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New Flyer old style discontinued?


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http://www.newflyer.com

It appears from looking at the latest New Flyer website. It shows the only bus models available as the restyled. Advance BRT. And the Xcelsior. So it does appear that the old style New Flyer is no longer manufactured. I wonder how CTA is going to handle this? I know its going to effect MARTA, MBTA, London ON Transit, SEPTA, Via Transit, KC Metro, as well as Via Transit. And maybe SORTA. Depending on whether or not SORTA continues purchasing New Flyers or switches back to Gillig. SEPTA and MBTA im sure will both survive purchasing LFRs since SEPTA has 38 E40LFRs. And MBTA is getting 25 DE60LFRs next year. Then KC Metro I know is suppose to get 500 Orions in the near future and they got New Flyer DE60LFAs this year also for BRT use. So local KC Metro purchases. No telling what they will do. And other TAs who depended on the LF. Either they will switch to another source or purchase the LFR, Xcelsior, or BRT. My guess with CTA possibly the LFR.

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Undoubtedly depends on what the status of the so-called contract for the up to 900 is. One assumption is that there isn't a contract, in which case if CTA wants more buses to replace the Novas, they have to rebid. Then, it depends on what then is in the market from what bidder.

If, somehow, CTA signed the contract or gave notice to proceed tomorrow, then they would be built in accordance with that contract, unless you have a NYCTA situation where New Flyer said "we won't build high floor articulated buses any more" and apparently both sides walked away, or NF (appearing to be somewhat desperate) says they will provide the restyled bus at the same price.

I'm not sure of the technicalities of NF's bid bond, but if I were them, I would say that since the contract apparently hasn't been accepted for over a year, the offer is off the table. It doesn't do them much good to have a price structure based on the date of the notice to proceed, if there isn't a notice to proceed in the conceivable future.

As far as what CTA would take if it rebid, it probably would be the lowest bidder on its spec., but not NABI. That might get Nova back into the picture.

BTW, I'm not surprised by this apparent move by NF, in that Orion now only makes one model of transit bus.

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The old style has been around for about 20 years. As great as they look, its time to jump into the 21st century. I cant imagine the restyled version (not the BRT) costing that much more from a cost perspective.

I think that BC Transit in Victoria, BC Canada got their first orders of D40LFs back in 1989 (Retired). But I was wondering was between CTA and SEPTA got the last orders of D40LFs before Discontinued, anyone know?

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Since SEPTA is still under contract my guess is their 2010-2011 orders will also be old style end caps. The end of the old style only effects new contracts coming in. So SEPTAs next Articulated buses most likely will be DE60LFRs and the 2013 and up orders DE41LFRs. CTAs contract from what I read is over so it wont be long before CTA gets LFRs.

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... CTAs contract from what I read is over so it wont be long before CTA gets LFRs.

Not sure what "contract" you mean. If the contracts for the first 208 artics, that's done. However, as to "so it wont be long before CTA gets LFRs" the "won't be long" seems unlikely in that either the contract for up to 900 more exists and has existed, or there is no contract [more likely] and CTA won't be getting new buses until maybe 2013, and who knows what they will replace Novas with then? The only possible way that works out is that the service cuts are rescinded, the state capital bill money comes through, and the contract for the up to 900 is signed, and NF decides what buses to build to fulfill that contract. Too many contingencies upon contingencies for me to speculate on that.

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  • 11 years later...
On 11/20/2009 at 11:56 AM, Nabi60SFW9620 said:

Since SEPTA is still under contract my guess is their 2010-2011 orders will also be old style end caps. The end of the old style only effects new contracts coming in. So SEPTAs next Articulated buses most likely will be DE60LFRs and the 2013 and up orders DE41LFRs. CTAs contract from what I read is over so it wont be long before CTA gets LFRs.

Nope. LFR.

Funny story about that actually:

SEPTA came to NF requesting more of the old style buses for the 2010-11 order. NF said they don't make that style anymore but we can give you the LFR with the same basic body. SEPTA said ok cool. Jump ahead to 2012. SEPTA is getting the last 2 batches of LFR (220 altogether, #8340-8559) when they notice that MTA NYC is getting a batch of CNG buses from NF with what style? The old flat face! SEPTA was heated and basically said we ain't messing with them. So when it came time to get articulateds, they went to Nova for 245 buses, later increased by a 30-bus option to 275 (90 LFS HEV #8600-8689, and 185 LFSA HEV #7300-7484) and regretted life later as they have not fully performed up to standards.

The 2 butt buddies finally made up somehow in 2017 when SEPTA decided to buy 525 XDE40s (#3000-3524) to replace their 2001-2004 D40LFs (#5401-5600, 5613-5830, 5851-5950; gaps were from 2 orders of big battery DE40LF: 5601H-5612H from 2002, and 5831H-5850H from 2004).

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