joliet don't appear to be the 58 stimulus buses.

Also, NW won't be all Orion VIs (not IVs) because it has 2704-2707 ElDorados now, and has some routes (its share of 210, 422, 423, as well as the rest of 209, 234, and probably 240 and 241) that can use Eldorados.

I thought before this that there might be enough ElDorados to get rid of the remaining Orion Is, even before the Joliet swaps. If very many of the proposed cuts go through (i.e. there would be no need to replace the Orion Is at Academy if it is cut back to 600, 606, nor to replace the 2272s being used on the Westmont contract, if some of the 66X and 82x feeders are cut), IMO, Pace overpurchased Eldorados, even if it is only the 58 stimulus ones

Hence, I'll make bets that the Orion Is will be gone sooner than later.

I changed it to VIs, I'm just gonna start saying 2000s Orions since I keep goofing them up...lol.

Nah those Joliet buses can't be the 58 from the stimulus and I don't think they are all out yet because Nabi 6670, 6674, and 6675 keep showing up on Webwatch still in Joliet. S. Holland had buses going up to at least 2765 so I'd have to think the rest will go NW or North Shore to be put on those routes Busjack mentioned. It could end up being an overpurchase UNLESS some of the 58 Eldos from the stimulus take out some 1999 Nabis. Of course that would be 35 footers if that's the case. I don't see that as likely though. OR some of them could end up SW. I'm just not a believer that all the SW routes need 40-footers. I do think that eventually, maybe within a year if not sooner, most if not all of the 2000 Orions from West will head to NW.

[PACE 834]

NABI's #6667 and 6626 will soon be going to West from South Holland,also@South Holland

NABI #6675. :mellow:

[Busjack]

NABI's #6667 and 6626 will soon be going to West from South Holland,also@South Holland

NABI #6675.

So by almost everyone's count, that dood it (i.e. completes the transfer of 6600s)?

I guess not; 6670 still shows up on Webwatch in Joliet.

[rotjohns]

So by almost everyone's count, that dood it (i.e. completes the transfer of 6600s)?

I guess not; 6670 still shows up on Webwatch in Joliet.

Not yet, 6674 is still there also along with 6670.

[PACE 834]

Not yet, 6674 is still there also along with 6670.

4 more NABI'S(6252,40',6668,6674,6675,35')are now@S.Holland.

[Busjack]

Pace finally explained what's going on:

Pace thanks Will County stakeholders for

support for capital improvements, rolls out

new and improved bus fleet

As mentioned in previous issues of Moving Forward, Pace will

benefit from the capital improvement plans passed by the

state legislature to the tune of $205 million over the next five

years. The funds are critical as Pace will gradually replace

older buses in its fleet while also adding passenger amenities

and making improvements to garages and facilities.

At Pace Heritage Division, which operates the routes serving

the Joliet area, capital investment has allowed the agency to

work toward replacing its entire fleet of 22 buses with new,

30-foot Eldorado E-Z Rider coaches that offer superior fuel

mileage, cleaner emissions, and reduced operating costs.

To thank legislators and other area elected officials and

stakeholders for their efforts and to showcase the vehicles

that resulted from their advocacy, Pace hosted a vehicle

dedication Monday at the Will County Office Building in

downtown Joliet. ...

"We want to not only thank our elected officials for their

leadership and efforts to invest in Pace capital, but take the

opportunity to show them the very real effects of those

efforts," said Pace Chairman of the Board Richard Kwasneski.

"These elected officials can feel proud that they've directly

improved the reliability of some of their constituents' access to

work, school, and other needs, while helping Pace reduce its

overall efficiency through reduced maintenance costs."

14 of the new buses are already operating at Heritage

Division, with eight more to come shortly. There are also

twelve new paratransit vehicles in operation in Will County.

The one in the picture was 2766. But, that would indicate 25 buses.

So, apparently not stimulus money, and apparently some sort of local or state money, although not clear what.

And, the above, and as Pace 834, indicate, the 40 footers are probably out of Joliet, too.

[rotjohns]

4 more NABI'S(6252,40',6668,6674,6675,35')are now@S.Holland.

Really? That's a surprise that 6252 is at S. Holland. So one is assuming that all those buses are heading to West? And what does that say about the 40-footers in Joliet? I'm now wondering if Joliet is clearing out all Nabis, no matter what size they are? And that probably means, assuming these buses head to west, more 2000 Orions are heading north?

Update: Never mind, Busjack beat me to it. Yeah, that's it for Nabis if they are replacing all the buses there. I must admit, I am surprised that the 40 footers are gonna be gone. That tells me ridership isn't heavy enough to warrant keeping them at Joliet. Interesting.

[Busjack]

Update:... I must admit, I am surprised that the 40 footers are gonna be gone. That tells me ridership isn't heavy enough to warrant keeping them at Joliet. Interesting.

I haven't been at Louis Joliet Mall, nor at the schools. However, Downtown Joliet doesn't give me the impression that it can support much bus service, at all. The couple of times I have been down there, there were people waiting for a bus at the courthouse, but it wasn't like the people were flowing en masse out of the courthouse or other buildings downtown at 5 p.m. and into the buses.

[rotjohns]

I haven't been at Louis Joliet Mall, nor at the schools. However, Downtown Joliet doesn't give me the impression that it can support much bus service, at all. The couple of times I have been down there, there were people waiting for a bus at the courthouse, but it wasn't like the people were flowing en masse out of the courthouse or other buildings downtown at 5 p.m. and into the buses.

I haven't been to Louis Joliet lately and have never been to the schools. The last time I was at that mall, there were a few people getting on, but not overwhelming. The only routes that might be of question as to whether 40 footers might be needed are the 501 and the 834. But seeing how there have been several Eldos on the 834 lately, I guess Pace is content to say people can stand if it's crowded during rush hour. I would also have to think that Pace took a good look at how many people were getting on the school trippers to see if a 40-foot Nabi was needed. Clearly, the answer is no.

[rotjohns]

4 more NABI'S(6252,40',6668,6674,6675,35')are now@S.Holland.

I'm curious to know why do buses head to South Holland first? Are they just inspected, prepped, and fixed so they can be transfered to other garages?

[rotjohns]

NABI's #6667 and 6626 will soon be going to West from South Holland,also@South Holland

NABI #6675.

Confirmed. 6626 is on the 318 today.

[PACE 834]

I'm curious to know why do buses head to South Holland first? Are they just inspected, prepped, and fixed so they can be transfered to other garages?

Basically what happens is they are reprogrammed to cover the routes handled by the garage

they are being sent to.

[rotjohns]

Basically what happens is they are reprogrammed to cover the routes handled by the garage

they are being sent to.

That tells me what I truly know about buses. I was under the impression that all Pace buses were already programmed so they can just go on to whatever garage they are heading to. In other words, if 6675 was in Joliet, why couldn't it just go straight to West unless there's a repair to do if all the routes in Pace's system was already programmed in each bus? Guess that's not the case. Probably would be an overload if it was.

[PACE NORTHWEST]

I just saw 2635 working route 529. Isn't 2635 a Highland Park bus? When did it get moved to Fox Valley?

[Busjack]

I just saw 2635 working route 529. Isn't 2635 a Highland Park bus? When did it get moved to Fox Valley?

Again, if you look back through this forum, 2635 was in a Tollway accident while being delivered, and did not make it to Highland Park. While Highland Park retained 6679 longer than other NABIs, it eventually got 2631 from Aurora, and when 2635 was fixed, it eventually went to Aurora. Put 2635 into the search box. Based on that, apparently NS had it for a while.

[PACE NORTHWEST]

Bus 6041 is now at the northwest garage working route 270.

[rotjohns]

Bus 6041 is now at the northwest garage working route 270.

That must mean 6040 is at NW also. There will be more Orion VIs at NW as the Nabis in Joliet will undoubtably head to West. I think eventually all the Orions from West will head NW.

[PACE NORTHWEST]

2600 is now at Highland Park working route 471.

[PACE 834]

So by almost everyone's count, that dood it (i.e. completes the transfer of 6600s)?

I guess not; 6670 still shows up on Webwatch in Joliet.

35'NABI(6670)is now also@S.Holland :mellow:

[rotjohns]

35'NABI(6670)is now also@S.Holland

I literally with my own physical eyes saw that bus on route 834 yesterday (10/15/09). That was fast! I believe that's it for the 35-footers in Joliet.

[Busjack]

Again, a little more clarification of this issue from the September minutes (including a few matters I asked Pace 834 about in a pm):

During August, the FTA released the $33 million stimulus grant to Pace. This allows Pace to purchase 58 transit buses and 192 paratransit buses. Delivery is projected for 2010. In addition, Pace is currently taking delivery of 25 transit buses purchased under a previous federal grant. Thirteen are delivered, with six of them in service at the Heritage facility in Joliet. All 25 buses will go to Joliet and the Joliet buses will go to contractors to replace 18 year old buses.

Of course, not all have gone to contractors, although Pace 834 reported that at least one will.

Also, if it was a federal grant, why was Pace smootching up to state officials in Moving Forward?

Apparenlty, Pace doesn't know where its buses are:

Director Wells asked about the new buses going to the North and Southwest garages. He understood that South had the oldest buses or the most mechanical problems. Mr. Ross responded that the South buses are only 10 years old whereas the North and Southwest buses are 18 years old.

Nope, it isn't Southwest, it's Northwest and North Shore.

[Busjack]

Although probably not conclusive (proving a negative, and some routes not showing up on WebWatch) today seems to be the first day when WebWatch shows only 2700s in Joliet. So, if they haven't reached that yet, they are close to it.

[rotjohns]

Although probably not conclusive (proving a negative, and some routes not showing up on WebWatch) today seems to be the first day when WebWatch shows only 2700s in Joliet. So, if they haven't reached that yet, they are close to it.

It won't be conclusive unless someone went down there to see for themselves physically since some routes are not on Webwatch. But the fact routes 501 and 834 are all Eldos, you'd have to think the Nabis are gone. Maybe Pace834 can give out the scoop of where 6250-6256 are. Actually 6252 we already know is heading West if it's not already there by now, so just 6250-1, & 6253-6.