Pace Routes for 30-footers

[rotjohns]

I decided to start this topic and get some opinions. I'm just curious to know which routes in the entire Pace system that that should easily get away with 30-foot buses and simply don't need anything larger than that due to lower ridership. I'll put my 2 cents in & say for sure, the 302. I was behind a bus running that route yesterday during rush hour and saw it again during midday and I probably saw about 10 people on one rush hour bus and about 6 on a non-peak.

[RJL6000]

I decided to start this topic and get some opinions. I'm just curious to know which routes in the entire Pace system that that should easily get away with 30-foot buses and simply don't need anything larger than that due to lower ridership. I'll put my 2 cents in & say for sure, the 302. I was behind a bus running that route yesterday during rush hour and saw it again during midday and I probably saw about 10 people on one rush hour bus and about 6 on a non-peak.

You know, given Pace West Divion's running of that route, prudence dictates using their 35-foot 6600-series NABIs on that route because they have the exact same number of seats as the 30-foot ElDorados (27). But it also seems like West is also using some of their 35-footers for even high-ridership routes such as the 307. This is because way too often West has been putting 40-footers on some of the lower-ridership routes with little regard to the expected passenger loads on each trip.

For comparison, Pace's current 40-foot low-floor buses also have fewer seats than the average 40-foot low-floor bus: The Orion VI's seat 35, while the 40-foot NABIs (those in the 6162-6322 group) seat 34. The typical 40-foot low-floor bus seats 39.

[artthouwill]

You know, given Pace West Divion's running of that route, prudence dictates using their 35-foot 6600-series NABIs on that route because they have the exact same number of seats as the 30-foot ElDorados (27). But it also seems like West is also using some of their 35-footers for even high-ridership routes such as the 307. This is because way too often West has been putting 40-footers on some of the lower-ridership routes with little regard to the expected passenger loads on each trip.

For comparison, Pace's current 40-foot low-floor buses also have fewer seats than the average 40-foot low-floor bus: The Orion VI's seat 35, while the 40-foot NABIs (those in the 6162-6322 group) seat 34. The typical 40-foot low-floor bus seats 39.

Part of the reason is just plain bad decision making, but Pace West also has some interesting interlining which can cause some interesting scenerios. The way the schedule works out for Rt 318, this route seemingly always interlines with something, mostly 320. I've seen a 305 interline with a 315, which also interlines with the 320. Some 747s interline with other routes. Rt 307 really should never see a 35ft bus. If anything, most Pace SW routes should have short buses (except 381, 383, 386)but someone over there must really love the Orions.

I believe Pace should be looking for more 40 ft buses and the Eldorados and phase out the 35 ft NABIs.

[Busjack]

To get back to the point:

With the two shifts of Joliet 40 footers to NS, NS doesn't need any more 40 footers, even now considering the Nova Classics, which don't seem to get out, and the 4 or so Orion I 40 footers that do.

At NW, there are already indications that 209, 210, 234, 422 (their share), and 423 (their share) are going all 30 footer, and once the stimulus buses arrive, no indication why 221, 230, 326, and 696 can't. Some other routes (such as 240, 241, 272) are dropped from immediate consideration, because they interline with 270 at Golf Mill.

RailwayModeler can tell us what the situation is at North, but it looks like (from indications about rehabs and the like) that they are keeping their 2400s until the end.

SW could use them, but the question is whether they would send any 6000s to NW.

First Student/Westmont: Only question there is whether Orion Is get replaced by 6600s or new Eldorados.

South: Arguably for routes centered in Chicago Heights, such as 357, 362, 366, 367, 372;, also 354 and 356, but, as in the cases of West and North, no real indication that they want to send them there, as opposed to NABI 35 footers.

Of course, this discussion gets cut back, because other than Waukegan, the collar cities are all Eldo already (except perhaps for 6614).

[rotjohns]

To get back to the point:

With the two shifts of Joliet 40 footers to NS, NS doesn't need any more 40 footers, even now considering the Nova Classics, which don't seem to get out, and the 4 or so Orion I 40 footers that do.

At NW, there are already indications that 209, 210, 234, 422 (their share), and 423 (their share) are going all 30 footer, and once the stimulus buses arrive, no indication why 221, 230, 326, and 696 can't. Some other routes (such as 240, 241, 272) are dropped from immediate consideration, because they interline with 270 at Golf Mill.

RailwayModeler can tell us what the situation is at North, but it looks like (from indications about rehabs and the like) that they are keeping their 2400s until the end.

SW could use them, but the question is whether they would send any 6000s to NW.

First Student/Westmont: Only question there is whether Orion Is get replaced by 6600s or new Eldorados.

South: Arguably for routes centered in Chicago Heights, such as 357, 362, 366, 367, 372;, also 354 and 356, but, as in the cases of West and North, no real indication that they want to send them there, as opposed to NABI 35 footers.

Of course, this discussion gets cut back, because other than Waukegan, the collar cities are all Eldo already (except perhaps for 6614).

I've honestly never understood what West is doing as I used to live along the 309/313 route off of Lake street. But that's another story. To follow up on what Busjack is saying, once the rest of the 58 stimulus buses come later this year, one would think they will head for NW and NS. I can't see Pace sending brand new buses to 1st Student even though none of those routes need Nabis at all. Totally agree with 326 and 696 (saw an Orion VI on 696 Thurs at Schaumburg, 2 people was on it). And I've said before, SW definitely could use them, 379 is hit or miss, 381 needs to stay 40-footer, 382 should be an Eldo, 383 is also hit or miss, 384 should be an Eldo, 385 and 386 should be 40-footers, and of course the UPS bus should be 40-footers always.

Last time I was in Waukegan, there were nothing but 2400s, I didn't even see any 93 Orions running. If anything, 6600s would go up there if any of their buses quit.

I don't get to South all that much so I don't know, only time I get there is when I see 352 (which probably needs a 60-footer ) or 359. If Pace were to send the Eldos there, then where do some of the 40-foot Nabis go?

[Busjack]

I can't see Pace sending brand new buses to 1st Student even though none of those routes need Nabis at all.

Of course, First Student has 3 for Hinsdale, on the same contract as the other 66Xs, and 29 in their Naperville branch, so no reason to write them off.

Last time I was in Waukegan, there were nothing but 2400s, I didn't even see any 93 Orions running. If anything, 6600s would go up there if any of their buses quit.

The question, raised by RailwayModeler and WebWatch is basically the school runs, when the Orion Is are now used.

I don't get to South all that much so I don't know, only time I get there is when I see 352 (which probably needs a 60-footer ) or 359. If Pace were to send the Eldos there, then where do some of the 40-foot Nabis go?

Implied by my previous sentence. However, the Chicago Heights locals (I am excluding 352 and 358) now mostly run 35 foot buses, so I'm not implying sending 40 footers from S. I did imply sending them from SW or W, in the latter case, given the unknown about how that 10 or so 6600s sent from Academy to their yard are to be used. However, as I also said, since N and S didn't seem to get Eldos up to now, and W got rid of theirs (at least 2666), I'm not putting money on them getting any this time around. I, of course, don't have any inside on any of that.

[qwantae]

This morning on webwatch, I saw an 30 foot bus #2768 on 270- Milwaukee route. Now that is very rare and it should be all 40-foot bus and one of the heavy routes from NW division.

[Busjack]

Someone has posted that sighting every day. Based on that I saw 2768 on 241 on Webwatch about an hour ago, whoever posted that it must be on an interlined route must be correct (turns out it was BusExpert)

Sort of kills my theory that a route interlined with 270 wouldn't get an Eldo.

[Guest]

Someone has posted that sighting every day. Based on that I saw 2768 on 241 on Webwatch about an hour ago, whoever posted that it must be on an interlined route must be correct (turns out it was BusExpert)

Sort of kills my theory that a route interlined with 270 wouldn't get an Eldo.

Lately, including this morning, Ive been noticing 30 footers on the 230.

[BusExpert32]

Someone has posted that sighting every day. Based on that I saw 2768 on 241 on Webwatch about an hour ago, whoever posted that it must be on an interlined route must be correct (turns out it was BusExpert)

Sort of kills my theory that a route interlined with 270 wouldn't get an Eldo.

Your theory was an appropriate one. Putting 30 foot buses without rear doors on the 270 means trouble. This will probably continue until Pace gets a lot of complaints.

[Busjack]

Your theory was an appropriate one. Putting 30 foot buses without rear doors on the 270 means trouble. This will probably continue until Pace gets a lot of complaints.

Of course, since it is mid-morning, not rush hour, might not be such a big deal. The bus seemed off the chart at noon.

In fact, what might be the issue is whether someone flagging down a blue bus on Milwaukee Ave. (say in front of Jerry's) thinks it is a Niles Free Bus and won't pay the fare.

[BusExpert32]

In fact, what might be the issue is whether someone flagging down a blue bus on Milwaukee Ave. (say in front of Jerry's) thinks it is a Niles Free Bus and won't pay the fare.

That's happened a few times on Harlem where routes 411 and 423 both run.