Stopping at a green light?

[dauber]

I checked the threads and did a search and was surprised to see no mention of this before, but...

Apparently it's not uncommon for a bus to pull away from a bus stop, then come to a complete stop at an intersection where the light is STILL GREEN. I know the Lawrence bus does this a LOT a few blocks east of Western (often caused me to miss my connection to the #22 bus)...

So....why??? I was so tempted to ask the driver once but I didn't want to get snapped at for talking to the driver or telling her how to do her job....

[Chicago13]

I checked the threads and did a search and was surprised to see no mention of this before, but...

Apparently it's not uncommon for a bus to pull away from a bus stop, then come to a complete stop at an intersection where the light is STILL GREEN. I know the Lawrence bus does this a LOT a few blocks east of Western (often caused me to miss my connection to the #22 bus)...

So....why??? I was so tempted to ask the driver once but I didn't want to get snapped at for talking to the driver or telling her how to do her job....

I've always thought they do it to kill time because they're a head of schedule.

[Railwaymodeler]

Very possibly could be because the bus is running ahead of schedule. Pace buses at least, have an IBS system (Intelligent Bus System) that shows the driver, among other things, how far ahead or behind they are.

Usually if they are running ahead, they can be in some trouble if they pass a scheduled time point before they are supposed to. So then they have to pull over until the IBS shows 'On Time' or a few seconds down.

[sw4400]

I've always thought they do it to kill time because they're a head of schedule.

Most likely the case, but they should curb the bus. I was on the #11 a week or so back and at Irving Park heading north, the driver announced to us that he was early, so we would be sitting for 2 minutes, and we sat at the bus stop for two light cycles before we continued on.

[Zol87]

I saw the Lawrence bus doing this yesterday when I was by the Kimball Brown Line.

[artthouwill]

While being ahead of schedule is one possible reason for stopping, I'd like to offer a different reason.

If the intersection has one of those infamous cameras that nab red light runners, a bus will sit if the driver deems that it is too much of a risk to start across the intersection only to have the light change on him while driving through. In the suburbs, a yellow light stays yellow for about 5 seconds before turning red. In Chicago proper however, the cycle is only 3 seconds. If you enter the intersection on yellow, it is like running a red light. So if a driver is sitting at a light (or has just loaded/unloaded) and the blinking walk signal is blinking don't walk (or even has a countdown timer), most drivers would rather sit through the light rather than chance being caught on candid camera. Those tickets are not cheap.

[Chicago13]

While being ahead of schedule is one possible reason for stopping, I'd like to offer a different reason.

If the intersection has one of those infamous cameras that nab red light runners, a bus will sit if the driver deems that it is too much of a risk to start across the intersection only to have the light change on him while driving through. In the suburbs, a yellow light stays yellow for about 5 seconds before turning red. In Chicago proper however, the cycle is only 3 seconds. If you enter the intersection on yellow, it is like running a red light. So if a driver is sitting at a light (or has just loaded/unloaded) and the blinking walk signal is blinking don't walk (or even has a countdown timer), most drivers would rather sit through the light rather than chance being caught on candid camera. Those tickets are not cheap.

Not likely. Red light cameras are triggered by sensors in the pavement and only go off if a driver enters the intersection after the light has already turned red. If the driver entered while light is still green or has already turned yellow, he's allowed to proceed. Entering an intersection on the yellow is not a red light violation.

Besides bus drivers sitting at the green light has been going on for years..long before there such a thing as a red light camera.

[jajuan]

Not likely. Red light cameras are triggered by sensors in the pavement and only go off if a driver enters the intersection after the light has already turned red. If the driver entered while light is still green or has already turned yellow, he's allowed to proceed. Entering an intersection on the yellow is not a red light violation.

Besides bus drivers sitting at the green light has been going on for years..long before there such a thing as a red light camera.

This is true. I remember seeing CTA drivers since my childhood when the fishbowls were still just a few years old. Being ahead of schedule is the more likely reason.

[dauber]

Not likely. Red light cameras are triggered by sensors in the pavement and only go off if a driver enters the intersection after the light has already turned red.

Well...that's how they're supposed to work...one day I was standing on the corner of Peterson and Western waiting for the 49B and saw the camera flash at traffic right in the middle of a green light.

[RW 77 Operator]

it's a combination of both. good way to end up in a manager's office getting charged with violatins are running hot (ahead of schedule) and red lights. i'm not familiar with the Pace IBS, but we use Clever Devices AVL on cta. it's similar in that it shows timepoint positions (early, on schedule or late). very important not to run ahead of schedule. most important not to run any lights. we are taught to proceed on 'fresh' lights (green with a walk signal) for the ones that are not so fresh (green with flashing don't walk) we are advised to wait those out. operators can do as they please, but it's cta's position that we go through one at our own peril.

[Railwaymodeler]

Just for clarification, the Pace IBS system is officially called the Siemens Transitmaster.

I even have the operators manual for it here at home.

[sw4400]

How about stopping at a RED light? Yesterday, I got off a NB Lincoln Bus crossed to the other side of the NB side of Lincoln and got ready to cross to the SB side of Lincoln on my walk signal, which came on when the Lincoln light went red... Well, if I didn't look to the left before crossing, I'd be in the hospital or worse... as the CTA Bus I just got off of took off on said RED light and nearly hit me!!! Maybe my next course of action was right, maybe not... but I called the 888 CTA number, got transferred to the North Park Garage Manager and complained about what was almost a serious incident. Now I hope... at worst... the Operator just got suspended for this, as I hate to be the cause of terminating someone's job. Was I right in reporting this???

[Busjack]

How about stopping at a RED light? ... Was I right in reporting this???

On a concerned member of the public basis, yes. In fact we had the prior discussion about whether CTA was disciplining drivers who had red light camera violations. There was also the discussion about the Fox Chicago report a couple of years ago about drivers blowing through red lights downtown. Obviously, the supervisor can't deal with the dangerous driving issue if someone doesn't report it.

If there is a problem with the way the supervisor handles it, it isn't your problem, as there are union grievers.

[Guest]

I checked the threads and did a search and was surprised to see no mention of this before, but...

Apparently it's not uncommon for a bus to pull away from a bus stop, then come to a complete stop at an intersection where the light is STILL GREEN. I know the Lawrence bus does this a LOT a few blocks east of Western (often caused me to miss my connection to the #22 bus)...

So....why??? I was so tempted to ask the driver once but I didn't want to get snapped at for talking to the driver or telling her how to do her job....

This happens anywhere on the CTA bus system. In my CTA days Ive had to "kill time" as we call it on quite a few routes because we sometimes arrive to our timepoint early, "timepoint" meaning the operators reference point on his printed run "paddle" or schedule. CTA drivers are not allowed to arrive at their timepoints early, they can be reprimanded for this. So a driver will sometimes have to slow it down, not because he is trying to get a rise out of the passengers but because he has to stick to his time schedule. If the early timepoint arrival were to continue on a drivers run he then may end up arriving to the next time point early and the next and so on eventually arriving early to the end of the line where there could be a CTA supervisor or manager there. This sort of thing happens because of either less traffic, school kids on vacation, some holidays, or the result of an operator that may have been careless in watching his time. Either way theres no reason to confront a driver over this, its not going to make the operator arrive to your destination any quicker. Whatever you do, my advice is, dont confront the driver!. You can ask the driver whats the reason for the slowdown, but dont be confrontational about it! Just let the bus driver do his job, thats all!

[Guest]

Very possibly could be because the bus is running ahead of schedule. Pace buses at least, have an IBS system (Intelligent Bus System) that shows the driver, among other things, how far ahead or behind they are.

Usually if they are running ahead, they can be in some trouble if they pass a scheduled time point before they are supposed to. So then they have to pull over until the IBS shows 'On Time' or a few seconds down.

CTA's destination sign reader also displays an operators time data, whether ahead or behind schedule.

[Guest ctafan630]

In regards to the red light cameras, if a CTA bus driver does accidently run a RLC and gets a ticket, does the ticket go to the driver or the CTA? I thought I read somewhere the driver no longer is responsible for paying the ticket.

[sprout78]

In regards to the red light cameras, if a CTA bus driver does accidently run a RLC and gets a ticket, does the ticket go to the driver or the CTA? I thought I read somewhere the driver no longer is responsible for paying the ticket.

That is correct, according to Tribune Article bus driver unions pressured this change. However in theory they have some sort of discipline action internally.

Also on a side note, I don't recall or know the run or operator, but often I get a driver on the 80, who will from Irving Park Blue line to Western constantly use the horn at every auto, person or bicyclist she sees in her way driving 'fast' cutting people off etc. If you're waiting for a bus and don't actively indicate to her you want on, she will pass you by. However once we reach Western she will sit for a good 5 - 10 min as I assume she's too far ahead of schedule.

[artthouwill]

In regards to the red light cameras, if a CTA bus driver does accidently run a RLC and gets a ticket, does the ticket go to the driver or the CTA? I thought I read somewhere the driver no longer is responsible for paying the ticket.

I overheard a couple of drivers talking the other day, one of which believes he was photographed running a red light at 31st and King Drive. According to the other driver, CTA must notify him of the violation within 30 days, otherwise they could not take any action against him.

Most companies require the DRIVER to pay "moving violations" and pay parking tickets unless those come within the function of performing their duties. For instance a charter bus driver is parked in front of a hotel and goes inside to get his group. When he returns outside, a police officer or traffic officer is writing a parking ticket. This ticket would be paid by the company as the driver is performing the duty he was expected to perform.

As I stated before, besides being ahead of schedule, I believe the fear of being photographed and ticketed for running a red light is a major factor in buses stopping at green lights.