Buses/Routes at Archer Garage

[Busjack]

Well if there is to be no cuts, that would mean we still have 285 Flx's. That would really overcrowd the garages. I don't know if they could run what they have now in 7 garages. I believe in the past when a garage closed another temporary/new facility opened to help out. That was the case anyway with Lawndale garage IIRC. Also when Limits and Lawndale closed 7/2/94, Chicago opened. The same could be said for Beverly closing and 103rd opening (6/26/88) or 74th opening and 69th closing. (6/18/95) The only modern instance of a garage closing that I can think of without a replacement would be 52nd closing, (4/25/83) but 77th mostly took over that service IIRC, and they have over a 400 bus capacity.

Lawndale was considered the temporary garage when Kedzie or North-Cicero were closed for replacement (North Ave. not being directly replaced, but replaced by Chicago, because someone promised to redevelop North and Cicero about 10 years before it actually happened).

It is fairly well accepted that Limits was to be replaced by something near Elston and Diversey, except it was then decided that it wasn't needed. Somehow, new Kedzie or NP had enough room to accept most of its runs. Apparently, none of them (or at least the major ones, such as 8, 9, or various iterations of Wilson-LaSalle and Sheridan-Belmont) went to C.

I agree that closing Archer is inconsistent with keeping the 6000s, except the question is how far down either road the CTA has already gone.

[BusExpert32]

Well if there is to be no cuts, that would mean we still have 285 Flx's. That would really overcrowd the garages. I don't know if they could run what they have now in 7 garages. I believe in the past when a garage closed another temporary/new facility opened to help out. That was the case anyway with Lawndale garage IIRC. Also when Limits and Lawndale closed 7/2/94, Chicago opened. The same could be said for Beverly closing and 103rd opening (6/26/88) or 74th opening and 69th closing. (6/18/95) The only modern instance of a garage closing that I can think of without a replacement would be 52nd closing, (4/25/83) but 77th mostly took over that service IIRC, and they have over a 400 bus capacity.

Since North Park and 77th have very high garage capacity, I can see the 7 garage scenario with the Flxibles happening, but we just don't know if what was said about Archer is official.

[rideonrulez]

The cuts are slated for Feb 7, way before the spring. Would it make sense to have a pick and then turnaround and have another pick within a month's time?

It does'nt make sense but that is exactly what it is. There is a pick that goes in effect 12/20/09 Then there will be one (presuming that there are cuts) on 02/07/10.

[cta_44499_FG]

Archer is on the list, apparently, of historical sites. So CTA is seemingly stuck with it.

[Busjack]

Archer is on the list, apparently, of historical sites. So CTA is seemingly stuck with it.

1. Do you have any source for this assertion? If so, post a link.

2. As previously noted, CTA posted that it was for sale.

3. Historical preservation wouldn't prevent one from selling it. Ricketts bought Wrigley Field from the Tribune Co.

4. I cannot conceive any reason why a cookie cutter trolley barn of 1909 vintage (as I noted that there were about 10 of them, including the demolished Lawndale, Kedzie, North and Cicero, 69th, and Limits barns) would have any historical significance.

[cta_44499_FG]

4. I cannot conceive any reason why a cookie cutter trolley barn of 1909 vintage (as I noted that there were about 10 of them, including the demolished Lawndale, Kedzie, North and Cicero, 69th, and Limits barns) would have any historical significance.

ONE REASON: The track beds and turn tables for the old streetcars are still in place on the garage flooring.

[Busjack]

ONE REASON: The track beds and turn tables for the old streetcars are still in place on the garage flooring.

So, get an opinion from Blair Kamin or Lee Bey if that is of any significance. Especially if all the doors are closed and the buyer has to remediate the environmental conditions.

[artthouwill]

I think there is a difference between a historical site and a landmark. A historical site doesn't mean that the site in question can't be sold or even torn down and replaced. A landmark, however, must be somewhat preserved, with any tweakings approved before proceeding. Busjack referenced Wrigley, which is a landmark. The Cubs had to get permission to add to the bleachers. This isn't to say that a landmark can't be torn down, but it can't be torn down for the sake of building something new. The Cubs could possibly rebuild the inside of Wrigley, citing the safety of the interior of the structure, but maintain the facade of the building, much like the Bears landing a spaceship inside Soldier Field. But back to ARcher, the historical designation should not have any bearing on the sale of the property.

[cta_44499_FG]

End of an era forever:

http://www.transitchicago.com/news/default.aspx?CategoryId=2&&ArticleId=3134

[artthouwill]

End of an era forever:

http://www.transitchicago.com/news/default.aspx?CategoryId=2&&ArticleId=3134

The same was said for Lawndale, Limits, 52nd/Cottage Grove, and 69th/Ashland. At least Lawndale and 69th got replacements.

[Busjack]

The same was said for Lawndale, Limits, 52nd/Cottage Grove, and 69th/Ashland. At least Lawndale and 69th got replacements.

Not Lawndale. Chicago was theoretically the replacement for North and Cicero.

After 1973, Lawndale was just the stop gap garage for when Kedzie and Chicago were being built.

With Archer, the most that can be said is that it is the end of an era where politicians got their new buses first (at least both sets of 1000s).

[jajuan]

Not Lawndale. Chicago was theoretically the replacement for North and Cicero.

After 1973, Lawndale was just the stop gap garage for when Kedzie and Chicago were being built.

With Archer, the most that can be said is that it is the end of an era where politicians got their new buses first (at least both sets of 1000s).

while true, Chicago in a way was still a replacement for Lawndale in that the buses housed at Lawndale went to Chicago with some TMCs formerly at Kedzie also going to Chicago which in turn made some room for what former Limits D901s that went to Kedzie instead of Archer.

[Busjack]

while true, Chicago in a way was still a replacement for Lawndale in that the buses housed at Lawndale went to Chicago with some TMCs formerly at Kedzie also going to Chicago which in turn made some room for what former Limits D901s that went to Kedzie instead of Archer.

Personally, I am still waiting for the Roosevelt trolley bus to come back. It ended in 1973 about the same time as the Lawndale garage (noted in that New Looks about 1270 to 1300 all the sudden were intermixed with Kedzie's over 1300s), but reportedly it was based at Kedzie.

I also wonder what really was based at Lawndale at that time. Some sources say 58 and 60 were, but I seem to remember that those were propanes. Definitely 21, with the 600 series GMCs was.

[jajuan]

Personally, I am still waiting for the Roosevelt trolley bus to come back. It ended in 1973 about the same time as the Lawndale garage (noted in that New Looks about 1270 to 1300 all the sudden were intermixed with Kedzie's over 1300s), but reportedly it was based at Kedzie.

I also wonder what really was based at Lawndale at that time. Some sources say 58 and 60 were, but I seem to remember that those were propanes. Definitely 21, with the 600 series GMCs was.

Well by the time of its closure, I remember that 18, 21, 37, 50 (IIRC), 53, 54, and the 60 were based there as far as routes. And there was a brief time in 1994 and I believe 1995 that the 12 was placed there before returning to Kedzie shortly before or at the time of Lawndale's closure. I believe the 94 had returned to Archer from Kedzie at roughly the same time that the 12 started that short stint at Lawndale as I remember Kedzie Americanas covering the 94 as late as November/December of 1993 and Archer Fishbowls on the route when I returned to Chicago in 1994 from a year living in Champaign. Oh and it also was sharing the 82 with North Park. I almost forgot that.

[Busjack]

Well by the time of its closure, I remember that 18, 21, 37, 50 (IIRC), 53, 54, and the 60 were based there as far as routes.

Again, I think we are confusing dates. I am referring to 1973, and then 53 and 54 were trolley bus routes out of North and Cicero (at least on their last legs).