trainman8119 Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 A thought has occurred to me. If the cuts were to take place, especially at Academy, that would mean there wouldn't be any more service to Harper College (currently served by 696 and 699). Wouldn't that make it the only community college that wouldn't have bus service? That would be a major hit for students there, I'd think. Why should Pace take into account anything when it comes to providing service ??? After all, aren't they a public entity ??? As far as they are concerned, they are an operation dedicated to lobbying government for funding (Rocky Donahue 2000) and not providing any service where and when it is needed. I am just surprised with there insistance on contracting work out that they would target routes that are contracted out vs routes that are operated in house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Why should Pace take into account anything when it comes to providing service ??? After all, aren't they a public entity ??? As far as they are concerned, they are an operation dedicated to lobbying government for funding (Rocky Donahue 2000) and not providing any service where and when it is needed. I am just surprised with there insistance on contracting work out that they would target routes that are contracted out vs routes that are operated in house. I think the point was more that a community college is assumed to be a traffic generator, because there are all the poor students who have to get there, and can't afford a car.* For instance, 208 goes off Golf to Oakton CC, but I don't know how many passengers board there. On the other hand, the Ray Hartenstein Campus (I actually met Ray) is on Lincoln, and 210 constantly is threatened, and its literature says that it is close to 97 and 226. but not really that close. Again, whether it had to do with chopping a division or contractor route, it seems like Pace focused on boarding statistics and the amount of money saved (in Academy's case, $1.87 million). The ME feeders are all on the block, even though they are now run by South Division. I suppose $2.5 million would have been saved if Northwest Division ran Academy's work that is now on the chopping block. But, probably for historical reasons and union contracts, I don't see, for instance, West Division bidding out work once handled by West Towns. ___________________ * The Olive-Harvey College advertisements on WYCC 20.1 stress that it has convenient public transportation, even though (other than 103rd reliefs) the only reason for 28 south of 95th and 106 is Olive-Harvey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 Today's Moving Forward said that the budget was approved, but The Board postponed taking final action on the service reductions that accounted for $3.8 million of the $6.5 million shortfall for Suburban Services. The Board directed Pace staff to continue working with communities and stakeholders on the development of alternatives, and present a revised plan at their December meeting. That means no final decision will come regarding proposed eliminations until December 2.It also mentions a Round Lake call and ride and improvements to Route 570, but apparently these are not the ICE ones, as it says the funds come from the feds and Lake County. Update: The Passenger Notice says ICE. I have a feeling that Pace doesn't know, or care, what money is for what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetroShadow Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Today's Moving Forward said that the budget was approved, but It also mentions a Round Lake call and ride and improvements to Route 570, but apparently these are not the ICE ones, as it says the funds come from the feds and Lake County. Update: The Passenger Notice says ICE. I have a feeling that Pace doesn't know, or care, what money is for what. Was approved last year. They're getting around to implementation at this stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Was approved last year. They're getting around to implementation at this stage. I had relied on that ICE list (to which you added the link) to support my prior point made a couple of months ago that up 'til then, nothing on it having to do with bus service had been implemented. Apparently, the last month and a half is different. However, that doesn't really contradict my point that when announcing projects, Pace is inconsistent in its pronouncements about the sources of the money. You have this example (one statement that it was federal money, and the later one saying ICE), Pace thanking state politicians for Joliet buses apparently funded by federal money, saying that stage 2 of the South Cook Restructuring was courtesy of Suburban Mobility funds, when that can't be used (legally) for fixed route buses, and instead of charging that restructuring to the South Cook fund, saying that that money was being used as a substitute for not getting discretionary funds from the RTA. Since Pace seems to be a lean operation, maybe using what money it can may be justified, but it isn't good accounting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 A thought has occurred to me. If the cuts were to take place, especially at Academy, that would mean there wouldn't be any more service to Harper College (currently served by 696 and 699). Wouldn't that make it the only community college that wouldn't have bus service? That would be a major hit for students there, I'd think. Chicago Breaking News noted, and the Pace Press Release states that the cutbacks are not as bad as first scheduled. In particular, CBN notes that there will still be service to Harper College, and the Press Release notes that Academy/Colonial won't be cut back to 600/606, but that 326, 696 and 697 will be on a reduced schedule, and 616 is completely saved (this time). It also looks like the Naperville feeders and 711 also get saved. Canning 535 indicates that they can't get passengers on an unmarked paratransit vehicle. Maybe that's evidence against my view that community transit might work. BTW, by my figuring, this only frees up about 6 or so buses. Also, Pace seems pretty honest about the reason for the deficit, unlike some people I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJL6000 Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 Canning 535 indicates that they can't get passengers on an unmarked paratransit vehicle. Maybe that's evidence against my view that community transit might work. With these forthcoming cuts, there will be only four bus routes which serve any part of DuPage County which will operate at all on weekends: 309, 313, 322 (Saturday and Sunday for the first three) and 834 (Saturday), the last three serving Yorktown Mall. Three of those routes originate from CTA rapid transit lines while the fourth originates from Joliet. (The 332 also enters DuPage County, but only on weekdays; that route remains entirely in Cook County on weekends.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MVTArider Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 I don't think NABI's are an automatic lock. I would consider seriously New Flyer in this mix. NF will take work to make up for delays in the CTA order. Also, 22 buses is a small order for 40 ft. buses, perhaps Pace will look to piggyback on another agency's order. I'm guessing they will go with a base order of 22 with options for more if this is a new contract. I'm assuming Pace will still go with the lowest bid. Gillig might be another possibility as they seem to like small orders and are usually competitive in pricing. One other thought, is there any way they could get Eldorado aXess 40 footers through some loophole in their current contract?* *I assume this is highly unlikely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 One other thought, is there any way they could get Eldorado aXess 40 footers through some loophole in their current contract?* *I assume this is highly unlikely. The current contract will be completely filled by the stimulus buses. In fact, my calculation is that the orders are for one more than the number of options. I'm sure whatever it is will be bid. However, with some cutbacks, they won't be needed as soon as thought, and the announcement also mentioned that some capital was being shifted to operating to save the routes. The only reason I mentioned NABI is that Pace hasn't considered them the anathema that CTA has (as indicated by the proposal to piggyback on the Metro 45Cs if they get the TIGER money for the Tollway plan). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotjohns Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 With these forthcoming cuts, there will be only four bus routes which serve any part of DuPage County which will operate at all on weekends: 309, 313, 322 (Saturday and Sunday for the first three) and 834 (Saturday), the last three serving Yorktown Mall. Three of those routes originate from CTA rapid transit lines while the fourth originates from Joliet. (The 332 also enters DuPage County, but only on weekdays; that route remains entirely in Cook County on weekends.) Dupage county really doesn't need bus service on the weekends unless it goes to Yorktown because many companies do not work on the weekends. Same as the North/NW suburbs. Personally, I think the only weekend service that's needed for Pace is anything connecting to CTA rail lines or a major shopping center. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotjohns Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 Chicago Breaking News noted, and the Pace Press Release states that the cutbacks are not as bad as first scheduled. In particular, CBN notes that there will still be service to Harper College, and the Press Release notes that Academy/Colonial won't be cut back to 600/606, but that 326, 696 and 697 will be on a reduced schedule, and 616 is completely saved (this time). It also looks like the Naperville feeders and 711 also get saved. Canning 535 indicates that they can't get passengers on an unmarked paratransit vehicle. Maybe that's evidence against my view that community transit might work. BTW, by my figuring, this only frees up about 6 or so buses. Also, Pace seems pretty honest about the reason for the deficit, unlike some people I know. And most of those buses that frees up will be in the south suburbs, which in turn will just put them amongst lighter routes and send more 40-footers into heavier routes. One example would be completely eliminating 35-footers on the 352, even during off-peak as I do see them over there on occasion. For the 637, many Wood Dale businesses have had layoffs or closed/moved so that's not a surprise. 643/645 being eliminated will send 2665 and 2666 over to route 319 or another light route. 654/657 were school buses from 1st student. 781 frees up an Eldo, but since the other Naperville routes are saved, the existing Orions at Naperville will likely stay as backups (for now). 690 does free up buses at NW, but since it's rush hour, it will only eliminate 1 or 2 Orions. Looks like the Orions are staying until new buses arrive in 2010. That'll make them 17 years old. Wow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 As far as freeing up buses, I am assuming that the bus count is driven by rush hour demand. Also, I am not assuming that all routes are independent; for instance the South feeders are done by 8 a.m. and probably are interlined with something else, although I haven't taken the time to trace that on WebWatch. 690 has been running ElDos, for the most part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJL6000 Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 Dupage county really doesn't need bus service on the weekends unless it goes to Yorktown because many companies do not work on the weekends. Same as the North/NW suburbs. Personally, I think the only weekend service that's needed for Pace is anything connecting to CTA rail lines or a major shopping center. Except that one of the three major shopping centers in DuPage County, the Westfield Fox Valley, has never had Sunday bus service since the formation of Pace. (The other two major shopping centers in DuPage County are the aforementioned Yorktown and the Oak Brook shopping center.) And with the only route serving that mall on Saturdays, the 535, being completely eliminated, this means that the only way to get to that mall on weekends without a private automobile would be the Metra Burlington Northern line plus a fairly long walk from the commuter rail station. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotjohns Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 Except that one of the three major shopping centers in DuPage County, the Westfield Fox Valley, has never had Sunday bus service since the formation of Pace. (The other two major shopping centers in DuPage County are the aforementioned Yorktown and the Oak Brook shopping center.) And with the only route serving that mall on Saturdays, the 535, being completely eliminated, this means that the only way to get to that mall on weekends without a private automobile would be the Metra Burlington Northern line plus a fairly long walk from the commuter rail station. Route 530 serves Fox Valley mall on Saturdays via the schedule. If anybody was needing to get to that mall, they can go to the Naperville Metra station and connect with that route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJL6000 Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 Route 530 serves Fox Valley mall on Saturdays via the schedule. If anybody was needing to get to that mall, they can go to the Naperville Metra station and connect with that route. Yes, I forgot about that. The forthcoming cuts make the 530 the only bus which operates into DuPage County but does not serve Yorktown which will continue to operate on Saturdays after the cuts get implemented. Plus, the elimination of 535 means that the 530 can now be operated with the ElDorados (or whichever regular buses the Fox Valley Division is equipped with) full-time instead of having to borrow unmarked paratransit equipment part of the time. As for the West Division (my home division), in addition to the aforementioned 643/645 (which will be completely eliminated along with the 767, which currently operates one trip in each direction on weekdays), the 304, 320 and 747 will have all weekend service eliminated (the 320 and 747 do not currently operate on Sundays), and the 747 will also operate on a reduced weekday schedule. However, the 302 and 315, which were originally slated to be operated on reduced Saturday schedules (as well as the weekday rush-hour-only 757, which was originally slated to be operated on a reduced schedule), ended up being left unchanged. Lastly, speaking of the two ElDorados assigned to the West Division (#2665 and #2666), I see them occasionally on the 301 and at least once on the 318. The appearance of an ElDorado on the 318 is very surprising given that the 318 is one of the busier routes in the West Division. However, that ElDorado that I saw on the 318 might have been on its way to the west terminal of the 319 (you see, the West Division often runs its drivers through two or more routes in a given work day, and Wolf/North in Northlake is a very convenient relief point for both the 318 and the 319). It should also be noted that of the nine weekend service eliminations, the Northwest Division's 209 will have its service eliminated on Sundays only. The 209 will operate Monday through Saturday after the cuts go into effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 Yes, I forgot about that. The forthcoming cuts make the 530 the only bus which operates into DuPage County but does not serve Yorktown which will continue to operate on Saturdays after the cuts get implemented. Plus, the elimination of 535 means that the 530 can now be operated with the ElDorados (or whichever regular buses the Fox Valley Division is equipped with) full-time instead of having to borrow unmarked paratransit equipment part of the time. As far as I know, 530 always uses ElDorados. My reference to the unmarked paratransit was to 535, which was instituted when 530 was rerouted to full time to Naperville, instead of some trips going from FVM around route 59. However, my point was that I couldn't figure out how someone transferring from 530 to 535 (if there was any) would know that that paratransit vehicle was 535, except that it was sitting at the FVM stop at the indicated time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJL6000 Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 As far as I know, 530 always uses ElDorados. My reference to the unmarked paratransit was to 535, which was instituted when 530 was rerouted to full time to Naperville, instead of some trips going from FVM around route 59. However, my point was that I couldn't figure out how someone transferring from 530 to 535 (if there was any) would know that that paratransit vehicle was 535, except that it was sitting at the FVM stop at the indicated time. That makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 I read on Pace's website that Routes #696 and #699 will be combined into a single route with #699 being completely eliminated. Does anyone know if there is a new route in the works?. Where will the route operate since theres service on both Roselle Rd and Meacham? And will there be service to Palatine or to Randhurst? Since Ive been off from Academy for the last few weeks Im out of the loop! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 I read on Pace's website that Routes #696 and #699 will be combined into a single route with #699 being completely eliminated. Does anyone know if there is a new route in the works?. Where will the route operate since theres service on both Roselle Rd and Meacham? And will there be service to Palatine or to Randhurst? Since Ive been off from Academy for the last few weeks Im out of the loop! I had to Google to find it, but it is in the Public Hearing Results (link). Unless either someone attended the hearing or the word gets to Academy first, I guess we will have to wait for the Passenger Notice to be posted (which it hasn't yet). All the news reports were that the main purpose was to save service to Harper College, but maybe there is some demand south of Woodfield. One thing on that list that I didn't think was brought up before is that the 747 experiment between Wheaton and St. Charles seems dead; only the part to the DuPage Courthouse was retained according to that notice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 I had to Google to find it, but it is in the Public Hearing Results (link). Unless either someone attended the hearing or the word gets to Academy first, I guess we will have to wait for the Passenger Notice to be posted (which it hasn't yet). All the news reports were that the main purpose was to save service to Harper College, but maybe there is some demand south of Woodfield. One thing on that list that I didn't think was brought up before is that the 747 experiment between Wheaton and St. Charles seems dead; only the part to the DuPage Courthouse was retained according to that notice. Working the #699, I can see the service south of NWTC to Elk Grove be eliminated. There are very, very few riders between NW Trans. and Arling. Hts Rd./Beisterfield. Its going to be interesting to see what will come out of this. I will certainly miss working the #699, I really enjoyed working that route. Out of all the routes I worked at Academy, #699 was hands down, my favorite route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 Working the #699, I can see the service south of NWTC to Elk Grove be eliminated. There are very, very few riders between NW Trans. and Arling. Hts Rd./Beisterfield. ... Is there much of any passenger traffic on the Palatine segment north of Harper? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJL6000 Posted December 19, 2009 Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 Working the #699, I can see the service south of NWTC to Elk Grove be eliminated. There are very, very few riders between NW Trans. and Arling. Hts Rd./Beisterfield. Its going to be interesting to see what will come out of this. I will certainly miss working the #699, I really enjoyed working that route. Out of all the routes I worked at Academy, #699 was hands down, my favorite route. In addition, another Academy route, the 326, will have its midday service eliminated, leaving that route to operate during weekday rush periods only. But I guess you knew that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 19, 2009 Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 Is there much of any passenger traffic on the Palatine segment north of Harper? Actually there is some passenger traffic who ride to the Palatine Metra in botrh directions. In addition theres some passenger traffic who board nb or sb buses from the station who are going to the Target/Jewel shopping area at Dundee Rd. and Hicks. The residences up at Dundee/Baldwin Rd. there are quite a few riders. Its from there we pick up quite a bit of passengers who ride to the Pala. Metra. There are quite a few students traveling to Harper from the north end of #699. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted December 19, 2009 Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 Actually there is some passenger traffic who ride to the Palatine Metra in botrh directions. In addition theres some passenger traffic who board nb or sb buses from the station who are going to the Target/Jewel shopping area at Dundee Rd. and Hicks. The residences up at Dundee/Baldwin Rd. there are quite a few riders. Its from there we pick up quite a bit of passengers who ride to the Pala. Metra. There are quite a few students traveling to Harper from the north end of #699. Although Pace hasn't said what it is going to do, the inference I get from what you say is that 696 will stay pretty much as is to Harper College, but will be extended into Palatine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted January 15, 2010 Report Share Posted January 15, 2010 The Passenger Notices are up. Notable: 301 and 302 get "service improvements" on Saturday, apparently making up for cutting 747 and 304, respectively. 302 was extended to Oakbrook.696 basically only changes the route between Woodfield and Harper to cover the NWTC and Roselle Road. Neither end of 699 (Elk Grove or Palatine) is preserved.The indication after the second round was the 626 would not be cut, but the last run (each way) was. Since Pace said that ridership would not be affected, the assumption is that the last run had no ridership.You have to love the euphemisms for supposed alternate service. The best one was on 422/423 "There are many other Pace and CTA routes in the north shore area." Maybe, but not near those routes. Of course, if there were that many riders to be inconvenienced, the routes would not have been cut on weekends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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